kiki

I understand your issue with the God thing. It is my opinion that most of the people that attend meetings believe in the religious concept of God. The term higher power is rarely used. There are some meetings I've gone to that talk about things like giving your will over to the care of God. I get very little out of those meetings since the people that share at those meetings are clearly talking about a Chrstian God. Occas ionally, I'll even hear an amen. lol. But most meetings I go to are not so focused on God, and I get a lot out of them. Right now, I just go to the meetings, nothing else. People talk about a lot of stuff that really helps me. It's like SR. I can't relate to everything people post, but I still get a lot out of the post that I can relate to. I don't think anybody was really lieing to you. You don't have to believe in a higher power to go to the meetings. That's true. If you did offend somebody, that's there problem. You can't be wrong when you are being honest. The people that are truly solid in what they believe and have a good program going were not offended. Maybe you gave some people something to think about. Hope you keep going.

Kiki,

Check out Carl Jung's idea of spirituality and his connection to AA. Maybe his wider view can help you?

Carl Jung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think Love is a wonderful answer! You don't have to have everything figured out in the first few days. I started the steps last May and took a break after the first two. I spent a lot of time thinking on 3 and finally remembered a vision I had once and knew that was my answer. This therapist poured oil on my third eye and I had a vision. Pretty wild! I was raised Catholic so did not not expect such a response to chakra stimulation. But having an open mind really never hurt me.

Another book I found very interesting is The Happiness Hypothesis. It took me awhile to read, but it covers centuries of human experience and boils it down to an equation. Really quite elegant.

I wish you peace and that you find some harmony.:hail: PS I do not kneel!

People say "open your mind" as if it is a decision you make like demmocrat or republican whether or not you believe in God and it really isn't. One woman in particular has repeatedly 'advised' me to get down on my knees at night and pray. It just doesn't work for me

I really have made an attempt to get my head around this. I have thought about making love my higher power. I believe in love, and I believe love gives us the capacity to do things we might have thought impossible. So maybe that would work? I have a heart shaped necklace and since I thought about this I have associated it with love as my HP and it kind of feels like a ********. I have to admit though, I'd feel kind of silly saying any of that to a sponsor.


1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Not silly at all. As you see from the Bible quote above, God really IS love. :)

Its just a god of your own understanding, whatever it may be. Almost everyone is offended at first by the word God when they first go to AA meetings from what I hear in the rooms of AA. They are closed minded, and prejudice. I like the poem by Herbert Spencer.

"'There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.'" - Herbert Spencer- Alcoholics Anonymous, 4th Edition, Appendice II, Spiritual Experience, pg. 568~







I doubt you offended anyone in the room.

This is the attitude in the rooms that pisses me off more than anything.

I don't suppose it has ever occurred to you that someone can be open minded and unprejudiced and still not believe in God?

This is not contempt prior to investigation. I was raised Catholic and this is something I have thought long and hard about.

This attitude is incredibly patronising and unhelpful compared to the other advice I have gotten here.

Let's all keep it civil folks.

Thanks

D

Have you seen "waiting: a non-believer's higher power?" It's for atheists and examines how atheists can philosophically get into AA. Really good.

There are other wonderful programs than AA. Congrats.

Why on earth would it offend people that you don't believe in god? There must be hundreds of thousands of people out there that don't believe in god, higher power etc, the same there are dozens of different religions. I don't get how any of this is to do with not drinking!!!!

I still don't see what any of this has to do with not drinking. The same as what's it got to do with not eating cake!?

We're circling the drain here, folks...

D

Dee: I really like that one! "Circling the drain"! Do let us know when it's time to flush it!
Could it be that one "circles the drain" before "hitting bottom"? :a108::react

W.

I wasn't trying to be funny.

let's focus, guys.
D

Not to derail this thread, but I laughed when I read that too, responded that I thought that was funny... Then decided not to press go :). Gonna steal that one and pass it along to the folks at TB, Dee. Thanks. :)

This is a very good point. Just the fact you are going out of your comfort zone says a lot. And that is a positive things, means you are at least being open to it and trying it.

Recovery is not easy and there are lots of different programs out there. Everyone has to find what works for them. What works for one person, might not work for another.

I myself incorporate 3 different programs (WFS, SMART, AA) because I don't get 100% what I need from just one. So I take the things I need and are positive for ME from each of them and leave the rest behind. This is what I have found that works for me.

Kiki - a book that I've found so helpful: A Woman's Way Through the 12 Steps by Stephanie Covington. Helpful for me because it showed me a different path through some of the highly charged (for me) language of the Big Book. Main focus is on a woman's perspective, but through her interpretation of the 12 steps, she also tackles navigating the program from a variety of perspectives including agnostic/atheist. This book as much as anything gave me a sense of possibility that I could find my own path through AA without sacrificing the integrity of my values.

Ding! Ding! Ding!
Winner winner, chicken dinner.

If we all said what we thought, every time we thought it, to everyone in the room, including this one, the result would always be the same.

You create an atmosphere of animosity.

Thus, the problem, as I see it, is simply Pride. You're seeking a peace and comfort apart from "God." Which, of course, is not there. There is no such thing.

I just pass or say I'm here to listen when the subject is on God. AA definitely helps me stay sober so I'm gonna keep going. Staying sober is #1 in my book and that's all that really matters.

I'm focused now. Your admonition is well taken! I have always wondered why debates about whether God exists should have something to do with achieving sobriety.

W.

This +1