Alcoholism- "Merely a symptom"?
 

Occasionally I have heard folks say, "You know, I'm not really an alcoholic. My drinking is merely a symptom. I'm really suffering from depression". Or "I'm really bi-polar and my doctors are still working on getting my prescriptions right." Or maybe, "I was a victim of child abuse. I'm having therapy to deal with that and when that succeeds I won't have to worry about drinking any more."
I'm not a doctor but I do know how to read. Often, very often, it seems, there is a label on those prescription bottles. I know because for years I took antidepressants. The label says, "Do not drink alcohol along with this medication." I have also been told that alcohol is a very effective depressant. Yet a I often drank when I was taking antidepressants and "surprise!" sometimes the antidpressants didn't work! I suspect that the same may be true for bi-polar medications. Of course I didn't tell my doctor that I was still drinking. And I don't recall his giving me a urine test to make sure I was telling the truth.
As for the "I was a victim of child abuse (and my drinking is merely a symptom of that)!" although I can't recall taking that line, I do remember saying something about a "toxic parent" (after a book title by that name) and saying, "You know, I think I drink because I can't forget all those suicides in the family, etc. etc." And the psychiatrist would buy into that (actually it was I who was on the "buying" end of his services) and would give me prolonged psychiatric therapy so that when my "underlying issues" were resolved, I would "no longer have the urge to drink." This went on for twenty years.
Because, you see, I wasn't "really" an alcoholic! My alcoholism was "merely a symptom"!
How often have I heard this in the rooms! How often do I still hear it today. "He's not really an alcoholic, you know! The doctors are still trying to get his meds straightened out. When they do he won't be drinking."
Isn't a reality check sometimes in order both for the patients and for their doctors? For the patients to read that little label on the prescription bottle, "Do not drink when taking this medication" (or it probably won't work). For the doctors "Better give that patient a urine test to make sure that he or she is leveling with you!"
And maybe, after the "underlying issues" are resolved (if that ever happens) perhaps (surprise!) a person may discover that, despite the "issues", he or she is still an alcoholic and needs some sort of a program to get into recovery. After all, isn't it possible that, since alcoholics sometimes get heart trouble, even cancer, they still may be alcoholics despite all that?

Wpainterw ,:headbange

well, I don;t know how general the observation is, but my experience matches yours painter.

I definitely had underlying issues and reasons that led me to drinking in the first place...but I definitely became an alcoholic as well.

D

I definitely felt that I drank to medicate my depression and my self diagnosed (thank you, Dr. Google :)) ADHD. And that's why I couldn't quit for ages. Because I was working on my anxiety etc but still drinking. Drinking less, mind you. But still drinking and not quite getting it.

When I made myself quit 'no matter what', I then found that my other symptoms magically abated.

I think there is a definite comorbidity. Not necessarily the cause-effect relationship I once believed.

I think for me anyway I lacked (and still lack) coping tools to deal with things. I only ever really learned to drink.

I am an alcoholic. By that I mean that I am wired differently when it comes to the physical and mental effects of alcohol compared to most people. When I took a drink then it set of an immediate craving for more, more, more! Also I could take huge amounts of booze for my size right from the age of 14. Also my hangovers weren't that bad for the amount of booze that I would put away. I used to get a much more 'euphoric' hit from booze than most people, I know this to be true by talking to many, many average people back in my drinking days. I would sit alone and wait for that euphoria to hit on about the 3rd pint and then I would be off. I even had the natural ability to be able to gulp drinks down incredibly fast, I always won drinking competiitions. I used to down whole pints alone in about 10 seconds, and that's fizzy lager! one after the other after the other. I have many physical properties which enabled my alcoholism to progress. If drinking was an olympic sport then I would have been snapped up at a young age as having that raw 'natural' talent! ha-ha.

I also suffered from depression and other related mental health 'issues' and found booze to be of great comfort to me in giving me some restbite from this.

For me then even though my mental health very good now, most of the time, then I would still have the physical properties of being an alcoholic that I have talked about.

I just used to loved drinking, that's the short of it! Yes, I'm an alcoholic.

Incidentally I drank and drugged heaviest whilst on anti depressants. It's hard to say really what is what when you're drinking and drugging really heavily. They definately helped my comedowns from coke and Pills though. I remember thinking how I should feeling alot worse than I did, I think my really bad comedowns were where I wasn't on anti-depressants. Basically trying to sort out mental health problems if you're still drinking and drugging heavily is a total waste of time, in my experience. By getting sober and working a recovery program than my mental health improved greatly however once I had accepted my alcoholism and was 9 months sober then I worked with mental health professionals to address underlying stuff that I knew I used to medicate with alcohol.

peace

i've heard the "but a symptom" line a million times and know that it applies to me as well, but not in the way you described. the alcoholism, drug addiction, chemical dependencywas merely a symptom of the disease that i have, which is the disease of addiction. Other symptoms emerge in me now in spite of a long period of abstinence. Drinking or doing a drug will return to me active addiction and all the horror that comes along with it, but mere abstinence does not "cure" my disease of addiction. It is always with me, and requires daily vigilance and a spiritual program.

Augustwest:
I'm a little confused. It is hard for me to separate "addiction" from "chemical dependency". Once chemical dependency has begun it has been customary to refer to the patient as having become "addicted".
In any case I am interested that, although some of those who responded to this thread said that they drank while taking antidepressants, no one seemed to indicate whether their physician customarily took urine samples while prescribing antidepressants. If alcohol is a depressant, do antidepressants really work on someone who is drinking? Do they work on persons who are taking prescriptions for bipolar medication? If the physician did not take urine samples, then was it naive to assume that the patient was telling the truth when he or she said she was not drinking? And if someone spends money for antidepressants and drinks is the money spent for antidepressants a poor use of funds? Like buying ice cubes at the South Pole or stocking up on firewood in the Belgian Congo?
Incidentally, one of the "reasons" I got into drinking when I was relatively young was something I haven't disclosed yet (Now the truth can be told!). When I was a lad I was very shy with women (back in those days we were allowed to call them "girls"). When I had a few drinks I found that that shyness disappeared. The more I drank the more interesting women became! Thankfully we did not use the term "to party" back then. But that's what we did! Thus began a lifetime of adventures, both good and, predictably, many of them bad!

W.

This is the whole "which came first, the chicken or the egg" thing. I would agree that very possibly the drinking started out as just a symptom. But over time the drinking became an issue too. I still don't know which came first for me: the anxiety or the alcoholism. But they certainly fueled each other. But now for me to go out and try drinking normally again would be like trying to get the toothpaste back in the tube. It just wouldn't happen.

My drinking started out as a "sympton", I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and I think I was born chemically depressed, alcohol alieveated the pain for many years. I've been treated for PTSD and depression and taken medication for it but discussion was never held about my drinking because when asked I never acknowledged being anything more than a 'social drinker'. Funny thing though, once I quit drinking I was finally able (nearly 40 yrs after the fact) to forgive not only myself but my childhood abuser, and through the forgiveness and sobriety my PTSD and depression lifted and I haven't needed and meds in over 2 yrs.

As someone in dual-diagnosis treatment I believe that sure, one of the many causes that made me prone to becoming addicted to drugs was my mental illness symptoms. Yet I think there were other factors like my environment, social circle and the nature of prolonged drug use helped to contribute to my addiction.

I might be different than most, but drinking is the problem. I loved to drink, and then drinking caused the problems and created the depression. I drank to have fun, to mourn, to party, to be alone, to pay my bills etc. The problem was I have alcoholic tendencies, so when I drank I drank until I was drunk always. I have thought long and hard about this over the years, but I can honestly say that any major problems I have encountered in life were due to my drinking, not the other way around. Drinking was the cause.

As far as the chemical dependency vs addiction. I see the difference because I have a very addictive personality. So my addictive personality rolls over to whatever I am doing at the time, whether it be alcohol or chewing tobacco, food, workingout, reading, golf....you name it, if I like it I will fixate on it and continue it with a vengence. Once I get in that mindset I have a hard time changing direction with anything. It works very well if the action is something positive in my life, but it could be deadly if it is something that is detrimental to my health.

Zencat: I hear you on this one. I consider drinking a very complex situation when it comes to "causation". Thus there can be mental factors, childhood abuse, genetic, cultural, personality characteristics, so called addictive personality, a whole mixed bag, including just the urge to get a buzz on. But the thing which continues to puzzle me, as I have said, is why booze, a depressant, is so often used by persons who are at the same time taking antidepressants and why doctors who prescribe these medications may continue to naively believe their patients when they say they aren't drinking and may fail to give urine tests to confirm that. I didn't want to get into the "what's the cause" issue as much as to raise the "say what's going on" issue as regards doctor and patient.

W.

Why blame the doctors? What good does it do? If we're addicted, we know the solution -- and blaming or resenting or being angry with others isn't the solution.

I have some whopper mental health issues. But addicts are great manipulators. I was an expert at it. I could push my shrink's buttons and get whatever amounts of benzos or antidepressants I wanted, and would downplay my drinking at the same time.

So are doctor's wrong to prescribe the drugs? That's what shrinks do -- see you for 20 minutes and scribble on a prescription pad. And we truck merrily off to the drug store with the "solution" in hand.

We're sick in many ways, especially those with dual diagnoses. It takes figuring out how to be a better person without booze or drugs to gain anything from treatment, either pharmacological or psychotherapeutic.

I told my doctors I drank and smoked pot. They still wrote the scripts. Are they at fault for not drug testing me to determine how much I drank or smoked? On some level you could argue yes. But what does it matter? Will it change where we're at today?

Addiction is as old as when cavemen found fermenting fruit pooling in the mud. But doctors are there to ease our pain, mental and physical, and we knew it and we treated them like Pez dispensers.

Own it and let it go. It's resentment and anger. I had to pray for my shrink. Blaming him was seriously screwing with my recovery.

Hey, painter

I re-read your thread and see that my post may seem as if it was directed at you. It wasn't! It was directed at me! Thanks for your post.

The real irony is that the shrink who went along for my "need" for 20 milligrams of Klonopin a day and a boat load of antidepressants is a regional expert in his field, but to get over the trauma of a 10-year run on benzos and booze I seriously blamed him and had to accept my own responsibility.

You obviously have dealt with the fact you weren't honest with the doctor regarding how much you drank.

You get it. I just got it not too long ago. Thanks again.

This old thread is a good topic.

I am in the camp of those who would say their drinking is (was) probably but a symptom, but not as an excuse. In other words, I am facing the idea that I can't drink properly. The alcoholism was a pseudo-answer for something else underneath. By "answer," I don't mean "solution," since it didn't solve anything. It just gave the illusion that things were better, especially if it helped to eliminate problems on the periphery like insomnai or otherwise put in place a routine (and one that included the buzz feeling at that).

So if I say my alcoholism is a symptom of something else, it's not so I can pretend I will be able to drink again; it's just that my problems with myself manifested themselves in the form of drinking, which eventually became a problem big enough to look at all on its own. So stopping the drinking is one step in a big stairway, I guess.

And I probably won't be able to get back to you on how well I have done at correcting the underlying problems until I make it to heaven, if it's out there. In the meantime I will stay away from drinking.

I am similar to neomarxist, my body reacts to alcohol differently than people who are not alcoholics. So I can never have a drink or the cycle of destruction will start.
That being said I suffer from depression and I never would have been able to manage it without getting sober and recovery. I monitor my mental health because I believe that could be a trigger for me. I ve been fortunate that I'm strong in my recovery so that I have not relapsed during some of my depression relapses.
SH

Hi MemphisBlues:
It's not a question of "blaming". That's just part of denial. But it is a question which remains very meaningful entirely apart from "blaming" and entirely apart from the overriding need to realize that recovery will always remain the primary responsibility of the alcoholic along with those who help that person on his or her way.
So what is the question then? I think that many physicians today would recognize that in the past the level of training for doctors in alcoholism and other addictive illnesses was shockingly low. This was probably due to the assumption that alcoholism could not be successfully treated, that alcoholics were just "bad" and that they would never get well unless they mended their ways. Often physicians made the problem worse, like the one who gave me an "open" (perpetually refillable) prescription for liquid chloral hydrate early on. Or the one who gave me a prescription for seconal to be taken along with sodium amytal to "help" insomnia. And the one who gave me a refillable prescription for 100 Xanax. And the one who opined that alcoholism is always merely a symptom for an underlying sexual conflict and invited me to join his sex conflict therapy group.
So, rather than "blame" physicians, I can still say this: We need and are probably getting better informed physicians today than we had forty years ago and, secondly, it's still important to find a physician who is familiar with what is known today about alcoholism and how to treat it. I'm not a physician but I am very much of the view that a primary responsibility of a doctor is to emphasize the importance of a patient's seeking help from some kind of a group of fellow alcoholics, whether AA or some similar alternative. Along with this should come regular urine and blood tests to confirm that recovery is continuing and that denial has not set up a barrier between patient and physician. I take any "blame" for delaying my own recovery but in retrospect it might have been a little easier if the medical help was up to the standard that is increasingly available today.

W.

Just glanced through your post as i have very little time, but i know why i drank. It was situational. But, having said that, it quickly became a physical dependence, no doubt about it. Could i drink again? Perhaps. will I drink again? No.

Does the label alcoholic matter to me? No. I don't drink. That is it. That simple.

I believe I was born an alcoholic. I come from a long line on both sides of my family and now, most of the males are either in recovery or currently active.

Once I got into recovery and became a recovered alcoholic, I'm still having a lot of problems with me and how I think and act.

That being said is why for me, for this alcoholic, alcohol was but a symptom of my bigger problem, me and my alcoholic body and brain.

Kjell

Trying to analyze the reasons I drank reminds me of the fellow who ran through the jungle trying to find the mosquito whose bite gave him malaria. Who cares?? You have malaria! Treat it!

I could analyze my drinking to death here. Focusing on why I drank and how I manipulated doctors and all my other "issues" are living in the problem. I know the problem. I'm an alcoholic. I need to live in the solution. What am I doing about it?

This has come up lately again for me. I've seen some very sad statistics relating the incidence of abuse in childhood to alcoholism. While I can't claim that, I did have a few other factors present that made early life difficult. The picture can be complicated by many things.

I do regard myself however as an outright alcoholic, and I sought specific treatment for it, as I sought specific treatment for my depression and anxiety disorders. Speaking for myself, I don't like them overlapping too much, but I feel that I addressed both in the appropriate way.

joedris: Yes, I do like the bit about the fellow in the jungle trying to find the mosquito who bit him. And I agree that the main thing, no doubt the "only thing" as Jogi Berra might have said, is "What do we do about it now?" Not what "caused" it. Except maybe if somehow the question of the "cause" becomes relevant to what we do about it. And there's a trap here for the unwary. For example if it is assumed that "As soon as I fully realize that I drank because my parents abused me as a child then maybe I can drink again." Or "I'm bipolar and as soon as they get my meds straghtened out then I'm off to the liquor store." Or.... Or.... Well you can fill in the rest. "Dr. Denial, your patient is waiting in cubicle three, no longer being abused by his dad but dead drunk!"

W.

I know for me, personally, I wanted to know what was wrong with me so I could then treat myself properly.

Kjell

Thanks Memphis Blues! I'm really impressed with your insight. Yes, part of the denial is that we tend to blame others. As you say I was often not honest with the doctor. Didn't give him the whole story. I was addicted and the part of me that wanted to protect the addiction didn't want to level with the outside world.
It took me a long while to see that. Too long. You seem to be seeing that yourself. One of the wonderful things about recovery is that gradually you regain your ability to introspect, be honest with yourself and with others, see what you've really been up to. That's what makes some folks feel ashamed. Part of the program is to help with that shame. Nothing to be ashamed of. Something to be proud of now that you can see a way out. Thanks again.

W.

There's so much here that rings true for me. Actually, I did a lot of really wild, fun and stupid things last summer fueled by booze and pot, but there was another factor in the equation... Cymbalta. Neomarxist hit it right there and it was different and worse when I was on antidepressants.

So realizing the problem, after having some friends of mine appalled at the stories I told them (none of it seemed to be a problem to me at all- what the heck, sleeping with an 18 year old, he was legal and he loved it, what a compliment for me!!! Ouch, was I that stupid?)

I did what needed to be done, stopped the Cymbalta, stopped seeing the doctor, stopped playing and partying and fell into an ever deepening depression. Now I'm going back to the doctor again next week to be totally honest about what happened and try to deal with my depression because my life is completely, soberly joyless...

There's something about the combo between the meds and drinking. For me the drinks always have to be caffeinated too, because it's no fun to get tired... drinking is a problem even if it's not all the time, but I can say that I had many pre-existing problems since I was a child before I ever drank. I think I'm addicted to action, thrills, attention, trouble, something- I feel like I should use this energy for something more constructive!

I just love the first post Painter, how bold to tell it like it is!

O.K. Presstoe: Take up skiing. My grandson is into "extreme skiing". He likes to go off the trail and ski through the woods. A few months ago he hit a tree and broke his arm. A reality check? No way! Now he just says he's "more careful" not to hit a tree and he's into doing flips (somersaults). You like wild stuff? This is it. I try to tell him that statistically there's a problem, like if there is even a 2 percent chance of hitting a tree. But that's the way alcoholics think (he's not one). They figure they can outwit the system somehow. ("I'll be real careful driving along so I don't see those red lights flashing in my rear view mirror!"). I remember once that happened and I gave the cop a sob story about returning from the funeral of my dead aunt (actually this was true- I drank a lot at her funeral). He took pity on me and didn't run me in. But later I got a DUI but beat the rap by hiring a lawyer recommended by the judge.
Living on the edge. Statistics. I gather that on a roulette wheel there's one slot with a double 00 and when the ball ends up in that slot the banker gets all the money on the table. Every now and then that happens. What if someone said that in the great roulette wheel of life when the ball ends up in a certain slot everyone (or maybe just you) dies. Would you still play on?
I used to like living on the edge. Hooked on my own adrenalin I guess. But now I'm old and tired. Run out of energy. A bit boring but a lot safer. :headbange

W.

You're welcome, thank you Neo!

Hey Painter, I was actually thinking of taking up skateboarding, which would be funny because I'm not really coordinated. There are a bunch of youtube videos on step by step basics that you can start inside your home (so I don't look like a dork!)

We have snow where I'm at but not much hills... I like your story, that sounds like me. I'm afraid of DUI's, I never got one, but should have. That's over now, it's on the list of major promises I have made- no drinking and driving. I should admit that I still drink, but I'm debating that too, talking with all of you helps me see that as a possible reality that wouldn't be so bad!

XOXOXO

Thanks Prestoe:
When you see the doc you might ask him/her whether it is a good idea to drink when you're taking meds.
Many alcoholics are risk takers but not all risk takers are alcoholics. I think I've pretty much done enough risk stuff in my lifetime. Skateboarding is cool. Probably not life threatening. Wear your baseball hat on backwards, etc. Try not to swallow your bubble gum. If you live, you might end up deaf from listening to loud rock music but DON'T WORRY! BE HAPPY! (Well maybe...):headbange

W.

I would say it's been a symptom of mine as well.

I don't know ... I mean it started so young back before I had REAL issues it seemed , but I guess the feeling of not really fitting in was always an issue.

Being an only child and spending alot of time alone or with parents , Being the youngest and smallest throughout school days.... Having my daughter at 17 and custody at 19 and never really feeling like I fit in. At 23 PTA meetings I was the kid surrounded by 30 somethings .... Trying to hang out with people my own age was bar hopping and various drug attempts.

Throughout those years I would overdo it on Saturday and then spend all week feeling guilty for decisions that were irresponsible when trying to raise my daughter. Or coach my daughters softball team while hungover from the night before out with friends and running on a few hours of sleep.

My alcoholism really started and was for most of my life one night a week Binge drinking.

Then after my divorce 4 years ago it really amped up to a daily 6 pack and in the past year turning to Vodka at lunch time and then more vodka after work.
Mostly out of a feeling of loneliness and boredom I think. But also as an escape of stress and worry. To fit in and feel comfortable around people ( I really could open up and be very social ).

Right now I'm doing better with some of this , but on the weekends my kids aren't home I'm in real danger of saying " **** it , no one is here and I got nothing to do , so I might as well drink " But I think that's more symptom of the depression.

That's the hardest part for me at the moment.


But saying all these things somehow feels like I'm trying to make excuses for my drinking and my immature , irresponsible actions when drinking.... and that's now what I want or who I want to be anymore.