For me it was a day here a day there of mental confusion and slightly goofy behaviour.
I never experienced the return of full on detox symptoms.

I'm not debating with you whether it's PAWS, I'm not a Dr - but did you ever see a Dr to rule out that it could be another cause AO?

D

I'm thinkin' about it buddy.

My memory is ****.

I think at a month or two sober, PAWS isn't necessarily raising its ugly head. From what I recall, PAWS can kick in after a few months sober and for any doubters out there it can be a very real physical and mental gig.

For me it included ringing ears, a pins-and-needles feeling persistent throughout the day on my scalp, muscle spasms and twitches, shaking hands. Those were all very real physical symptoms I had after six months sober and they didn't begin to diminish until after a year of sobriety.

And then you can add in slammed-to-the-mat depression, anxiety, cognitive failure -- like not being able to read a sentence or follow a news broadcast -- and repetitive thoughts, like getting a song heard at the convenience store stuck in my head for hours, only to be replaced by the very next tune heard...

...call it brain damage, call it PAWS, there is a lot to be said about the brain rewiring after a few years or few decades of drinking and drugging.

PAWS is a very real phenomena, and not just from my experience but from my trolling through medical journals, etc. It's something that can be diagnosed after six months of sobriety and can rear its head throughout the first couple of years. I can recall at two years sober having some fleeting symptoms return.

I think there's something to be said for some AA old timers who bite their tongue and don't tell newcomers that it takes about five years of sobriety to beat this thing. I'm at three years and I believe it. That's not to discourage newcomers. Hell, I wouldn't wish my first year of sobriety on my worst enemy, but you really got to give this time thing what it needs. Time. The sober kind. The grab the edge of the mattress and don't drink or drug no matter what variety. It does get better. But if you were an alcoholic and a benzo addict like I was, there's a whole lot of suck coming. That's why I needed a fellowship of like-minded and like-experienced others to get me through. And that prayer thing, too.

It didn't take me 5 years but it was definitely years not months - I drank and drugged a heck of a lot for a long long time.

I still think I got off pretty lightly, considering :)

Things do get better guys :)

D

A whole lot of suck coming. Lol !! Fabulous.

Well, hmmmm.

I best get my big girl pants on because if THIS ain't the PAW's, I'm going to need a bigger ass. Because this ones already beat up.

I've had labor pains that were easier than this. Sleep deprivation that I was sure was going to kill me as my babies grew makes this look like a cake walk.

But I'd rather have it served up to me straight than sugar coated. Let it burn so I never forget.

Just like my last scotch.

It wasn't an ordeal everyday, or anything like that :)

think of human nature - if things didn't get better, none of us would stay sober.
things can, do, and will get better overall - you have my guarantee :)

D

Oh...If forgot to add that all the pain -- all the "suck" -- was worth it.

Maybe this helps:

Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Alphaomega, I'm not a dr., but what you're describing doesn't seem to match what is described in the Wikipedia article. You do have some of the symptoms but many of us have those symptoms for a short while. I don't know the diagnostic criteria for PAWS, but given the long list of symptoms, I doubt that just a couple would lead to that diagnosis.

Also, a lot of people simply don't get PAWS. The symptoms you describe, at this point in recovery are in fact very common. But they're not PAWS, just part of the natural recovery process.

But... If you really want to know what's going on, I'd see a dr. If I had doubts about what was going on with me, I would go see my doc too.

I think that's the best thing you can do if you want closure on this, go see your doctor.

I just remind myself of the alternative!

That Wikipedia article says PAWS could last decades. Well crap. I wonder what the correlation between the amount/duration one drank to the duration of PAWS is.

You know the more downsides that come pout about drinking, I think if I'd known all these things before my first drink I would have thought twice about taking it.

Side effects may include: decades of anxiety and depression (well and death of course)

I so wish I'd never started that affair with alcohol when I was young.

Hi Alpha...congrats on your sober time.

I'm at day 46 and definitely have had some ups and downs since around day 30. A few days where I've been super tired, slept all day...then I go to the other extreme and feel great. As others have said, see a doctor, but also, there's some full on mending going pin in our bodies...so I expect a bit of misfiring to happen.

Good luck...and best of all...you aren't alone!

You are making it Alpha. I didn't notice any paws until 4 months. I felt foggy and depressed for about the first 2 months. I felt better off and on because I wasn't having hangovers anymore. Month 3 was pretty good. At 4 months everything went haywire: sleeping problems, cognitive problems, obsessive thoughts, periods of mania then depression. Basically I can only describe it as what people with bipolar must feel. It came on slow for about a week then I had 2 really bad days then it leveled back off over the next week. About 6 weeks later I had another episode but it was much less severe. I started taking better care of myself and I think that helped. As bad as it sucks it is a really good thing. I think of it as your brain adjusting back to center. After it was over I started to be able to think like I did before. Before as in how I was 10 years ago when I cared about more than being able to drink.

Don't know if it was PAWS, but sugar cravings for me.

I agree. Had I know how devastating it can be, I wouldn't have done it.

About PAWS lasting decades... I think those are very rare cases. First there's the question if you get them in the first place. And then, them lasting for decades is the extreme. So the chances of that happening are very small. I drank heavily for years and am not concerned.

It's like withdrawal. It can kill, but that's very rare compared to the average withdrawal symptoms. Some people hardly get any.

I think that over-focusing on all the things that could happen creates unnecessary anxiety. And beware of the placebo effect. If you think that you might get certain symptoms, you might create them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Instead, be careful, aware and smart, but also have the attitude of "I'll see what happens. It'll probably be alright" . At least that's what works for me.

Ok Dee. You win. I went to the doctor. Was uncomfortably and brutally honest (to which she commended me on my strength). She did a myriad of blood work.

And now we wait....

PS - thanks for the push guys

XO AO

Don't get too down about it guys! The Wiki page ends with

"The condition gradually improves over a period of time which can range from six months to several years in more severe cases".

..if you get symptoms at all that is.

good for you AO. I had no intention of going to the doc butwent at 3 months sober and had bloods tested. Just telling him everything too felt verytherapeutic,so glad I went.

After 8 years sober I still have periods in my life where I have no motivation, feelings of extreme lethargy and times when my head is full of either nonsense or 'fog'. I'm not saying that any of it is particularly down to PAWS but it could be! The difference is recognising when it's 'normal' (even none drinkers/users have days where they don't feel right) and when it's extreme. Like others have said, the feelings do pass and at this stage, please don't worry too much about what the future holds. We all take a day at a time, and we can all ultimately cope with life much better without a drink, even though sometimes it doesn't feel like it. Thinking of you.

LOL I don't get kickbacks or finders fees....

I hope you win on this one AO :)

D