Hey Non.

I, too, hope you are doing okay today. Please do check in with us when you can.

Doing great today. Got a fantastic 6.5 hours of sleep. (That's above average for me.) I read (and thanked) all the additional posts in this thread since last night, but didn't have anything to add. Plus I am working on a personal website, and that was pre-occupying my early morning time.

Got to work and discovered my boss called in sick, so I am in charge today. That was unexpected, so I have been running around with a helment fire trying to make sure I actually KNOW what is going on today. :)

Non-
Dont forget your a bad**s and :You_Rock_ .... Pretty sure thats what you told me when I was the one who relapsed. Tell your beast to STFU and move on with your life. Enjoy your day..... Jess

Eat kiwis an hour before bedtime Nons....they help you sleep...sounds strange, but there have been studies..they evidently contain a large amount of natural melatonin.

Thanks for your honesty Non, can relate to so much of it, my mind is thinking in overdrive when im tempted to drink- I have been known to walk up and down the same street to a bar over ten times 'trying' to make a decision. I do feel insane in those moments and my heart is racing, it proves to me that I am ill with this and am quite sure a non-alcoholic doesn't think or behave in this over thinking way.

Im still struggling after a bad bank holiday weekend. That first cold pint sat in the sun in a beer garden wasn't even enjoyable- my brain was already racing ahead thinking where to go next, how many can I get away with, shall I have a cider next- so similar to your thoughts in that first bar. Good luck friend.

Yes I've been there many times and the booze usually won. What started to make a difference and make the struggle simpler were things like halt, kiss and the serenity prayer. In time these events (with a whole lot of other tools) became rare. Sometimes the urge still blinks (like a bubble rising) but go straight to things like gratitude. It's no longer a struggle but a gift. but not one I take for granted. one day et.c.

I also experienced a reversal of intent. My decision was after many years of not drinking, but nonetheless, I chose to drink again. My binge lasted 7 years and it's an understatement to say I was "all beast". In the end, I had a little talk with myself... "Well, soberlicious, it's obvious that this can happen, so what are you going to do about it in the future? What exactly is your plan of action to make sure you don't do this again?" ...because I can ensure that. I can make sure I never put alcohol in my body again. I can and so can you. What's your plan, Non?

1stepup, it is amazing how similar our experiences are. For me, as soon as that thought of a drink hits me, followed in quick succession by all that you mentioned, I am drunk before I even start.

Nonsensical, I am glad to hear you are so busy! Great way to stay out of trouble.

To think it over for a few days, and determine the plan.

Hi non. So, what have you learned from your little experiment that you didn't know before?

That's what I need the few days to determine. :)

Hello Non,

Sorry to hear you had a slip-up yesterday. My AV is also ruthless and almost lead me in the wrong direction yesterday. It had me convinced, so I checked with my husband if he thought having "one or two glasses of wine" would be okay. Husband said, "Ummm, isn't that The Beast talking?"

I am sure it was a big disappointment to your family, but you should see it as a slip-up, a speed bump on the road to permanent abstinence. Sometimes I go to YouTube and look at video compilations of drunk people acting stupid when I hear the AV talking. It works pretty well to talk it down. I also read the AVRT book and remind myself that permanent abstinence is the bare minimum of what my family deserves.

It is hard.

Hope you feel better. Best wishes to you and your family.

There is a section in the RR book if you are so inclined. Chapter 13 "Lapses, relapses, and other nonsense" I found it to be interesting reading. Maybe you will too. Here are some words from the book in typical blunt JT style: If you have no plan to quit for good, then you have a plan to drink again. I've heard a similar sentiment in AA: "Take a white chip and put it in your mouth, when it dissolves, then you can drink" (hint: it's never going to dissolve ;)) Do *you* need a few days to determine you are done...or does *it* need a few days to restrategize?

Sorry to read about your relapse, Non. You seem to be a guy with his head on straight, and who doesn't like a guy with a healthy love of bacon.

Just remember, you can't think your way through this. Don't take too long contemplating what you've learned. Just recommit today and move forward.

Thanks for sharing your experience. For what it's worth, I can tell you this and not be able to live it myself, so I know easier said that done. We're here for you.

Funny it happens that way. I've had more then a few episodes of that too. Sober 4 awhile. Everythng seemed 2 be ok. Then whammy, out of nowhere, here comes the idea of picking up again. Things can be good at this point in my life, or bad. It can be sunny, rainy or just any other thing that triggers my av. Because I can't shut it out, I can only try 2 shut it up. And its hard for me to overcome it. But I've been trying, and will continue to do so. Hopefully, someday this stupid av desire to drink will finally leave me. Some folks say it does for them, over a length of time. I hope that is true. Hang in there, get back on track. You can do it. happyface:

Carl:" But your AV isn't driving the bus. You are. You chose. You drank. And after that, powerless."

Non: "And just like that I seemed to completely forget that I'm an alcohol addict "....." It was literally a split-second decision. I wasn't even thinking 'beer' when I pulled into the parking lot. I was getting out of my truck and saw the side entrance where the pub is and just thought "eff it, I'm gonna try one of their beers", walked in and ordered one ..."


sorry to hear you went there, Non.
i'm never sure what we/people are supposed to "learn" from these things; yet so frequently it's assumed we should, or that we did.

what i learned, ultimately, and this was after lengthy sobriety and looking back on the seemingly un-decided decisions i'd made many times to drink again, was that i didn't really always make a "real" decision about the first one. i couldn't; i didn't.
call it autopilot, call it AV in control, call it alcoholism....i ended up getting that i did not have free choice entirely. this is what the condition/disorder of alcoholism implies. to me. now.

the split-second stuff. the blank spot.

what will step into that split-second space and make us turn?
how to avoid getting into that split-second space?
when did we allow or make room for that or did we?

how do we make a different decision next time?

in a real way, i was powerless about the first one.
much as rationally that makes no sense.

it turned out to be too easy to brush these things away with "i chose" and not look harder.

but that's me. no idea if any of that resonates with you.

non - going to meetings is definitely a big part of AA but it isn't everyhting. have you ever had a sponsor or done the steps? the support network is amazing in moments of weakness.

I'm gonna ride this wave too....

A lot of folks talk about what they learned from relapse - and maybe some do learn something - but all I ever learned is that drinking sucks...and I'm a very bad drinker.

I knew that anyway.

Analysis is great, but too much analysis is inertia - you don't want that, Nons.

Your AV might though?

D

I have determined that I am done. Several times.

It leaves me things to think about if I am to make this the last time I determine that I am done. :)

I guess relapse is the nature of the Beast and we have to figure out a way to kill the Beast or deal with it in some way. That is if you follow the ideas of Rational Recovery. Best of success Nonsensical!