Honesty
 

Its come up a few times lately so please don't think I'm singling anyone out.

Honesty's important. Its fundamental.
I couldn't get sober until I was honest with myself and stopped lying to everyone else.

but - 'I'm drinking but hey at least I'm being honest right?' ....is that a really 'honest honesty' or is it honesty as fuel for further addiction?

Honesty to me is like - I know drinking is destroying me, I know I made a bad call to start drinking...I hate myself so much and I'm in so deep that I don't think I can stop today...please help guys - I'm going to stick around here until you guys help convince me to dump the rest and go to bed sober.

That's the kind of honesty I like, and I think it's the kind of honesty most people need to battle addiction

Its been on my mind - I hope no one feels attacked by my thoughts or feels I've forgotten what its like.
I'm not putting down anyone who posts here 'under the influence' looking for help.

I just...I can remember justifying further drinking or further getting high - and sometimes my rationalisations sounded pretty damn good - but I also remember I knew that getting drunk or high was the wrong thing to do for me, and I hated myself for it.

I don't want anyone here to suffer like that.

D

Thanks Dee, I totally get where you are coming from and I lied to myself ( and those around me ) for many, many years. But yes, when it comes to addiction being honest about it with yourself is the most critical - and hardest - part I think.

Yep.
I used to be like that, so I recognize it right away and I try to err on the side of steering other alcoholics away from the bottle.

I read somewhere that if you don't lie, you don't have to remember what you made up.

When I was honest enough to admit that I had no clue how to get sober, couldn't fathom how to get through a single day without booze much less a month or a lifetime, I reached out and was ready to do whatever they suggested. Until I got honest enough to admit that I was incapable of doing this on my own, my life never seemed to change. I believed that the people who were sober were fundamentally different than I was, and I suppose that was true. They had gotten truly honest that their addiction was no mere choice, not something that a feel-good book, exercise regimen or some other superficial change was going to overcome. AA calls it "the jumping off place" - like jumping off a cliff on a pitch black night with no idea if the ground is one or a thousand feet below. Honesty, open mindedness, and willingness are essential. Not one, not each occasionally, but all three at the same time each and every day in early sobriety - that's what it took to get and stay sober.

I've lost three people who were at one time my sponsees in the decade I've been sober. The only way that I am different than them is that I reached out and continue to reach out. I don't have the answers, and I know that my addiction is as strong as the day I dumped that last drink.

Thanks for the reminder Dee.

There is a certain peace in honesty. Something noble. Without ego.

I really like it.

I'm not very practiced. Enthusiastic tho.

What's wrong with the truth?

Nothing. However could there be?

It's the truth.

I love you least. :)

Oh, what a tangled web.

I couldn't get sober until I got totally honest with myself. The truths that came out when I did may have been painful, but the pain slowly went away and what remained was freedom.

I don't know Dee. I think "I'm drinking but hey at least I'm being honest right?" is the very place some here are at. I'd rather them stay whatever the case may be. And if they are drinking and tell us they are drinking, that is being honest, isn't it? People on here run the spectrum from drunk as a skunk as I type this all the way to 30 years sober. Perhaps I am missing the mark, which I so often do.

I understand not everyone will like this thread but I'm not trying to run anyone off.
Some times things pester me mentally and I need to get them out.

if they use that honesty to essentially keep drinking, is it still honesty...or at least a laudable, noble honesty?

Opinions will differ but that's why I started the thread, really.

D

This implies that the person is being somehow manipulative, whereas I think they are struggling as an 'alcoholic' and reaching out in honesty. The best they can do at this time, this place.

I must be a really bad communicator today.
Headlining the thread honesty was probably a mistake - too emotive.

I'll try again.

I want everyone to experience recovery.
Not my place to make that happen, but I'll do my part to help :)

I want everyone who cyber walks in here to know that we're rooting for them.

I understand that folks are at all different points. I just wonder if we do people a disservice sometimes trying to avoid challenging them....

Cocoons are fine, but butterflies are better.

I don't want anyone to settle for second best, and I want anyone who feels the best they can do is post here while drinking to know that we'll do our best to change their minds and help them get to a better place.

D

I don't see many people here doing that, Dee. Falling back on 'honesty' as reason to continue drinking that is. Might get the odd one, but they don't seem to last long. They continue to drink. Alas and alack.

I think most people 'fess up' to drinking because they genuinely want to be sober and are struggling. Those who don't, live their own lie, and will probably drink again. Ego. So better to be honest if we drink in my opinion. And I think that's what most here do. We deny the entire purpose otherwise.

Maybe we are both making the same point, but honestly believe not many here use 'honesty' as a means to continue. And if they do, I suppose it's honest, just doesn't achieve much.

I think it's important to challenge, and I think that happens here.

Good one, Dee.

I was initially confused whether you were referring to those who came here and fessed up that they drank and rationalized their reasons for doing so. Speaking for myself, i was always ashamed to return and report another failure.

However, reading it a couple times more, I think you’re referring to folks who are posting while they’re currently drinking? Do you think it’s when they’re feeling the most shame, remorse and disgust at themselves?

I like this post!

I think we might be talking about the same thing, Dee. I'm a bit confused, too.

It's a huge topic, honesty. I don't know if I've got the brains to condense it to a couple of paragraphs.

I'm going to make a cup of tea. And yes, it's tea. :)

Thanks rar and Steely.
I tried to reframe my post in a different way but looks like that didn’t work as effective communication either.

I’ll try, for the last time cos this is getting recursive, for a Readers Digest condensation.
Lately there’s been several threads that have talked about honesty either directly or indirectly.

I wondered whether an honesty that extended to confessions of drinking - but *doesn’t seem to go any further than that* - i.e. into actively seeking solutions - was entirely a good thing or not.

I spent a long time metaphorically treading water with my addiction. I was able to rationalise myself into a effective standstill that lasted years.

That’s why I’m not afraid to challenge people here if I think it’s appropriate to do so.

We must all want the same thing in the end - recovery- or none of us would be here.

It really shouldn’t need saying but my discussion was meant to be abstract. It was not my intent to shame anyone, to judge them, or to accuse them of being manipulative or anything else.

D

Got it!

Sort of like the serial killer who thinks he's no longer responsible 'cause he's being honest about being a serial killer, then goes on to kill? 😂

Sorta like that. :)

Dee, I’m sure no one would think they were being shamed by you- especially you! I see what you’re saying, though.

Maybe shame shouldn’t have been the word I used for myself. Certainly I disappointed myself, but I also disappointed folks here too. It was a bit of a struggle to return, since SR had invested so much time in me. SR has helped me in the past and I knew I needed SR’s help still again. I, too, treaded water rationalizing my relapse. One of my rationalizations was that I was in the late autumn of my life and it was okay to tread water rather than swim.

Anyway, Dee, you are most wise and kind. You would never deliberately hurt anyone. Everyone here knows this. If someone feels any anguish as a result of your challenges, it’s on them.

Got it too- 🤗

We made it Rar. 😊

I've felt the shame too. Very difficult to disclose a relapse, but when I have it has been huge relief. Carrying the lie has always held me back. More shame, which I definitely don't need.

Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. :)