Tried AA again and failed
waking down
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Tried AA again and failed
So, I tried going to another AA meeting, and I tried to keep an open mind. After I was given my 2-year chip (8 months late), I heard this:
"RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."
So, just a few moments earlier someone stated that the only requirement is a desire to quit drinking, and then this comes along and tells me that if I don't fully follow the path I am probably "constitutionally incapable of being honest" or "suffer from grave emotional [or] mental disorders..."
It continues:
"Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps."
I'm not sure I want what you have. Lots of you guys seem stuck and miserable. I favor recovery without delusions.
It continues:
"Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
"Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.
"Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon."
So, the only requirement is a desire to quit drinking, but if I don't "let go absolutely," find God, and ask "His protection and care with complete abandon" I am pretty much doomed to fail. I believe I'm being told I'm taking "half measures."
No thanks. I started with Step 12 (meditation), I've done most of the other steps in my own way, I am solidly clean and sober for 32 months now, and I am more honest and grounded then I've ever been. I have faith in my ability to continue my recovery without AA.
I post this for those of you who have felt shamed or guilt-tripped or otherwise insulted by AA literature and the meetings it produces. If AA works for you, then keep going to meetings, but know that it is not the only way.
The key, though, is to have a plan and have support. We need resources and we often need help, but I have learned that many of us do just fine without God or some so-called Higher Power. I go to an AA meeting every six months or so, mostly because I know very few sober people and would like some community, maybe find some sober musicians to jam with, but I always walk away with the same sense of WTF.
"RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."
So, just a few moments earlier someone stated that the only requirement is a desire to quit drinking, and then this comes along and tells me that if I don't fully follow the path I am probably "constitutionally incapable of being honest" or "suffer from grave emotional [or] mental disorders..."
It continues:
"Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps."
I'm not sure I want what you have. Lots of you guys seem stuck and miserable. I favor recovery without delusions.
It continues:
"Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
"Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.
"Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon."
So, the only requirement is a desire to quit drinking, but if I don't "let go absolutely," find God, and ask "His protection and care with complete abandon" I am pretty much doomed to fail. I believe I'm being told I'm taking "half measures."
No thanks. I started with Step 12 (meditation), I've done most of the other steps in my own way, I am solidly clean and sober for 32 months now, and I am more honest and grounded then I've ever been. I have faith in my ability to continue my recovery without AA.
I post this for those of you who have felt shamed or guilt-tripped or otherwise insulted by AA literature and the meetings it produces. If AA works for you, then keep going to meetings, but know that it is not the only way.
The key, though, is to have a plan and have support. We need resources and we often need help, but I have learned that many of us do just fine without God or some so-called Higher Power. I go to an AA meeting every six months or so, mostly because I know very few sober people and would like some community, maybe find some sober musicians to jam with, but I always walk away with the same sense of WTF.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Fact -- AA is not for everyone.
Many recover who have never attended a meeting.
Some will sober up at home.
Some will sober up on this site.
Some will sober up in church.
And some will never sober up.
I attend AA but, do not buy into everything I hear there.
MM
Many recover who have never attended a meeting.
Some will sober up at home.
Some will sober up on this site.
Some will sober up in church.
And some will never sober up.
I attend AA but, do not buy into everything I hear there.
MM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by zerothehero 
I'm not sure I want what you have.
Fortunately there are many paths to the same goal, abstinence, that we can follow. If one path does not work, it doesn't mean we are constitutionally incapable of being honest, it just means we need a different path.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
did you read the part where it says 12-step programs are off-topic here?
the point of this secular forum is to speak about what secular stuff has worked for you, is working for you now, what you have questions about et cetera.
i fail to see the helpfulness in a "wtf" post about a program that's clearly not part of a secular approach.
maybe re-check your motives?
the point of this secular forum is to speak about what secular stuff has worked for you, is working for you now, what you have questions about et cetera.
i fail to see the helpfulness in a "wtf" post about a program that's clearly not part of a secular approach.
maybe re-check your motives?
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
I walked away each time with that same sense of WTF. 
It's just not for everyone. And I am sure, for myself, if I'd been in CA or NYC, it's quite possible I would've found some great meetings with like-minded, but I'm just not in an area that's conducive to attracting a truly diverse crowd.
I walked away with zero guilt, and with a great sense of hope. I believe our motivations to get sober and to work on our own recovery in the ways that make sense to us is what's important. I knew there were multiple ways and means.
It's just not for everyone. And I am sure, for myself, if I'd been in CA or NYC, it's quite possible I would've found some great meetings with like-minded, but I'm just not in an area that's conducive to attracting a truly diverse crowd. I walked away with zero guilt, and with a great sense of hope. I believe our motivations to get sober and to work on our own recovery in the ways that make sense to us is what's important. I knew there were multiple ways and means.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
"No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members... Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member...."
We are all passionate in our own way about recovery from a severe life-threatening medical condition, and that passion has many different forms that are all OK. It can be empowering to finally understand that failure on one path does not preclude others.
We are all passionate in our own way about recovery from a severe life-threatening medical condition, and that passion has many different forms that are all OK. It can be empowering to finally understand that failure on one path does not preclude others.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
.
This is a long and dense Read. It systematically examines Variables for Recovery approaches that work.
Pithy Anecdotes that Folks try to extend to General Truths didn't get me Sober. Digging in past false assumptions to formulate a sound Recovery Program free of Mysticism did. Facts matter. Getting on SR daily was pivotal to my Recovery.
' Alcoholism Treatment In The United States' ~ niaaa.nih.gov -
.
This is a long and dense Read. It systematically examines Variables for Recovery approaches that work.
Pithy Anecdotes that Folks try to extend to General Truths didn't get me Sober. Digging in past false assumptions to formulate a sound Recovery Program free of Mysticism did. Facts matter. Getting on SR daily was pivotal to my Recovery.
' Alcoholism Treatment In The United States' ~ niaaa.nih.gov -
.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Originally Posted by zerothehero
I guess I missed that about AA being off topic. No, I know my motives. From what I can tell, AA does about as much damage as it does good. It concerns me. Dee can move or remove tHis thread.
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
I moved the thread to this forum so you can have a discussion. Stay within the rules though.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
From the instructions on Secular If this thread doesn't quickly get more positive I'm pulling out my old dusty lock
Please use the Secular 12 Step Forum for positive topics on Secular 12 Step Recovery.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Zero I think you might be jumping to some incorrect conclusions. Please bare with me as I suggest some another ways of looking at things.
You state "So, just a few moments earlier someone stated that the only requirement is a desire to quit drinking, and then this comes along and tells me that if I don't fully follow the path I am probably "constitutionally incapable of being honest" or "suffer from grave emotional [or] mental disorders..."
The only requirement (for membership) is a desire to stop drinking. You left out the 'for membership' part. You seem to imply that this "only requirement" has something to do with the steps. It does not. It just means you can say you are a member of AA if you have a desire to stop drinking. Period. That's it. Don't link it to anything else. They are not connected.
Next is the conclusion that it "tells me that if I don't fully follow the path I am probably "constitutionally incapable of being honest" or "suffer from grave emotional [or] mental disorders...". Well, not exactly. The idea is that if you have decided to try the AA program (the 12 steps), and are not honest with yourself, then you will have difficulty staying sober (based on your own self deception while attempting to get sober through the use of those 12 steps). Self deception will interfere with your ability to stay sober. A simple example would be saying to yourself "I can just have one drink, I can control my drinking". This would be an alcoholics self deception regarding step one.
As for feeling "shamed... guilt-tripped or otherwise insulted by AA literature and the meetings" I find myself wondering how you could feel badly after attending a meeting if in fact you don't want what the people there have? At worst the readings and what is said there should just be irrelevant, particularly if your goal was to "maybe find some sober musicians to jam with".
Speaking with people before or after the meeting might be a better time to do that. People attending the meetings are typically seeking to get or receive help with their drinking. It's clear that's not the reason you were there.
Given the title of this thread and your motivation for attending, I'd have to say you were not "trying" AA again. You failed only if you did not find someone sober to jam with, but I do hope you found someone.
You state "So, just a few moments earlier someone stated that the only requirement is a desire to quit drinking, and then this comes along and tells me that if I don't fully follow the path I am probably "constitutionally incapable of being honest" or "suffer from grave emotional [or] mental disorders..."
The only requirement (for membership) is a desire to stop drinking. You left out the 'for membership' part. You seem to imply that this "only requirement" has something to do with the steps. It does not. It just means you can say you are a member of AA if you have a desire to stop drinking. Period. That's it. Don't link it to anything else. They are not connected.
Next is the conclusion that it "tells me that if I don't fully follow the path I am probably "constitutionally incapable of being honest" or "suffer from grave emotional [or] mental disorders...". Well, not exactly. The idea is that if you have decided to try the AA program (the 12 steps), and are not honest with yourself, then you will have difficulty staying sober (based on your own self deception while attempting to get sober through the use of those 12 steps). Self deception will interfere with your ability to stay sober. A simple example would be saying to yourself "I can just have one drink, I can control my drinking". This would be an alcoholics self deception regarding step one.
As for feeling "shamed... guilt-tripped or otherwise insulted by AA literature and the meetings" I find myself wondering how you could feel badly after attending a meeting if in fact you don't want what the people there have? At worst the readings and what is said there should just be irrelevant, particularly if your goal was to "maybe find some sober musicians to jam with".
Speaking with people before or after the meeting might be a better time to do that. People attending the meetings are typically seeking to get or receive help with their drinking. It's clear that's not the reason you were there.
Given the title of this thread and your motivation for attending, I'd have to say you were not "trying" AA again. You failed only if you did not find someone sober to jam with, but I do hope you found someone.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by zerothehero
From what I can tell, AA does about as much damage as it does good.
Some of that I get on-line in forums but some of it I need in f2f meetings such as; coffee shops, meetings or fellowship in restaurants. I was lucky enough to find an alternate fellowship local to me but I recognize that not everyone has that option. My advice to you is avoid meetings that disturb your peace of mind but keep seeking out others that do "more good good than harm".
S.R. will not let me link to other commercial sites but check out the website that rhymes with beat-ups.
Catch 22
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: South Africa
Posts: 327
Great post Zero. I so agree. Tried my best but AA really is just a christian cult. I am very glad it works for so many people. I do not knock it. I just can never be comfortable there. God keeps getting in the way and then I lose interest. This site on the other hand seems to be the whole nine yards. Provides for everyone with no strings attached or pre-conceived notions.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
Darwinia where do you get your information ? in Alcoholics Anonymous the members get to choose or select a Power greater than themselves or God as they ''understand '' and AA is not allied to any sect or denomination as it states in the AA preamble and also in the Traditions . It seems'' you view God as Christian '' not AA , unfortunately alcoholics are notorious for blaming anything or anyone for their own failures . AA is a ''suggested program '' take it ? or leave it ? .
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 .
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 .
waking down
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Sorry I brought it up. I've tried to be open to it because it's the only option within 100 miles. Regardless of what happens in meetings, the literature alone puts me off. I read the Big Book, and the How It Works stuff I referenced above just set me off at the meeting. Debating the pros and cons of AA is just too much like debating Biblical scripture. People see what they see and the contradictions are too much. Nuf said for my part. I'll try again to refrain...
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
I was in a crisis of faith when I did AA. My sponsor told me to pray, send up thoughts to the universe etc to find a power greater than myself. And I did and thought. A lot. Then one day I had just hung up the phone from my physicist mother and it hit me Booom! The big bang. Now if that explosion isn't a power greater than me nothing is. And we (the earth and all life aboard our planet) is still being pushed away from that center cluster of mass. So that was my Higher Power. Although I'm religious now, I work a secular program SMART, and still spend time meditate on that wondrous power that helped me get and stay sober.
Last edited by shockozulu; 08-22-2016 at 11:53 AM. Reason: clarification
waking down
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Originally Posted by awuh1
Given the title of this thread and your motivation for attending, I'd have to say you were not "trying" AA again. You failed only if you did not find someone sober to jam with, but I do hope you found someone.
"RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average."
It's like saying it's all or nothing or you're somehow incapable and doomed to fail, and I find it narrow and insulting. So, I guess I won't get to heaven cuz I don't believe, AND I won't recover because I'm not 100% on board. Give me a break.
waking down
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Originally Posted by MesaMan
.
This is a long and dense Read. It systematically examines Variables for Recovery approaches that work.
Pithy Anecdotes that Folks try to extend to General Truths didn't get me Sober. Digging in past false assumptions to formulate a sound Recovery Program free of Mysticism did. Facts matter. Getting on SR daily was pivotal to my Recovery.
' Alcoholism Treatment In The United States' ~ niaaa.nih.gov -
.
This is a long and dense Read. It systematically examines Variables for Recovery approaches that work.
Pithy Anecdotes that Folks try to extend to General Truths didn't get me Sober. Digging in past false assumptions to formulate a sound Recovery Program free of Mysticism did. Facts matter. Getting on SR daily was pivotal to my Recovery.
' Alcoholism Treatment In The United States' ~ niaaa.nih.gov -
.
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