I can only speak for myself. When I was drinking and using I was quite literally killing myself. No I do not see that as any sort of growth or development to a better way of life. If I kept drinking how I was, I likely would have been dead in another month. That might be where we differ? I don't know.

I also have an independent mind and personality and have not involved a group or program in my journey of recovery. It makes me sad that because you're hearing a lot of the same life experiences you equate that to us being some sort of sheep within the recovery industry. Assuming that, makes me feel like it completely takes away from MY recovery experience, my life experience with addiciton, and MY individuality.

Keep drinking then. Don't recover, stay an individual and die a drunk. That doesn't matter to me, honestly. My life isn't worth my pride or my idea that I'm somehow better or different than anyone else. I'm not. Parts of me, yes.. but shared experiences and support from other people will never have the capability of destroying my individuality. You aren't any part of a recovery industry just because you were busted for a DUI and mandated into AA. So don't go to AA. Do the jail time. Come out and drink as much and as often as you want.

You can fight and hold on to this tooth and nail, disregard traditional, non traditional approaches, individual approaches to recovery and choose to drink until you die. We all have that free will. I wish for other outcomes for you, not even knowing you. Maybe one day you will too.

This is America, and you have options. My best suggestion to you is to tell the judge to take his court ordered "treament industry" mandate and those court paper slips you'll have to get signed at the "cultish AA meetings" and shove them up his ass. Problem solved.

I'll do what Im told I suppose. In the mean time I will work to unelect every lawmaker and judge that tries to shove through draconian leglislation that criminalizes and stigmatizes addicts instead of medical treatment. But that is for another place, so I wont debate it. I will focus on trying to remain positive to snarky comments.

Its not a concrete thing that I have made up my mind. I said repeatedly in other posts I see good and logical reasons to quit. I do have a problem. Please stop asking me why I am on a recovery website. I am here like anyone else looking for answers and information. I dont ask you why you are here. I dont question whatever you have done or what you think about addiction. You respond to my posts. If you think Im lost dont respond then. You are putting words into my mouth and Im not going to allow that. I never said I didnt think highly of others who do, nor have I ever said I dont want anyone elses help. I am here for information and opinions. Im not looking for sympathy and I will continue to try and keep it positive.

Im just saying everyone is different. And I appreciate your reply. I never said you or anybody else is some "sheep" in the recovery industry. My opnions are my opinions. I speak for no one else but myself. If my opinion makes you feel that it takes everything away that you have worked for then maybe, very respectfully, a thicker skin is in order.

I cant speak for everyone, but many of us have been through literal hell and back in our addictions, metally physically and others spirituality. So someone's opinion shouldnt be much of a blow to one's program. I dont know what the future hold for me. I hope maybe one day I will "get it" as they say. I truly appreciate your support and Im sorry if my opinions are somehow holding back your personal recovery. I didnt realize my opinion meant much at all. Im just a random person out there like anyone else.

Anyway, I will be positive on this board from now on and I wish the best for you as well.

Don't even ask my why I came back to read this thread, but I guess I'm hoping, like many others, that something I say will light a fire in your heart and cause you to find a reason to want sobriety. All I can say is...what you have been doing is obviously not working. It's gotten you to where you are now. Maybe, just maybe, you can convince yourself that it's time to try another way. Whether that way is AA or LifeRing, or Smart Recovery, or anything else, is your decision. Personally, I don't use an official program to maintain sobriety. I can't deny that those programs have helped many people, but they're just not for me. I've managed to be sober for a little over 13 months on my own. I don't fret about drinking, I don't crave alcohol, I just managed to find interests that allow me to feel fulfilled and not desire to drink. I'm not miserable and I'm not constantly fighting cravings. I'm not sure how to explain it. When you are ready to stop drinking, you'll know. You won't have to come to a forum like this and argue or debate. You'll just know. Until that day comes, there's not really a whole lot we can do for you. As I said before, I wish the best for you.

Thanks for your reply. Maybe you came back because I post interesting things that make people think and want to respond to. Otherwise I wouldnt get many comments. I am not here to argue or debate, yet I see thousands of other posts do just that, so maybe Im unique. Who knows. I thank you and also hope to get that fire in my heart. That is cool about your ability to stay sober without a program. I probably would not use a program either, so maybe I will learn something here one day. You sentence "Im not sure how to explain it" is exactly why Im here. I cant explain why I continue to want to drink either. Like you cant explain why you dont want to. I see a few people end the post like yours. Im not looking for anyone to do anything for me, nor am I looking for sympathy. Im looking for answers and insight I could possibly use. Thank you again:thanks

Well this is just my opinion but I think you are simply miserable right now. You don't want to do anything to help yourself except blame others for your situation. I honestly think you are jealous and resentful of others who have found sobriety here because your plan to be independent and do it on your own has resulted in a DUI + Suicide Attempt.

Your smug and insulting condescention of others here may make you feel superior but does not help others in their recovery here and only serves as a disruption. All advice and suggestions that have been offered to you have been sumarily dismissed and rejected because you are somehow different from everybody else.

Since all of the sobriety programs here are rip-offs as far as you are concerned, would you care to enlighten us on your Sobriety plan that has worked so well? I'm sorry to put this to you so bluntly and I'm sure the Moderators will delete this shortly. If it offends you, perhaps you should get a Thicker Skin? Just my opinion.

I hope the mods dont delete it. I appreciate your opinion and criticisms as much as anyone elses. You have labeled me a lot of things im your post, but thats ok with me. I can take a good look in the mirror and criticism too. The same could be said of your post that it is disrputive. I personally dont think it is and I appreciate your feedback.

My head is spinning from the just the first page...So I just sorta skimmed the rest. So I apologise out the gate if I may comment to som,ething and missed the answer or whatever.

First..I have absolutely zero tolerance or sympathy for ANYONE who drives under the influence. One sip or one bottle..It doesnt matter to me. I could care less if its illegal or not. I know too many that have been killed by people who just had a "couple" and didnt think they were going to hurt anyone either.
Bottom line..You were driving while buzzed, tipsy, drunk, just a little bit of a tingle. It doesnt matter. You did it. So yes..I think you deserve whatever legal issues you get.
As for the suicidal thing. Many of us have been there. Some of us werent so lucky to have the cops stop us and beat the **** out of us to stop us from attempting it. Like smacked mentioned..I would imagine the reason for that force from the cops would be from the "something". Cant be mad at that either. I think if I had to deal with someone who had a "something" in their hand..I would have done the same thing.
I understand you have changed your tone from the initial post.
I am not trying to be judgemental. I am just bein real.
Too many of us here have been right where you are and further.
I dont think any of us really "wanted" to quit doing whatever our addiction was. I know I really didnt. But after awhile of doing the same thing you are going through and talking about. It gets so tiring and old. So yes..You learn to want it.
There are certain topics I never debate about. Thats religion, sports, politics and recovery programs. I find it just a huge headache and a no win situation.
It like chasing your tail.
I dont do meetings. I dont believe in 12 steps. I dont have a religion. I pretty much march to the beat of my own drum most of the time. Sometimes that works for me..sometimes not.
But I will always keep an open mind.
No one here is going to judge you. Even tho it seems like it sometimes.
It is all support and shares from experience. Their own personal experience. No one here is going to pressure you to do anything a certain way.
All we are asked of here is to respect one another.
Suicide is never a good thing. Any which way you look at it.
I am more concerned about that than anything.
The DUI you can fix thank goodness. Very lucky you didnt hurt anyone.
No one is a fortune teller to say what could have or couldnt have happened.
Bruises and scrapes heal. Cops are pricks sometimes. But given the situaiton it is sorta understandable.
But wanting to hurt yourself is something that goes alot deeper.
And that has some serious consequences that you may never come back from.
It all does really..Drinking, driving and drinking.

I dont know...I am just rambling now.

You are not the first and def not the last to go through something like this.
If you dont want people judging you. Try keeping an open mind yourself and maybe you might find that motivation to want to stop.
Obviously drinking isnt having apositive impact on you.

I hope you stick around and learn to listen to all angles. Tunnel vision gets us nowhere.
You might learn something. And I am sure we can learn from you as well.

i was kinda wondering something about this too... are ppl only welcome here if they're actively trying to quit drinking or drugs or whatever? i know i dont want to quit.. i guess im just looking for reasons why i should.. i like drinking and i like drugs.. i just dont wanna kill someone drinking and driving, or spend my entire life ****** up and then realize that im a old and ugly loser.. my habits havent really caused that many problems for me yet

YET! The all too common word.
I am sure you have seen and heard that it is progressive.
I didnt hurt anyone either. It took a good 10 yrs or so before it really started to impact my life negatively. Or maybe that long before it bothered me. Here I am 22 yrs later and I wish I would have found something like this when I was at "yet".
I am only 34. I have been an addict since I was 12.
If thats you in that pic. I would imagine you are very young yet.
Very impressionable. I hope some recovery rubs off on you.

I am going to say awesome post first and foremost. Like you said some things will be debated for ever and ever, so I will say I disagree on a couple points, but overall I really liked your post. You are not rambling at all. You make good points on a lot of stuff. Believe me I have a drinking problem which probably contributes heavily to my depressions and anxiety.


Im not drunk 24/7. I have a job. I sort of have a g/f. I do the base necessities. But right now Im stuck because Im going to be forced to do things I dont agree with. And while its not the end of the world, its that huge a deal to me. I will do what I need to do I guess. Anway, you really bring a good conversation.

Im in the same camp as you. without the drug part. Just the drinking for me. Yet I know it will probably kill me oneday. There are exceptions. I have a couple relatives who smoked and drank well into their 70's but thats not the norm. My dad died early from just smoking, and I can fell in my body(Im 34 ) that it is taking a toll on m too. I used to be athletic and a runner. Now I get out of breath and have a beer belly, whcih is a lot to trudge up hills with, since I lost my license. I never wanted to kill someone either. and I always drank at home, never out, because I did not want to drink and drive. Just got caught when I happened to be suicidal one time.

I guess my point is I cant see how someone who has addiction and a suicide attempt is punished rather than helped. And many on here would applaud and have that I should be punished for it. That is all I will say about that, as Im trying to just share my experience.

Hi sara

SR is for anyone who wants to deal with their drinking or drugging, or for the families and friends of those people.

There's a lot of space in the phrase 'deal with'.

Even if you're not sure you want to stop right now, the fact you're here suggests to me you're worried a bit and want to learn a bit more about addiction, and maybe get some support.

That's why we're here.
Sometimes we might get a little off track, but none of us is perfect.

I wasn't sure I wanted to stop either when I got here - but the welcome and support I got when I did helped me make up my mind.

I hope it helps you to make up yours too.

D

I think I am really confused by a lot that you have said. Have you tried to recover from your alcohol problems before and not been able to have sustained recovery? Or are you talking about experience because you have worked in the field on the other side as a therapist and case manager?

I'm not a group individual and a lot of the concerns you are bringing up are things I struggled with and brought up often as reasons I would not stop drinking before I actually stopped. However, I realized in recovery in retrospect that much of those thought patterns were rationalizations created by my addict voice. I see a lot of alcoholic thought patterns in your posts; I have a feeling you are going to fight me on that statement. It isn't a judgment— I just see a lot of things that I used to do. You are completely able to recover outside the apparatus that is the recovery business. My biggest suggestion is to try to practice discerning your addict voice and ignoring it— it is that voice that is rationalizing you away from treatment and to keep drinking. Good luck.

First off I am starting to feel bad by crowding out other newcomers by all the posts to my threads. I have begun commenting on other posts and offering support to bump up their threads. My intentions were not to become a thread hog.

I am 34. In my 20's I didnt drink nor had any desire to. I started when I was about 17 at a friends house. and it does run in my family. Finish school and then worked my tail off in my 20's for about 3 years along with school. Those are the only two things I did. I dont do anything moderately, which probably explains my alcoholism as well. I wouldnt have called it recovery. I just have a problem with labeling terms like recovery. Its like one is a child and they will learn it and live it as how other's define it. It to me labels people.

And yes I was a therapist and a case manager. I worked in the mental health field for years as well as D/A, so I have a little more perspective than people might understand here. I wouldnt disagree with you about alcoholic thought patterns, other than that what is taught in most in and out pt rehabs, along with AA. Also the addict voice is a term used extensively in the rehab/AA/etc settings, which really has no scientific basis in neurochemistry or neurobiology. And certainly not in Psychiatry. There have been genetic studies as well as FMRI studies done with addicts that suggest a biological basis for the disease. That is why I really have a difficult time with "spiritual" basis for addiction. But I will not disparage anyone about it.



your quote"You are completely able to recover outside the apparatus that is the recovery business. My biggest suggestion is to try to practice discerning your addict voice and ignoring it— it is that voice that is rationalizing you away from treatment and to keep drinking." No offense at all, but you are contradicting yourself. If I am able to completely recover outside of the recovery business, why then would I need treatment? The addict voice is something that is pushed in rehab. I will say the rehab I went to had good food, at least. I will give them that. And again, I really appreciate your comments and input.

Originally Posted by liquidfireangel

i was kinda wondering something about this too... are ppl only welcome here if they're actively trying to quit drinking or drugs or whatever? i know i dont want to quit.. i guess im just looking for reasons why i should.. i like drinking and i like drugs.. i just dont wanna kill someone drinking and driving, or spend my entire life ****** up and then realize that im a old and ugly loser.. my habits havent really caused that many problems for me yet

no, anybody's welcome here. but if all you're looking for is a reason why you *should* be allowed to drive around drunk, you're probably not going to find it here. because the truth is, you (and me and everybody else) *shouldn't* be allowed to drive around drunk. It's not healthy for a society. there simply is no argument for it.

If you think your problems haven't caused anybody any problems yet, well, congratulations. I cannot say the same. But if you want it to stay that way, well, you're gonna have to surrender your licence on your own accord and never drive again. Because, sooner or later, you will hurt someone that way. Personally, I don't care. I was just fine with never driving again. but I knew I couldn't drive again. so, do what you will. I understand well the concept of dying this way, and, again, i was just fine with it. but for the sake of all that's good and pure, don' take nobody with you now. They ain't ask for it, you did.

And as far as the rest of this thread and where it's went, pick your program if you will. You can argue anything into the ground--He-, come by me, I'll play the game (I'm real good at arguin' :) with you. Tell me where & when, I can meet you anywhere in north South Central Los Angeles. Each program has a reason for being, and it's helped somebody. Pointless to explain how every one of them has a fault. If you don't wanna get sober, say so and be done with it. I'm fine with that, and I'm sure many others here would be too. I just dont' like seeing peoples' programs being disrespected when they're helping others get what they need.

Have a nice day! (I'm trying to be nice here...) Actually I feel pretty good...

I saw nowhere in her thread where she said she drove drunk. And you are bringing up your opinion and stating it as fact. I was told this was not allowed. You are telling her she needs to give up her license on her own accord, according to your opinion? Before she has even done anything?

You are telling a person they will hurt someone sooner rather than later based on your opinion? And I saw no disrespect by this poster to anybody's program. Full of judgement are you?

I thought this was a support and positive website only.

Here's my 2 cents for what its worth. If active drinkers want to come here and support and share a little common ground I don't see a problem, hell im in that group. But we have to realise that others here are in a serious battle with addiction and respect that. Ive been to too many alcohol related funerals to have nothing but respect for those who choose sobriety.