1 Question about Sobriety, AA, Sponsors and the Steps
 

Hi SR,

Situation: I went to my AA meeting this week but today's speaker became nervous and couldn't go further. There was a lot of time left and they asked if anyone else wanted to speak. I haven't really introduced myself to everyone so decided to use this opportunity to get up on the microphone and give a little of myself. I made it brief and talked a little about my struggle and what lead me to where I am now, at day 41. Most people looked very supportive and it felt very nice.

Afterward: Two seemingly very nice men walked up to me and asked if I have a sponsor yet. I said that I didn't and they immediately began stressing that I must have a sponsor to remain sober. Then one quickly asked me for my number. I said that I always investigate organizations before I join them and want to enter this at my own pace. He understood but as I began explaining my journey they began looking like I was giving them a bunch of hoola. After that one asked if I had a book yet. I said that I had one in storage and at that moment he gave me one off the table and said he would buy it for me. I felt extremely awkward at this point! I originally decided to go to AA because I seriously am focused on my sobriety but it hasn't been a real help this time. In the past when I was worse off it was more critical but now I just know I am done with drinking, no struggle. I don't care what happens to me as long as I don't drink. To me.. drinking is the same as suicide. Not that I would go immediately crazy but I know that I wouldn't be in control and not living at all.. literally walking dead. I will never do that again.

Question: I have heard about people who have quit alcohol without a sponsor or doing the steps. Are these people wrong, who I spoke too tonight? Am I destined to eventually fall back into the bottle without a sponsor/steps?

Thank you in advance,

-Michael

Hi Michael.

As a member here, I've seen long term success claimed from those who have done the steps, and long term success claimed from those who only go to meetings.

I am sure you'll hear personal experiences from both camps :)

I'm not one for the hard sell myself, but I kinda think it's good those guys were trying so hard to help share with you what worked for them?

D

There are many ways to get and stay sober. Many people get and stay sober without AA, a sponsor or the Steps.

IMO no. BUT also IMO, you will be better off if you do the steps. I'm not fond of the 'hard sell' that some make regarding the steps (though I believe most mean well by it). Find a sponsor that YOU are comfortable with. Then take it from there. You'll know um when you find um. They'll be the right person at the right time. Trust um, and trust the process. It's worked well for more than a few of us.

Be well.

I can imagine that was really awkward but I think you handled it very well. I am just starting to investigate AA myself so I cannot answer your questions. I do know that the hard sell will be a big turnoff for me. I appreciate that others want to help, but I fear I would start to feel emotionally claustrophobic if I had too many people pressuring me to go faster than I was ready to.

Having been rather cocksure of my abilities to conquer booze and sort out all my life's problems, I thought my life would automatically improve by simply putting down the booze.

The first year was actually pretty good, as I was just so very very relieved to not be drinking for any length of time.

But like a hand full of sand, it slowly slipped away.

I'm back for a second run in AA, this time I am working the steps with a sponsor.

OH MY GOD.... What a difference.

It still isn't "easy" but it is so much easier than the first run in AA, which I thought at the time was pretty good, but with hindsight.... It's like a meal cooked by Jamie Oliver vs McDonald's.

If all anyone ever ate was that crap, and refused all else, they simply would never know what was on offer.

Maybe try and look at like that.

Those guys have found a recipe book and can teach you how to cook.

Maybe the reason they are quite excited about the book and want you to have one is, they ate a lot of McDonald's before learning some decent recipes.

I'm sorry, but it is funny watching and listening people in AA make all the excuses in the world and have all the suspicions as to why someone is trying to foist this on them.

It's funny, because I was one of those people too :a043:

You may be able to do learn brain surgery without a teacher, text books, or classes but if you want to learn a new skill the fastest path from point A to B is to have all three

if your problems get worse when you drink then meetings may help. if your problems get worse when you don't drink, you may want to try the 12 steps.

Be Well,
Larry

Here is my experience with AA. I have severe panic disorder so speaking in groups paralyzes me. My first meeting was anxiety inducing but good. It was a small group. I got a sponsor and the push was on. I was told that I had to check in with her eveyday and I HAD to do 90 meetings in 90 days. If I missed a day, I had to double up the next day. At my second meeting, the speaker running the meeting started calling on people to speak. I was told by my sponsor that no one would make me speak. I went into full blown panic attack! 2 people who got called on to speak, said he shouldn't be calling people out.


I felt so pressured. I called my sponsor and told her that I couldn't do this right now. Surprisingly, she understood. She said that was not a typical meeting and that if I ever needed anything, just call. I know these people were coming from a good place-just trying to help. For me, it was the wrong kind of help but I still read the big book and when I get better at dealing with my panic disorder, I would go to another meeting.

The bottom line is that you need to find the support that works for you. It sounds like these folks were just trying to share with you what works for them and welcome you into the group. And no, not going to AA doesn't mean you will relapse. There is no one way to sobriety-there are many paths. I haven't gone back to a meeting and I am still sober.

Have you found ninety meetings in ninety days in the big book.

Nope, cause its BS.

Regardless of length of sobriety, who ever was telling you that either hasn't read the book, or has but still insists on putting their own spin on the message.

Probably came across a bit rash there. Congrats on doing the work and continuing to read the book.

You build your own destiny so you are NOT destined to relapse. Their comments anger me a little like "do what I say or you'll be doomed". The more tools you have the better, definitely, but you have to find what works for you! You are the captain of your life and you make it what it is like. It might be good advice but this is YOUR journey so YOU have to feel comfortable. I'm glad to see you went to a meeting but that is not the end all be all. You can attend hundreds of meetings but if you still drink it's not working. It's not external factors that are going to keep you sober. It is you, you and then a little of you. External factors and tools might help you but this is your battle. We are here to help you in the fight. Remember: you build your own destiny!!!

Whale, that wasn't rash at all. AA is like any group of people. You will find the laid back, the outgoing etc...I think they were just trying to help by telling me 90 meetings in 90 days. It does contradict their own literature which says there are no set number of meetiings but I know they were coming from a good place.

And I got a lot of good from AA. Right now, it's just not the path for me. I think people just need to find what works for them.

After reading your post, I quickly picked
up on the part where you said the person
asked you for your number.

Can I hit my buzzer now. :)

If I were drinking and at a club and someone
asked me for my number, I surely wouldn't
hesitate. Id be too numb to care otherwise.

Now that Im sober, im more reserved. More
protective of myself and would never give my
number out to a stranger whom I know nothing
about.

If a newcomer is just coming into recovery,
I wouldn't want to scare them away. Bombarding
them with too much information would surely
scare them away.

My sponsor lead me thru recovery by her
actions and examples. She shared her ESH-
experiences, strengths and hopes with me
of what her life was like before, during and
after alcohol.

She was a shining example to me of what
recovery was in her own life and that was
what I wanted. So I followed in her footsteps
and actions and moved forward in my own
recovery a day at a time without drinking.

There were many step study meetings, Big
Book Studies, conventions, speaker meetings,
that were always going on and it was my
responsibility to get to them to learn all that
I needed to learn in order to stay sober facing
lifes situations.

After learning how to incorporate steps in
my life, I began to live them in all my affairs.
Even at 24 yrs sobriety, I still live them to keep
me grounded in my own life and recovery.

Listen, Learn, Absorb, Apply

people got sober before the start of AA back in 1935
yes - God has always given people a way out from drunkenness
if they are willing

a good Sponsor and working the Steps benefits most all who work them

would they add to your sobriety -- probably yes

reading the AA Big Book -- highly recommended

MM

Thank you very much for everyones experience and wisdom! I am starting to learn that it will be beneficial if I find someone I feel comfortable with. I would like that one day if I could find someone like that but have to know them. Im not into bringing strangers into my life because they want to save me from myself. Sounds so backwards but I do understand it. I know thay were trying to help me and I recognized rhat and was very kind and honest about how I felt. Truth is, about 5 years ago I stopped going to meetings at around day 24 because I was just tired of it (also much younger and naive) and the differences between me and them convinced me I must not be an alcoholic. I now know that I am. So.. I will be receptive to getting to know some people and possibly giving it a chance. My concerns or pride come far after not drinking though. I will do what is nessesary but definitly dont want a creepy situation now that I am sober and vunerable. I will take it slowly and continue to go and hope that they respect my own path. I don't "buy" into popular trends so it will have to take some wading in the shallow waters before I jump in. At the very least I have to know the person and feel comfortable before I invite them into my personal life.

Thank you so much for the advise and education! I greatly appreciate it!

-M

When I was in rehab 24 yrs ago beginning
my recovery journey, I was about 30yrs.
old with 2 little ones toddling around, married
for about 8 yrs and a stay at home mom.

Family intervened on me getting me help
I so needed at that time in my life and state
of mind. Alcohol was the culprit and now I
had to learn how not to drink a day at a time.

Rehab for 28 days allowed me a good start
in my recovery with no alcohol around to tempt
me, allowed the fog to clear from my mind
to receive some important information about
addiction and the affects of drugs or alcohol
on the mind, body and soul.

When I left, I had a new Big Book of Alcoholics
Anonymous, a Twelve and Twelve Step Study
Book, a little 24 hours a Day meditation book
that you can use each day for strength and
meditation.

I used those books everyday, bringing them
with me to meetings to follow along, write
important notes in them and help me study
and learn this new way of life in recovery.

It's just like going to school. Listen to the
messages, Learn, Absorb and Apply new
lessons each day as you travel on ur journey
and the Promises as written in the Big Book
of AA will come to light bringing you happiness,
health and honesty in ur life. :)

Thank you Sharon! I guess the odd thing about my situation is that this has not been a struggle and I am much happier than before. Even going to AA was like an insurence plan but this time around I havent found it very useful. I know this sounds like I am headed for relapse but I absolutely know what will happen if I drink again. Then again.. I do want to remain sober regardless of ultimately how that is acheived, morally. So I will continue going and if they dont "get it" that I will choose my sponsor when I am ready then I may have to stop. I know that being guilt-tripped and made to feel like a blind fool is not healthy for me. I just hope I can make it work in a way I am comfortable with. Dont get me wrong.. if I let my addiction run free into my daily priorities then I would be happy to have anyone as my sponsor.. but I am not in that place. I made this decision after months of preparing and after years of unquestionable evidence.

I have learned a great deal in this thread. Thanks again everyone! It has been a great help in my perspective of AA. If I had someone who I knew and liked as a sponsor I would have no problem at all. But I dont want strangers pursuing me.

Much love all!!

SoberComposer,

It is evident by your posts, you are pretty well grounded. It makes sense to examine programs that will work for you.

I do attend AA and did indeed attend in excess of 90 meetings in 90 days. For me, after years of attempting to quit on my own with no support ( hadn't found SR! ) I was never able to get much sobriety. That stated, I am less than 4 months. But, for me that is miraculous as the obsession of the mind is removed - today. 90/90 was simply to get ingrain in me better habits immediately = replace bar time!

Like Dee stated, there are many different ways to reach the objective of happiness in sobriety.

If I were deluged with a barrage of pushy AA members, I probably would have run. There's a great speaker name Earl Hightower you may want to check out on youtube. In 60 minutes of his story, and gallows humor you will get a crash course with a delivery that is classic of the what is AA all about - IMO.

What I identify with in AA is a method that work for me to remove the obsession of the mind to drink and become sober. The steps give me tools to be comfortable in my sobriety. This was foundational to me in terms of WHY I drank. I need coping mechanisms that normal people seem to be born with. Not me.....

It is a spiritual journey with life altering results - even at 96 days - for agnostics/atheists and those of us that come to know God.

That's all I will say, don't want to be like the guys in the room throwing books at ya - Duck!!

peace

Doesn't seem odd to me at all. That's exactly how I felt when I quit for the last time. I went to AA after treatment to comply with my treatment and my family's wishes, but I did not "need" it. I already knew I was done. I knew it deeply and completely, in a way that I can't explain in words.

The unsolicited advice from members, many who definitely did not have what I wanted, became very tedious for me. I expected as much though, as I had been involved in the program in one form or another since childhood. I met my obligation, then I stopped going.

If you want to go for fellowship, go and do things your way. You have every right to go to meetings and be involved on whatever level you wish. If not, don't. It's been over seven years since I became a nondrinker, and over six years since I've attended meetings. Happily alcohol free, now and always.

Wishing you the best!

Thanks Flynbuy, I appreciate your post. I will check out Even Hightower on YT tonight. I definitely do not want to fool myself and be stuck in that cycle and so many people here have found this very helpful. All this has been very helpful because that was a "hard sell" I experienced. It's apperently a thing. That is helpful to know. I will continue to go and socialize more (about 50 ppl go to this one and its mainly speakers only. I did find out that on Mondays it is more personal, so I will try that one. I will also either dig my old bluebook out of storage and start reading. Also, I will be the one who chooses my sponsor so I will try to express that to anyone who wants to proactively be my sponsor.

Thanks Everyone!!

Thanks Soberlicious! It feels comforting to know I am not alone in my situation. I have been going on and off oover the last ten years. This last year has been me knowing im a fool everytime I drank. I actually regulated it pretty well the last few months but did benge once a week. I quit because regulating was less fun then quiting seemed and that friday benge ruined my only real day off. I am ready. Not to mention health issues, lack of real relationships, hangovers, knowing i was living weak with little to no willpower.... on and on

Thanks again everyone =)

Welcome to the SR zoo, SC - and the AA zoo again! I mean this ('zoo') in the very practical sense that I've had to accept that the world of recovery is no less diverse, people-wise, than when I'm walking down a busy street. There are all kinds out there, everywhere I go.

Until recently, I spent the last 2 and a half years flipping myself in and out of AA and assorted relapse periods. With hindsight, what's the difference for me now? It's really seeing my own persistent intolerance (and I have a mountain of it!) and the equally persistent dose of my arrogance-borne-of-lifelong-fears.

Now, when I feel a return of the more negative or irritable thoughts about me and AA, I simply default to a simple pragmatism to get me through that day so I can let it go: I say to myself, 'lighten up, kiddo: AA is readily available, it's free (apart from a bit of small change for the pass-the-basket), it gets me out of my own tiny world and my big head :-)' Plus, I've realised - duh! - that it's perfectly reasonable for me to smartly walk away with a little polite 'no, thanks' from any member who cares to come over all bullying on me. Done it heaps of times now, and I can tell you, it's very freeing.

I have a sponsor now, and have done the formal part of working the Steps, despite all my past and even ongoing skepticism (also healthy IMO, whilst also looking to maintain a balance with some open-minded willingness). Seems to be working OK so far - I'll be six months sober in about 10 days, for the first time since Jan 2012.

The "hard sell" is an interesting interpretation, none the less, I can see how many people arrive at it. I know I did.

The way I look at it now is simply this.

Some people in AA have moved beyond people pleasing & not wanting to hurt peoples "feelings"

Does it mean they are pushy, aggressive, overbearing "hard sellers" ??

It certainly can be interpreted that way.

Another way to interpret it is "they are more concerned about your LIFE, than your feelings"

Think about it .... ten years in & out of AA, drinking on & off ..... and now you're moving towards a conclusion that looks like, the best course of action is taking another run at it "YOUR way"

Maybe the reason the two guys looked at you a bit strange when you tried to tell them in a round about way "thanks but no thanks, I got this"
is that they would have been looking at you & thinking "oh you have ? OK, how's that working out for you ?"

I'll assume you've heard the quote from Albert Einstein that goes

"Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

or another one that goes around AA

"If nothing changes, nothing changes"

C'mon Sobercomposer .... have a really good think about what you've asked the SR forum, then have a look at the answers that you have gravitated towards.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

the last little quote I'm going to throw in here

"Feel the fear .... and do it anyway"

Hi SoberComposer, I've been reading your thread today and can't help but note some similarities in your described experience and my own.

I just wanted to reach out to you and let you know that you are definitely not alone in your feelings and thoughts here. When I went to AA meetings I'd already made up my mind I was finished with alcohol. I'd finally had enough. Many things contributed to my decision, and I'll spare you the details of my backstory :) Suffice to say, any sort of "miracle" spoken about in AA had already happened by the time I walked into the front door :) That is not to sound cocky or arrogant, because I've got lots of emotional, psychological, and "spiritual" growth left to be done I'm sure! But I knew walking in I'd triumphed already. So it was somewhat disconcerting, my experience with others there, with them assuming I was on the brink of relapse and such. I had several people "preach" at me during their "shares" and that was unnerving, and quite insulting. One man actually turned around in his seat and looked at me and said out loud something to the effect of: "If you don't need AA, you are free to leave." This really hurt my feelings. I had not even opened my mouth in a meeting, so there was no way they could know my situation or background. I felt judged. And it felt like a very toxic environment. It actually triggered some sort of PTSD or trauma reaction in me related to childhood (as I had attended meetings with my mom as a child).

I am actually jealous of those who live in other parts of the country where they offer Agnostic, Atheist, and Freethinker meetings. I'd like to go to them. All the good things I hear about AA meetings I heard online. My experience was horrid.

Anyway... I wanted to let you know that I felt just as you're describing, when I went to AA. And I've been sober now for 1.5 years, and productive and happy too! Everything is improving for me, and I've read a lot of recovery books, including the AA conference approved literature. I have gone to IOP after care meetings, and have been on SR reading and posting for support for a few years. SR has probably helped me more than anything. IOP first, and then SR. The recovery readings keep me grounded. I got two dogs recently to take care of and train. And now I'm learning meditation. I did vitamin therapy for the first six months, and I also started running and weightlifting. So I did a huge turnaround really. AA was, like you mentioned, something I saw as a recommendation, an insurance policy or "last resort" sort of thing.

I'd love to find a face to face fellowship to make friends and actually look forward to attending, but the AA meetings I've seen are definitely not what I want.

Good luck to you! SR is a great support for many of us. Find what ultimately is going to work for you, even if that means taking bits and pieces from many areas :)

A person I've never met in a meeting asking me for my phone number is aggressive. A person offering me their number is fine, but asking for mine is weird. I don't care how you slice it.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

There are a lot of toxic meetings around Jennie. God knows I sat in enough of them first time around in AA.

I actually had a member pronounce me "non alcoholic" after I shared that I could stop but never stay stopped.

His story was more like "drank, drank, drank, never wanted to stop (this made him a real alcoholic in his opinion) until one day, cops are looking for him, wife had packed her bags, kids all hated him. So he went to AA, hasn't had a drink since & life got better & better.

He'll tell anyone how good his life is, solicited or unsolicited, just ask him about his big house, sports cars, hot new younger wife.


I've found something that is now working brilliantly for me. It is no longer "Anything Goes" AA.

I intend on following the clear cut directions in the first 164 pages of the Big Book & using THE program, as left to me by the founders of AA.

I no longer wish to have MY program. I have MY own life. Given to me as a result of THE program.

I know all the above can be interpreted as arrogance & me thinking I have all the answers.

Paradoxically, it is in finally admitting I didn't know jack s**t, that I found some answers.

I know a lot of people can succesfully run their own sobriety. I admire them, I just realised I wasn't one of those who could.

It is all in the interpretation.

I used to interpret it that way too.

Glass half empty thinking ... tinged with paranoia.

What do these people want ? Why can't they mind their own business? I just want to not drink for Christ's sake !!!! Stay away from me, I'm afraid you'll hurt me. You can't help me, you don't understand me .... I'M DIFFERENT !!!

deleted

I'm going on five years sober and don't go to meetings and have never worked the steps.