Not sure what this means. Are you the "plus 1"? Thanks anyway. I'll always remember an agnostics AA meeting on Christmas Eve when they were questioning the validity of the "Virgin Birth", suggesting other "explanations" which were not particularly complimentary to Mary. I am not a Catholic or a regular churchgoer but I did respond that, for the life of me, I didn't see what all that conjecture had to do with achieving sobriety. I still don't. To me it seems rather obvious that some folks feel more comfortable with a simple rule, often based on God's help (believing in God as they do). If this helps them stay sober then more power to them. But if they question your belief or unbelief, say that you will never be sober unless you "come to believe" as they do, then this is inappropriate, as it would be inappropriate for an agnostic to say that a confirmed believer could not sober up unless he or she became an agnostic or atheist. If this "trespassing" on another's beliefs, another's path to sobriety, is inappropriate, is hatred or invective a proper response? Hatred, I suggest, interferes with anyone's path to sobriety. It does no good and often does harm. It is best to say nothing and maintain one's distance. It is not a perfect world we live in. The focus should be on sobriety, not on religion or the supposed lack thereof.

W

Hey W,
+1 means the poster is pickin up what you're putting down, they feel ya, they are diggin it...word to your mother ;)

+1 simply means "I concur wholeheartedly". Xo

I have come halfway up Mt. Fuji. There are other paths to the top. Far be it that I should say that someone should take or have taken another path. If he believes me to have been mistaken then I hope this does not take him from where he hopes to go.

W.

Amen.

“We should keep this door wide open.....We cannot compel the new man to believe anything, to pay anything, to do anything. We actually invite the new man to disagree with everything we say... “ Bill Wilson (one of the two founders of AA) speaking about “this most important tradition 3”. You can listen to him say it (minute 4 to 7) on this youtube video. Bill Wilson tradition 03 - YouTube

These are wise words folks.

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Please focus on the Original Post.

The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)

There are many reasons to be in AA whether they believe in a higher power or not. Being around other people with the same problem you have, knowing you are not alone helps me a lot. Picking up ideas on how to deal with problems from what people share also helps. In my opinion, most of what is said in the 12 steps would be beneficial to anyone, even if you take the God part out. I don't think it is necessary to believe in a higher power to benefit from AA.

Kiki have you looked into online meetings for Smart or Lifering yet?
just curious to see if you thought they might fit you better :)

D

I like to think that AA welcomes all who have a desire to stop drinking. If a person wishes to attend then this harms no one if he or she does not interfere with or criticize the beliefs of others. Let the door remain open to all who wish to recover from this dreadful ailment. And hope that the rooms will be filled with good will, humor and tolerance. I have been in many of those rooms and although I may have disagreed with some of the things I heard occasionally I benefitted enormously from the experience of those who have manage to attain sobriety, experiences which were valid for me even though I may have been on a path which at times was different. I thank them from the bottom of my heart. I may have disagreed at times but the benefits of knowing them far outweighed the differences. I shall never forget them. I was lost and they helped me to find myself once again.

W.

I'm not sure how, or if, this was meant for me to respond.

I've never been to AA. Nor do I have anything remotely against the program. I agree that the institution does far more good than harm. Especially for those that choose to take full advantage of it.

But we all know this....

If the definition of humility is the thinking of oneself, less, than the underlying issue of this thread is, without question, about that of pride. The putting of oneself, and one's feelings and opinions, first. Otherwise, how else could one offend a group of people, and all at the same time?

If someone doesn't believe in a "higher power", that's fine. I've got no problem with that. Unfortunately, for them, AA does. Thus, if you're unable to "fake it until you make it", rather than fight the philosophy, why not simply find another program that's more congruous to your own beliefs and save yourself the animosity that's surely to come?

Amajorityofone
Or use the parts of AA that you are comfortable with, along with other programs such as SMART, RR, etc.

Exactly. You can use what you need from every program to stay sober. You don't just HAVE to use one program.

Honestly - I am Absolutely Amazed at how Much Activity/Response this Particular Thread has Stirred-Up...Page After page...We ARE a Passionate Bunch, aren't We?

Hi Dee,

I looked into it. Unfortunately there are none here in Dubai and small as Ireland is I would have to travel 2-3 hours to get to one while I am at home.

I went to another AA meeting last night and it was good. I do find speaking to others helpful so maybe I should just suck it up and 'take what I can and leave the rest' as others have advised. I saw an addiction therapist yesterday but I'm not sure about her yet (the advice she gave me was remarkable similar to what I got in AA but it cost $170) Posting on here and blogging also helps.

Kiki - We will ALL find Our way, if We just Keep Trying. That's all We can do and I Truly do Believe that if We keep Trying, We WILL find a WAY, no Matter What.

We are a Curious Bunch and Once We get a Taste of Potential Freedom, We DO Pursue it -Whether We Rationalize, Over-Analyze, Question it to the Best of Our Ablility...Whatever!

We Can't Stop Looking/Searching for a Better Way...Once that Light-Switch is Turned on it Stays ON...That's what MY Experience has shown ME, so Far...Keep Asking the Questions...Something Always will Click in Time. I am Holding Tight to that Belief, Personally - It's ALL I have...Perhaps all We ALL Have. SR's a Great Place to be, Kiki-So Glad to See You Really Questioning it all - It shows You Really Care about Your Recovery and Your Place Here...Peace

Every single day since my first AA meeting, I have gotten a text from someone I met at them reminding me that I'm not on my own, asking how I'm doing etc. That support has been absolutely invaluable to me so far. Listening to others share about their early recovery days makes me realise when I'm going into denial. That's why I don't want to give up on it.

For the moment, God is just going to have to mean Group of Drunks and love is going to have to be what I think of when others talk about their higher powers.

I have been observing the Smart Recovery page, chat room, blogs, etc. I highly recommend it. The AA model doesn't work for me either or the religious framework. But it does work for some people and more power to them. We all have to find our own way out with support from each other. Whatever works - works. Best to everyone!

One of the reasons why Jesus is so popular and eventually crucified in his day was that he actually hung out with thieves, drunks & prostitutes. That's the beauty of the Gospel. That one so high could dwell so low. Thus, it is not surprising that you find peace and comfort in a G.O.D. For apart from them, which is a reflection of him, there is no such "thing."

Have a blessed day, pretty lady. :)

Kiki- I'm so glad to hear you're doing stuff to help with your recovery. That's the important thing to me, having the willingness to do some stuff you may not be real comfortable with because we know we need to do something different. That was my experience.

Hope you have a great day!

Sent from my iPhone using SoberRecovery

I think you're misunderstanding the concept. Believing in a higher power doesn't mean believing in God. It means realizing that folks can't make this kind of fundamental change on their own.

Unfortunately, that misunderstanding can steer people away from a program that does a lot of good.

I think Painter explained it very well for you: