I like JAZZMAN's definition best.....seems scientifically valid....no name calling, no judging "just the facts " Clapping for Jazzman! (pst Im working steps, journaling, taking care of my spiritual side and being helpful and creative....aa meeting to follow! Guess I could be considered a dry drunk until my brain gets better.......and just fine with me so long as Im not a drunken fool! |
Originally Posted by Ranger
(Post 3268697)
Reading between the lines of the referenced post, it means that by virtue of spending decades within a program, you are a lot slow on the uptake. But it wasn't meant to be patronizing...right? |
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
(Post 3268710)
This idea that one must never be miserable, but "happy" instead, is classic addict thinking, and my AVRT training is going to zero in on it like a heat-seeking missile. There are countless examples, out there in the real world, of alcoholics that have maintained white knuckle sobriety. Some of those people are miserable SOBs that I wouldn't want to trade lives with. Many of those people either drink again or blow their heads off. Every one of those people that I've seen engage in some sort of spiritual growth has gotten much happier. They've also stayed sober. |
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
(Post 3268659)
Dry drunkeness is no myth, has been my experience. I don't use my understanding of those "dry drunk" experiences except as a "quality check" tool in my own journey of ongoing sobriety. |
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
(Post 3268710)
You are essentially saying the same thing, though — that you need to fill that "dark hole" with something comparable, or better, or else you will drink again. Both the spiritual and psychological models of alcoholism take this view. I don't think "happiness" has anything to do with it, however. This idea that one must never be miserable, but "happy" instead, is classic addict thinking, and my AVRT training is going to zero in on it like a heat-seeking missile. My alcoholic darkness can not be filled. It is a gaping hole or emptiness or illness or whatever inside me. There is no filling or otherwise. It continues [my alcoholism] unchanged as it was no matter I drink or dont drink. It is unpowered just now though of course, otherwise I would be drunk. My sober spiritual solution is I came to an understanding of a power greater than my alcoholic self ie my alcoholism. My HP is not God. I'm a Christian, but my Christianity has zero to do with my HP ie my sobriety. First I became sober. Then I became Christian, so my spiritual sobriety was already set in stone. Before that I was agnostic when I detoxed and before that I was raised as a garden variety so-called Christian as a youth -- Sunday school and the rest. I tad bit confusing I have been told, but nonetheless it is my understanding and it works well in simplicity and effectiveness keeping me very sober for many years. My sobriety is empowered by the very same power which disempowers my alcoholism. Simple, eh?!! :c031: |
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
(Post 3268769)
Yeah, both models share the similar "fill the void" view in practice as well as philosophic rhetoric. I appreciate the heat-seeking missile metaphor, lol.
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
(Post 3268769)
My alcoholic darkness can not be filled. It is a gaping hole or emptiness or illness or whatever inside me. There is no filling or otherwise. It continues [my alcoholism] unchanged as it was no matter I drink or dont drink. It is unpowered just now though of course, otherwise I would be drunk. |
Originally Posted by keithj
(Post 3268738)
This idea is your strawman. I agree with you that's it's less than successful thinking for long term sobriety, but to imply that some program of recovery is preaching this, or that the idea of a 'dry drunk' somehow has a basis in this strawman idea, is flawed.
Originally Posted by keithj
(Post 3268738)
There are countless examples, out there in the real world, of alcoholics that have maintained white knuckle sobriety.
Originally Posted by keithj
(Post 3268738)
Some of those people are miserable SOBs that I wouldn't want to trade lives with. Many of those people either drink again or blow their heads off. The suicides are most unfortunate, but I'm not entirely convinced they are due to dry drunkism. Often, people find themselves between two intolerable alternatives: the revolving door and life in recovery, always recovering, fighting a never-ending uphill battle, but never quite getting recovered. |
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