The Really Scary Part-Getting Out of Denial
 

When I think over all the problems I had getting into recovery I often get scared all over again. Here is this hideous and humiliating illness (or whatever you choose to call it). If left unchecked it can (or will) kill you. But before it does that it can take away your home, your job, alienate you from your spouse, your kids, the rest of your family, rob you of self respect and leave you alone with a bottle or whatever drug you happen to have chosen. But that’s not the real scary part. The real scary part is how often, when I felt really down and out, when I admitted that I had become addicted, when I determined never to drink again, to seek “help”, to do whatever was necessary to get sobriety, when I did all these things, when i really convinced myself that this was the end of my addiction- the really scary thing was how often, how very often, after a month, several months, or in a few cases, several years, the thing would suddenly be there, having crept up behind me and there it was again- the whole house of cards would collapse.
So the scary part is -how can I be sure? How can you be sure? Even after 23 years? Is it still there waiting for me? Maybe that’s why I’m writing this, why I often log on to this website. Is that why you're here too?

W.

I can understand being scared - my addiction just about took everything from me - including nearly my life.

I was certainly deathly scared of relapse for a while.

But I've spent a lot of time dealing with my addiction - I know I can deal with everything it has to throw at me.

I've also spent a lot of time rebuilding my life and my self. Still a work in progress but I like the results so far.

I know for a fact I put all that at risk if I drink again.

I'm no longer insane so the old thoughts really lack any power now.

So no not scared - still respectful of the relentlessness of my addiction sure, and not complacent or smug...but not scared...not any more.

That's not why I'm here :)

Don't you feel that way too wpainterw?

D

Scary post. Something I wonder about myself. I was proud of myself for just making it 22 DAYS and I messed up during what was a harrowing holiday weekend. What can I do but just keep on trying with the hope that one day, I'll get it right?

The bad thing (also scary) is that there are things I actually like about being drunk. I guess I need to instead remember what I DON'T like about it, and the list is much longer.

I don't feel that way because I feel like I know things now that I didn't know when I was drinking. I've uncovered the lies that kept me drunk. I can't really 'unlearn' that stuff.

I don't see myself convincing myself that I can moderate :lmao and I see nothing attractive in going back to drinking my head off every night. I'd miss real life too much!

You have been sober for 23 years?

Thanks Dee. Well, I admit that I'm less scared than I was many years ago. But having been through all that I still make a point of keeping a good watch posted,as they say in the military. Let me put it another way. For around 30 years when I was "struggling" with this thing, trying to get into recovery, for all those years I thought I was scared but in retrospect I don't think I was scared enough. Denial is like this- "I'll get counseling, I'll be honest with my doctor, I'll admit I'm powerless over alcohol, etc. etc." But this is all window dressing unless something happens to cause a real change of some kind. Otherwise you're talkin' the talk but you're not walkin' the walk. That started with me when I got into a program. It happened to be AA and frankly I've still got some problems relating to all of that. But I guess I managed to get enough of it under my belt to get things started. In retrospect I think that, although some folks seem to have done this alone, I found that it was necessary for me to have some kind of a program, some help from other alcoholics, to get anything done. It doesn't have to be AA but it often is.
So you ask why am I here on this website? Yes, that's why I'm here. I'm here to remind myself to be vigilant and hopefully to help others do the same thing.

W.

I find that knowing that I have control of not taking that first drink & just taking it all one day at a time helps me a lot.

In regards to fearing a relapse, well I guess I don't fear it right now because I feel so far from that thought right now. I think Dee covered it pretty well above.

All of the best my friend you can do this.

I think part of recovering is fear. But it's a healthier fear than the fear of running out of booze. It is part of our make-up as alcoholics. I think even though we have basically dealt with issues of why we are drinking there is still that magnet to WANT to drink. Even though it made us useless and shameful there is still the thrill and excitement about sauce. Sure, it is scary. Every true recovered alcoholic should still hold on to a shred of fear -it is that fear that keeps us sober. We know what will happen. We know the consequences. We know where we will inevitabley end up.

Here are two analogies I found online about relapse. I thought they were interesting and scary.

A cucumber gets pickled but is pulled out of the pickling solution before it is eaten away or shriveled into oblivion. Does the pickle ever return to being a cucumber again? No. It will forever remain, a pickle.
We are like "pickles". If we stay out of the solution we can save ourselves but we will never be cucumbers (normal) again.
Staying out of the solution takes changing our mindset plus seeking spiritual help.

~And~

You create this tiger as you ingest your DOC. The tiger grows as your addiction grows.

Now, if you can stop drinking, this tiger will eventually calm down and go to sleep. Keep up the sobriety and the tiger will never wake up.

But here is the trick - the tiger continues to grow larger, even though you have stopped the drinking. This tiger gets bigger and bigger the longer you stay away from your DOC.

Now, what happens when you decide to "reward" yourself for being clean so long. You take a drink. You are unique, right? You can take a drink and walk away, right?

Wrong. You have just woken up a 500lb beast that wants to be fed. And you will be compelled to comply...Never wake the tiger up.

P.S. Am I "scared" right now, right this moment? No. But when I think back on what happened during those years and what could have happened, and all the times I had convinced myself that I was out of danger but wasn't really, I can't help getting spooked. I feel like there's a shadow still around somewhere and I've got to be vigilant. Also, I still can't explain what made it all turn around and get better, except that I needed the help of other alcoholics.
So put it this way. I'm not scared right now but I remain vigilant and I'm trying to give back some of what I've received. Whether a person takes part in AA or some other program or even tries to do it on his or her own, it's that first big step that's the tough one. You may think you've taken that, that you're on your way to recovery, but it's a very tricky business, a struggle for complete honesty and that's where other alcoholics can help. At least they helped me.

W.

W.
Maybe as uncomfortable as that fear is, it is healthy. I think that realizing how vulnerable we are is uncomfortable.
But when we know our weaknesses, we can fight them.
Maybe when you feel vulnerable it is a sign that you need something. Maybe some special fellowship with some really wise recovering a's, like yourself:)
I think you have a special gift- teaching. I am glad you are here. Thank you for sharing, it makes me feel less alone, to hear others voice their doubts and fears. We are really all so very much alike, it seems.

I love Red Green's famous saying "Remember, we're all in this together- I'm pulling for ya".

hugs
chicory

Thanks Chicory: Put it this way. It's largely the memories which are frightening now. What could have happened but didn't. What did happen but shouldn't have. How confident at the time I felt when I thought I'd beaten it and how wrong I was. And how stupid I was when it kept coming back and back. And, finally, how completely weird it was when it started getting better and kept doing that. Addiction is a frightful thing. Because it's not like losing a leg or two. It's like losing yourself. And once that happens all bets are off as to whether you're ever going to get yourself back again.

W.

Hi W,

Yeah, there is absolute surety in a steadfast sobriety available for all of us, its all there for us even in spite of our past fears and experiences and inner demons.

I can be sure based on my sober experiences since July 1981, so about 30 years. No lapses or relapses - just everyday sobriety day after day.

I've experienced poverty, richness, medical challenges, job loss, divorce, family emergencies and breakups, suicidal ideations, depression and anxiety, mental illness, anger issues, isolation, re-marriage and finally just old fashioned despair and dumb-ass selfishness.

Stayed sober through it all. Very sober, not white-knuckling it, not fighting against taking that drink. Once I surrenderd back in my first three months sobriety was always there for me to lean on and trust my life with.

23 years is a hell of a long time, W. If you are having doubts about being sure of sobriety with that many years under your belt, that would be an awesome amount of pain to carry around, and I hope you realize that its never to late for us to dump our pain and live a new life without all the fears of our alcoholic past.

I'm not here because of pain or fears. I logged on here first time in June 2008 because I wanted to get on with my life following my separation in 2007 from my ex-wife of 22 years marriage, and then my divorce finalized in 2009. As it turns out, I met Melissa, (Ajax here at SR) and we got happily married in October of 2009. So for me, what I wanted out of SR I got: new relationships in my new life as a single man. I did not plan on marrying anybody from SR, but my HP and God, and Melissa :) had their plans too, lol, I soon discovered. I also had plenty of chances to share my sober experiences as well here on SR.

I've never posted any shares of me being in trouble or otherwise having a difficult time with my sobriety. Dosen't mean I haven't had some significant life challenges: I lost my home, and my job, and my money, in my divorce. I had a lousy '93 Ford Aerostar, a big screen TV, a computer, a desk, some clothes, and my seventeen year old daughter who wanted to live with me and not her mother.

I was taken in by my sister and parents and they gave us love and shelter as I slowly got back to my feet. Well, so to speak, because actually, in June of 2008 I had some medical complications that have permanately resulted in my alternating from using crutches and / or my wheelchair. I haven't walked since June 2008, and its unlikely I'll ever walk again.

I also have chronic pain, and I'm told only an amputation of my right leg from the hip will relieve the pain. I don't take pain meds, they just don't work for me. They mess me up and the pain just continues although muted. You can imagine my physical pain if my doctors and myself are considering amputation. I have a long medical history. As a matter of fact, my right foot has already been amputated, back in '83, so I was like 2 years sober then, you know?

Should I go on? Even I find it hard to comprehend what I was dealing with while drunk and now sober.

My alcoholism left me with a life time lasting gift even into my sobriety: a peculiar mental illness diagnosed as undifferentiated schizophrenia. I also have the challenges of attachment disorder since early childhood to deal with in my adult sober life. Again, no meds. They just don't work for me good enough for me to take them. I would if they worked, it would be so much easier, lol.

I find Gestalt Therapy, and sober fellowship with clean alcoholic drug addicts very helpful in my meeting and surpassing my physical and mental challenges, as well my alcoholic challenges are furthur surpassed by my sober spiritual life experiences gained by my living the AA program.

A spiritual life is what saves me from my troubles. Absolutely and completely. I am truly beyond human-aid. Very much so. I have every reason to drink and I don't have the slightest want to drink. Its all been removed. Before sobriety of course, it was a different story, I was always as drunk as I could get. And no wonder I drank, lol.

So today, I'm doing okay. I'm retired. I worked in the addictions field for 20 years, and I "worked" for another 10 years as a foster-father in a group home enviroment with youth from broken families, almost all of them having been devastated from alcoholic backgrounds. I do investing in the open stock market, and I'm doing okay. I have no big debts, my home and 2011 SUV all paid for in full. I'm not hurtin' for money no more :)

My point is that I have the alcoholic background that does not lead to all that I have today, and yet here I am. Usually alcoholic drug addicts like me just die on the street, getting sober is rare.

I'm trying to say that if you have fears W, then those fears are robbing you of a spiritual life experience that would be your salvation if you could surrender to what is ailing you. You would be the winner. You have nothing to lose but all that fearful suffering for your hardships.

Like I'm saying, I still have hardships, I still endure troubles, I still have dire challenges and I could still be drunk and make it all worse and lose everything if I wasn't living a sober spiritual life.

Yeah, my sobriety is a sure thing. Absolutely a sure thing. And it has always been a sure thing for 30 years now through good times and bad times.

W, do you live a spiritual sober life? I'm not asking about religion, but I'm asking are you spiritual? What experiences are your fears and despairs based on? 23 years is a long time, for any of us, my fearful fellowship brother. How can we help?

warmly,
Rob

Sure, in the early beginning fear of sobriety, fear of alcoholism, fear of living and dying, fears of getting on in our day, etc. are indeed a healthy experience as we mature into our sober lives.

I'm a true recovered alcoholic, and why should I hold on to any shred of fear exactly? Its certainly not fear that keeps me sober. Fears weaken me, and steal and erode my faith away. The only good worth fear has in my life is to ignite and bring to life my experience of courage and bravery in the face of my fears.

You of course can speak for yourself, but as for this truly recovered alcoholic it is not fear which keeps me sober. Spirituality in spite of my fears, surpassing my fears, overwhelming my fears, those experiences keep me sober, as do other life experiences and lessons learned as well too.

Hey, so how do magnets work?

:)

W, good post (as usual).

I don't know that "fear" is the word that I would use. Having seen my mother live and die with this disease and finally at the age of 43 facing up to the ugly truth that I had become everything I hated in her, I sought help. Sure, initially it was all about fear and the unknown at that point. But you described my memories of her from the age of six or so pretty succinctly:
In my limited experience the cornerstone of adddiction is denial, and if you can manage true honesty about your addiction and your actions then you have a shot at sobriety. Not drinking for twenty three months doesn't make me any less an alcoholic than while I was drinking. It never goes away, we are like elephants in that respect. Our amygdalae will light up like a christmas tree when we allow the denial to creep back into our lives, and in succession we will drink eventually. We will point to the job loss, an unfaithful spouse, the cruel affects of aging... but it was and always will be denial that causes us to drink.

Edd

Fear of the bottle ending my life got me into sobriety. today that Fear is gone. If and only "IF" i decide to try the old game again.. do i have to ever feel that fear again.

New to all this
 

I'm aware that i'm an alcoholic. I've been drinking on a regular basis for years. I quit drinking for one full week and i've never been more depressed in my life. I came to the realization that alcohol was all i had left. How do i fix this?

wpainterw: I can be sure that I'm never going to drink again the same way I'm sure I'll never smoke again, starve myself again (I had an eating disorder), sleep with my ex-husband, or engage in other self-destructive behaviors that are no longer part of my life.

I am not afraid. I come here to help others, and I bet you come here for the same reason, at least in part.

giving the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous a try would be my suggestion.. Good luck to you Rotinaj! and Welcome to SR! :wild

RobbyRobot:
Thank you so much for your concern but I'm afraid that you misunderstand my thread. I thought I had made it quite clear that I am not anxious in any way that I might drink, and I am certainly not "white knuckling" it nor carrying a lot of pain around. As to my "spiritual" life, I had, I thought, gone into that in some detail (indeed some might say too much detail!) elsewhere. If you send me a private message I will give you the locus of those reflections.Perhaps you might like to click on my name above my avatar to get more info on me.
Let me see if I can explain it a little this way. Suppose you are home now from a very perilous journey. That journey took place many years ago. You have been home now and happy for years but when you think back on those dangers which you managed to survive you wonder to yourself, "How did I manage to get where I am today?" I have just been looking at a series of movies about men fighting in the Pacific under horrendous conditions in WW2. When they got home perhaps many of them wondered how they ever made it through, and indeed some of them might have a bit of a guilty feeling about having survived when others did not(the so called "Stockholm Syndrome").
So let me assure you. I'm very happy now. At least compared to what I was. I have no desire to drink. I can mix a dry martini for a friend and have some lemonade for myself with no problems. I'm certainly not white knuckling it. Why not go back now and read some of my earlier posts.
Thanks anyway for your kind concerns.

W.

Yes, Eddiebuckle: The reason I posted this thread was to shed some light on denial. Denial,as you say, is the heart of the matter. And denial is fierce. I am not in denial now. I am not scared now. But I was in denial for years and years and during those years I was not scared enough. And when I look back on all that I'm like a man who thinks back to how, many many years ago his life and everything he had was in deadly peril. And he thinks, "What turned me around?" How did I ever get myself out of that?" And then it occurs to me, "Maybe I didn't do that. Maybe something or some one else did that!" I'll never know. But by God I made it back. I'm not scared now. I have not the slightest desire to drink but I do have memories. Yes I do have memories...
Getting out of denial is half the battle. My whole purpose behind this thread was to say that, to show, at least for me, how difficult that was, how subtle and tenacious the addiction was, how perilous the whole thing was. You think you're in recovery but often you're not. I have no simple solutions to offer except to say this: the best way to get out is to be honest with yourself and the best way to do that is to be honest with others about yourself. The best way to be honest with others is to join a group. It doesn't have to be AA but AA is worth a try. If not that, then some other group. And some kind of a program that you can work.

W

As long as I kept relapsing, I was in denial. When I finally realized deep in my soul that I could never drink again it was a relief. It was the beginning of getting out of the fear and loss and loneliness of alcoholism. Now I come here to get and give strength and hope. And helping to keep others sober keeps me sober too as it makes me realize - again - where I came from and how badly I don't want to go back there.:)

Your welcome, W.

I've already read (some) of your posts, and threads, you've been on SR awhile, and so I know of you from your shares already.

Good to know you're thinking about the causes and effects of denial and bringing light to bear on those challenges.

I never looked on my own alcoholism and journey in sobriety through a lense of comparing myself to surviving soldiers from wars, such as WW2 for example, but I can understand your intended meaning about guilt. In my own past, guilt suffering was a huge imagined player in my getting drunk. I also struggled with dumping guilt in my early months in sobriety.

Its not for me to judge you. I'll take your expressed word for it that my concerns are over-the-top. I think someone with your length of sobriety experience knows when to call a spade a spade, you know? Good to know, and thanks for letting me know you appreciated my share.

Cheers!

RobbyRobot:
Thanks so much. It is nice that we recovering alcoholics should be so concerned about one another. In another context I have said that at times I have felt like Coleridge's Ancient Mariner who, having gone on what might be called a spiritual journey, finally reached home, a safe harbor, his sufferings at an end and yet he cannot resist taking his friend by the arm and relating his tale. He is home now, safe and as happy as possible, but he can never be the same. And at the end of that piece I wrote about my journey there is a quote from Martin Luther King, "Free at last! Thank the Lord Almighty! I'm free at last!"
Every good wish to you my friend and fellow traveler. There may be more than one path up Mt. Fuji...

W.

Rotinaj: As has been suggested, why not try AA or if that makes you feel uncomfortable, some other program which offers some group discussion and companionship. You can get well if you want to since many others have done so. They will helo you. And the many caring and concerned folks on this website will help you too. Find out what works for you and then work that, what ever it is. Just don't drink, one day at a time. Try not to think back and try not to think ahead. Focus on today. Good luck.

W.

Robby... I just have to say & not just click "Thank You" for those last two posts. In a word AWESOME! :scoregood

Congrats on all of the things you have overcome & learned to live with in your life and most importantly your sobriety & happiness. Thank you for sharing your journey with us, it is very inspiring.

Sincerely ~ NB

Hi Rotinaj

Welcome to SR :)

You'll get more response if you start your own thread - just hit the big blue new thread button on the top left hand side of the page here....

Newcomers to Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

as for how to fix it - support is important I think and coming here is a great start :)
D

RobbyRobot: I just want you to know that I've reread your posts and want to say how much I admire you for dealing so well with all you've been through. You must have a very powerful higher power. You are blessed. You and I have reached a similar place- you perhaps through a more conventional Christian approach than I. But what you must feel and believe in is there for me too, with every sunset, each poem that I have loved, the music which is dear to me. I have seen it in the faces, in the eyes of those I have loved, some of whom have vanished. I see it in the eyes of my dog as he offers up his toys to me. It is all there. An alternate reality which cries out for our awareness. And it is this, and perhaps the spirit of some vanished friend who, renouncing heaven for awhile, came back to keep me from the precipice into which i might have fallen.
I have no fear now, but as I have said I have memories and from these and from what I know now, I should have been more fearful then, less confident of my recovery. I am confident that I will never drink again but I say this- that without the help I have received I would have been lost and for this I am truly grateful.

W.

W and NewBeginning,

I appreciate your kind words, thank you, friends.

I do have a unique powerful understanding of my higher power, and I only expect my relationship with my HP to yet grow and mature as the years continue to move me forward. My Christian beliefs and background have little meaning in relationship with my sober living. Christianity is something I share as a common classic belief with billions of others, while my higher power relationship and experiences are only for me and me alone. My Christianity is enhanced by my sober spiritual life, and not the other way around. Better for me to be a sober drunk rather than a drunk Christian, so to speak.

For all my sufferings, I've come to see and embrace the silver lining in each challenge before me, and with that comes the humility of knowing that each of us have the same personal challenges before us, although mine maybe somewhat more obvious in a physical manner than is general, we all have our own relative highest mountains and darkest abyss within us, and so to each of us, they are the highest and the deepest in all the universe, respectively, so we share equalities amongst ourselves is my understanding.

I appreciate that my most difficult days are no more difficult that the next guys most difficult days, and so I know equality exists as an essence and not simply as an idea in justice and morality. I too am inspired by other members experiences here in SR, as well as in my f2f life, even as I realize I am an inspiration for others in my turn. Life is what we make of it, and the greatest gift we can give to others is to live a well lived life that we share generously with others. None of us are suited to be islands in the vast seas of humanity, even though loneliness can be comforting at times, and isolating can be an oasis of sorts hidden away from the noise of life, we are at our best when we both love others and are loved by others. When drunk of course, love is meaningless to me. Spiritual Sobriety invites me to be lovable and to love others as I love myself.

My experiences of fear for me has always been my greatest challenge, and so I'm intimately involved with living in the spirit of having a practical resolution in answer to my fears. With that understanding I'm grateful for the illness which is my alcoholism for otherwise I would not have the depth of experience I enjoy and can now earnestly bring to bear against my fears. Truly spoken, as shared by Roosevelt in March of 1933 - "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." I'm a great believer of that powerful motto.

I am touched by your simple examples of the discovery of love in the everyday experiences of your day to day life, W. Thanks for the words from your heart shared in this thread. I'm glad you are not at the mercy of your fears, and you understand and embrace that the everlasting quality of true spiritual sobriety cannot be forsaken, lost, or otherwise destroyed by having the worst of possible and darkest days. Sobriety is not a fragile experience that is easily overtaken by our misfortunes in any day of hardship and sorrow. In sobriety we are blessed. Your in a good place W, and thats a beautiful thing, yes? :)

Yeah, NewBeginning, awesome for sure. Absolutely awesome, as you know too, is the sober spiritual life! YAY!! :)

That's nice, RobbyRobot: I must admit that I have never been a conventional person. That is I doubt that I would qualify as a Christian in the ordinarily accepted sense if I believe also that I am in part a Buddhist, in part of believer in the Tao, or in some of the teachings of Islam. As I grow older I sense increasingly a separate spiritual reality coexistent with our phenomenal world. I think I have said this before but I shall say it again. A separate reality, accessible at times by genius and also ordinary mortals, often inspired by great prophets and teachers who have somehow been able to open a window into that other world. And I sense that the Buddhists may be correct in thinking that there are some who may renounce an entry into Nirvana in order to return to help others, still lost in darkness. I believe that some persons in my family who have been gone now for 40 years or so may have in some way been there to help me. Otherwise I might not have survived.
Are these fanciful thoughts? Nothing more than poetic visions? All that we know is that they have been sensed by others for thousands of years and today we are being told by some cosmologists of parallel universes, infinite in number. If reality is so strange, so redundant then is a belief in a coexisting spiritual world nothing but a poetic fancy?
One thing is certain, we shall find out, find out when we die. And, if we are wrong, if there is nothing there, is that something to fear or is it enough to have lived, to have survived, to have returned from the abyss, to find happiness, to have shared that with others. For however brief a time to have lived in the sunlight...
If I have repeated myself is it any different than a monk in some remote land saying a mantra over and over? If God should choose to repeat himself in multitudes of parallel universes then perhaps I may be forgiven an occasional redundancy.

W.

I would think you could never be sure. In reality it is the people who are able to drink socially and reasonably are the ones with the peace of mind. Because they are not struggling with anything. They are just living. The one who permanently gives up something that he/she feels they "love" for lack of a better term is the one with the struggle. I have a friend from high school who is entirely and completely sober for 15 years now. He WAS definately a major problem drinker, and should never touch alcohol again ever. But he has an interesting approach. He basically says to me that he "reserves the right to drink again at some point, if he feels like it." Now I now, he NEVER should. And I believe that he knows this as well, and actually won't do it. But for some reason, in his case, it seems to me that having a "I reserve to the right to drink if I want at some point" position actually helps him. I have other friends that used to drink 6 to 12 beers per night, every day in their 20s when they first got out of college. They realized they had a problem, and had to do something. BUT they simply were not going to give it up forever. In their cases they made a hard rule that they would only drink alcohol on Friday or Saturday night, sometimes both but not always. They would have as many as 6 beers but only those nights. Now, unless they are lying to me, they have been able to do that for close to 20 years now. Me, I am kind of a mess. I go years (even ten years at one point) without ANY drop of alcohol. Then I starting drinking and I drink 6 beers every day for years, then I quit for 12 days, start again, etc. Over and Over and Over....

I disagree.

I've moved on from a bad, toxic, relationship I had for 20 years. I've learned a lot of things and grown, I've been given many gifts in my recovery, not the least of which is a lasting joy and a sense of peace in my life no matter what might happen on any given day.

I'm comfortable with how I am and I can look at myself in the eyes in the mirror again.

My life is the best it's ever been. I have peace of mind, I'm not struggling with anything.

And all I had to do was give up drinking :)

I'm not missing drinking - in any way shape or form.

I hope you'll decide to give yourself the chance to see that perspectives can change LSZ.
D