Tried AA again and failed
 

So, I tried going to another AA meeting, and I tried to keep an open mind. After I was given my 2-year chip (8 months late), I heard this:

"RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."

So, just a few moments earlier someone stated that the only requirement is a desire to quit drinking, and then this comes along and tells me that if I don't fully follow the path I am probably "constitutionally incapable of being honest" or "suffer from grave emotional [or] mental disorders..."

It continues:

"Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps."

I'm not sure I want what you have. Lots of you guys seem stuck and miserable. I favor recovery without delusions.

It continues:

"Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.

"Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.

"Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon."

So, the only requirement is a desire to quit drinking, but if I don't "let go absolutely," find God, and ask "His protection and care with complete abandon" I am pretty much doomed to fail. I believe I'm being told I'm taking "half measures."

No thanks. I started with Step 12 (meditation), I've done most of the other steps in my own way, I am solidly clean and sober for 32 months now, and I am more honest and grounded then I've ever been. I have faith in my ability to continue my recovery without AA.

I post this for those of you who have felt shamed or guilt-tripped or otherwise insulted by AA literature and the meetings it produces. If AA works for you, then keep going to meetings, but know that it is not the only way.

The key, though, is to have a plan and have support. We need resources and we often need help, but I have learned that many of us do just fine without God or some so-called Higher Power. I go to an AA meeting every six months or so, mostly because I know very few sober people and would like some community, maybe find some sober musicians to jam with, but I always walk away with the same sense of WTF.

Fact -- AA is not for everyone.
Many recover who have never attended a meeting.
Some will sober up at home.
Some will sober up on this site.
Some will sober up in church.
And some will never sober up.

I attend AA but, do not buy into everything I hear there.

MM

That's about where I wound up. ;) Fortunately there are many paths to the same goal, abstinence, that we can follow. If one path does not work, it doesn't mean we are constitutionally incapable of being honest, it just means we need a different path.

did you read the part where it says 12-step programs are off-topic here?

the point of this secular forum is to speak about what secular stuff has worked for you, is working for you now, what you have questions about et cetera.

i fail to see the helpfulness in a "wtf" post about a program that's clearly not part of a secular approach.

maybe re-check your motives?

I walked away each time with that same sense of WTF. :) It's just not for everyone. And I am sure, for myself, if I'd been in CA or NYC, it's quite possible I would've found some great meetings with like-minded, but I'm just not in an area that's conducive to attracting a truly diverse crowd.

I walked away with zero guilt, and with a great sense of hope. I believe our motivations to get sober and to work on our own recovery in the ways that make sense to us is what's important. I knew there were multiple ways and means.

I guess I missed that about AA being off topic. No, I know my motives. From what I can tell, AA does about as much damage as it does good. It concerns me. Dee can move or remove tHis thread.

"No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members... Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member...."

We are all passionate in our own way about recovery from a severe life-threatening medical condition, and that passion has many different forms that are all OK. It can be empowering to finally understand that failure on one path does not preclude others.

I moved the thread to this forum so you can have a discussion. Stay within the rules though.

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This is a long and dense Read. It systematically examines Variables for Recovery approaches that work.

Pithy Anecdotes that Folks try to extend to General Truths didn't get me Sober. Digging in past false assumptions to formulate a sound Recovery Program free of Mysticism did. Facts matter. Getting on SR daily was pivotal to my Recovery.

' Alcoholism Treatment In The United States' ~ niaaa.nih.gov -
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Right next to the description of this forum is the name of the moderator. That's me. So feel free to PM me with issues, I try to move the threads but sometimes Morning Glory beats me to it.

Thanks MG. Don't know I missed this thread.

From the instructions on Secular If this thread doesn't quickly get more positive I'm pulling out my old dusty lock

Zero I think you might be jumping to some incorrect conclusions. Please bare with me as I suggest some another ways of looking at things.

You state "So, just a few moments earlier someone stated that the only requirement is a desire to quit drinking, and then this comes along and tells me that if I don't fully follow the path I am probably "constitutionally incapable of being honest" or "suffer from grave emotional [or] mental disorders..."

The only requirement (for membership) is a desire to stop drinking. You left out the 'for membership' part. You seem to imply that this "only requirement" has something to do with the steps. It does not. It just means you can say you are a member of AA if you have a desire to stop drinking. Period. That's it. Don't link it to anything else. They are not connected.

Next is the conclusion that it "tells me that if I don't fully follow the path I am probably "constitutionally incapable of being honest" or "suffer from grave emotional [or] mental disorders...". Well, not exactly. The idea is that if you have decided to try the AA program (the 12 steps), and are not honest with yourself, then you will have difficulty staying sober (based on your own self deception while attempting to get sober through the use of those 12 steps). Self deception will interfere with your ability to stay sober. A simple example would be saying to yourself "I can just have one drink, I can control my drinking". This would be an alcoholics self deception regarding step one.

As for feeling "shamed... guilt-tripped or otherwise insulted by AA literature and the meetings" I find myself wondering how you could feel badly after attending a meeting if in fact you don't want what the people there have? At worst the readings and what is said there should just be irrelevant, particularly if your goal was to "maybe find some sober musicians to jam with".

Speaking with people before or after the meeting might be a better time to do that. People attending the meetings are typically seeking to get or receive help with their drinking. It's clear that's not the reason you were there.

Given the title of this thread and your motivation for attending, I'd have to say you were not "trying" AA again. You failed only if you did not find someone sober to jam with, but I do hope you found someone.

Zero AA is a suggested program so take it or leave it , no ifs no buts dead simple .

Stevie recovered 12 03 2006

I left AA meetings about 1.5 years ago because I to saw where it was doing more harm than good. That being said, I still need some sort of support in the form of sharing partners, second hand feedback and sounding boards to bounce ideas off of.

Some of that I get on-line in forums but some of it I need in f2f meetings such as; coffee shops, meetings or fellowship in restaurants. I was lucky enough to find an alternate fellowship local to me but I recognize that not everyone has that option. My advice to you is avoid meetings that disturb your peace of mind but keep seeking out others that do "more good good than harm".

S.R. will not let me link to other commercial sites but check out the website that rhymes with beat-ups. :lmao:

Great post Zero. I so agree. Tried my best but AA really is just a christian cult. I am very glad it works for so many people. I do not knock it. I just can never be comfortable there. God keeps getting in the way and then I lose interest. This site on the other hand seems to be the whole nine yards. Provides for everyone with no strings attached or pre-conceived notions.

Darwinia where do you get your information ? in Alcoholics Anonymous the members get to choose or select a Power greater than themselves or God as they ''understand '' and AA is not allied to any sect or denomination as it states in the AA preamble and also in the Traditions . It seems'' you view God as Christian '' not AA , unfortunately alcoholics are notorious for blaming anything or anyone for their own failures . AA is a ''suggested program '' take it ? or leave it ? .

Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 .

Sorry I brought it up. I've tried to be open to it because it's the only option within 100 miles. Regardless of what happens in meetings, the literature alone puts me off. I read the Big Book, and the How It Works stuff I referenced above just set me off at the meeting. Debating the pros and cons of AA is just too much like debating Biblical scripture. People see what they see and the contradictions are too much. Nuf said for my part. I'll try again to refrain...

I was in a crisis of faith when I did AA. My sponsor told me to pray, send up thoughts to the universe etc to find a power greater than myself. And I did and thought. A lot. Then one day I had just hung up the phone from my physicist mother and it hit me Booom! The big bang. Now if that explosion isn't a power greater than me nothing is. And we (the earth and all life aboard our planet) is still being pushed away from that center cluster of mass. So that was my Higher Power. Although I'm religious now, I work a secular program SMART, and still spend time meditate on that wondrous power that helped me get and stay sober.

Awuh1, this is a big, judgmental leap. I mentioned "maybe" connecting with musicians or at least finding some community. I'm admittedly a little lonely. Much of your response was way off base. We misunderstand each other. It's happened in the past. Like I said, I tried to go with an open mind until I heard this:

"RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average."

It's like saying it's all or nothing or you're somehow incapable and doomed to fail, and I find it narrow and insulting. So, I guess I won't get to heaven cuz I don't believe, AND I won't recover because I'm not 100% on board. Give me a break.

Thanks, but the link failed.

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Sorry that NIAAA Link didn't work for ya...

I just clicked on that Link in both my Post #9, and in your quoted section of my Post in your Post #20. Both worked, so some other Techno Issue must be going on. I use Google exclusively, FWIW.

Good ole Thomas Edison tried over 6,000 Materials when trying to come up with a Light Bulb Filament that would work over time. Trivia we Geeks know. I've read here the gist of your opening Post many, many times. A familiar Story to some portion of the Population pushing through Recovery. How small or large that segment of the Population here is doesn't concern me.

As with Edison, you now know what doesn't work for you. That's progress, although not necessarily cheerful progress. Other rigorous NIAAA Research concludes that some ~70% of those getting Sober do so without any formal Program. Hold that thought! It's factual, robust Research. Ain't gonna debate that truism either.

Your 2 Years of progress is quite laudable, and I trust it gives you something to build on toward what is going to have to be a Personalized Program; given the scarcity you report of what's nearby.

I'm a Techno Dude in Early Retirement. So, SR being available on my Phone while in line at the Store, or just chillin' somewhere was my kinda Support. More Folks and POVs here that could ever fit in any Meeting Room. The various POVs in this Thread alone validate this observation. In my Universe, truly Recovered Folks unreservedly accept Recovery Methods that differ - even radically - from their own. Why wouldn't they?

As Boleo wisely mentions, many of my supportive Interactions were at - wait for it - the local Dog Park. Just as his were 'elsewhere'. In just BSing with Folks, I'd find out they moved back to Boulder CO to help a Son/Daughter sober up, as they had themselves several Decades ago. And, so on. This led to me realizing I wanted to hang with those already Sober long-term, and getting on with Life. There's a Boat-load of such Recovered [not still 'Recovering'] Folks out there for me to learn various finesse Strategies from. This sizable Population is embedded in the NIAAA Recovery percentage I cite above. That NIAAA Website is a Treasure Trove of non-dogmatic Research, IMO. Our Tax Dollars at work, so to speak, from the NIH...

I hope you can cross paths with similar Folks, and - as Boleo advises - hit your Recovery stride w/o dissonant Stress.
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Thanks. I found some related reading and then the wacky article I posted above. Bottom line is AA seems to work as well as CBT or motivational interviewing or nothing at all.

I'm actually doing really well, but I do get hung up with this AA thing in a bit of a cycle. I don't think about it for days or weeks, and then... This time I just happened to be in the city and had an hour. I had never been to a speaker meeting, so I thought I'd check it out. The speaker didn't show and the host became the speaker and it was just sad and miserable all around. I guess I want to feel good enough about AA to recommend it to people, but I'm not comfortable at this point suggesting it even to people of faith. It's really not the Higher Power thing that gets me stuck. It's hard to explain, and when I try I just get attacked, so I suppose I gave it my last try. I obviously don't need it, and it just frustrates me, so what's the point? I'm on a successful DIY path, and you're right about finding like-minded people elsewhere.

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Genuinely glad to hear of your progress! Rinse & Repeat what you're doing, eh?

Your 'Stress Event' brings an ancient Joke to Mind; I kinda-recall it's from Henny Youngman:

Patient, raising his Arm above his Head to show his Doctor why he's made an Appointment: 'Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do that'!

Doctor: 'OK, so don't do that'!:puppy:

Does AA keep me sober? I truly don't think so but, it is extra sober insurance for me. That's all that I need to know so as to keep me in the rooms of AA. I will go to any lengths to stay sober. Even if AA is not the best fit, it still might be a fit?
MB

MesaMan - simply loved your share about Edison and such. Thank You!!!

What I always find so strange about this discussion which has been beat into a bloody pulp more times than I can count is the anger at AA. AAers at least on SR have as far as I know never attacked other programs of recovery. I suppose some have aright to be angry if they are court ordered but that anger would be better placed at the court.

It is so simple. If you don't like AA don't go but keep in Mind that 60,000 to 80,000 people showed up to the last convention on their own dime so it seems to be working for more than few

No anger here. More like concern. Anyway, I've been told to knock it off, so... Good night.

Today a post had to be removed for linking to a very-anti AA site in a section of SR that is for POSITIVE experiences for secular peeps to share what works for them in AA.

so out is coming my rusty lock. I want everyone here to feel they have a safe place to discuss secular viewpoints in a 12 step program. Only speaking for me, this is an important place for me to share.