AVRT, Rational Recovery???
 

Anyone have any experience or knowledge on the subject?? I've checked out the website and it seems to be very anti-AA/NA. It also claims to be the magic bullet of problems with addiction. It seems to be too good to be true....way too simple! AVRT(addictive voice recognition technique) seems to have the belief that you can quit on your own w/o recovery groups or forums. Part of me wants to believe this is true, and the rest of me is very skeptical. I believe that everyone shares the same wish; living a happy "normal" life. Just confused about this whole recovery thing, in general. I'm sure I'm not alone. ANY feedback,experience, knowledge (pos or neg) about this AVRT, rational recovery would be greatly appreciated. Or any feedback, period. Luv you all!!!
Thanx!!!:wtf2

Welcome to SR, Phoof! I think AVRT can be a helpful technique and for some people may be enough in itself. SMART Recovery branched off from RR and offers a variety of cognitive tools for recovery as well as online meetings, forums, and f2f meetings in some areas. LifeRing is a secular support organization that encourages self-empowerment in recovery through the creation of a personalized recovery program or toolbox and peer support. They also have forums, online meetings, and f2f meetings in some areas. I've found both websites to be informative and helpful to my recovery.

Phoof...Welcome! I think I have explored almost every website there is on addiction...the internet has given us a wealth of information at our finger tips. I think that AVRT is extremely helpful as is Lifering and SOS. Each program gives us more insight into proper management of our addictions. Sobriety is indeed possible without meetings so you can believe it! Explore...read and learn the tools that will enable you to live a normal healthy life. Best of luck!

Hi Phoof,

I have the book Rational Recovery, which is an explanation of the program and how to use it, and The Small Book, which is their version of AA's Big Book. While I don't think AA is right for me, I wouldn't describe myself as anti-AA. The RR author/founder is DEFINITELY anti-AA. That's the only downside to his writings that I've discovered so far.

When I first bought and read Rational Recovery I literally felt like a weight had been lifted. I felt a glimpse of hope for the first time in a long time. I used the AA philosophy of "take what you need and leave the rest" as I read the book because I really didn't find it helpful to read all of his blatantly negative comments about the AA program. I don't care what he thinks about AA, I just want him to tell me how to use Rational Recovery! ;)

I DO think it can work. I do NOT believe it is too good to be true. I think it's all about finding what works best for YOU.

Thank you all!
 

I, too am a little turned off by the anti-AA overtones. On the other hand, what I've looked into it so far seems to be worth further investigating. Before I even posted this thread I had used that same quote (take... leave the rest). As I said earlier, we all have the same goal here and I appreciate the feedback very much. As much as Trimpey(author/founder of rational recovery) attacks AA/NA, they share one key idea. The fact that the urge to drink/use is very clever and cunning power and it's not just going to go away. We all have to keep that in mind. Thanx again for the support.:ghug2

I think any formal program will stress the devastating effects of long term alcohol abuse.
The urge to drink becomes a reaction out of habit...not sure if it is clever or cunning but it clearly is the reason many continue to drink. Change is scary...feeling emotions without booze is scary...even the thought of lifetime sobriety can be scary but one must go thru to get out.

Trimpey is absolutely anti-aa...no overtones about it! lol He does however make some valid points shared by many.

Again welcome...keep posting and share your journey!

I don't think AA is something for me...but the fact that they are so critical of AA and are trying to "sell their product" as an alternative makes me wonder. I do like a lot of what I read on their site though...

Thanks for the links doorknob. I will check these out a little later. I need things to keep my pea brain busy, especially in the afternoon.

:09:

How 'bout baffling?

I'm getting close to 90 days and I really do think that the gut reaction to drink (and smoke pot) is getting weaker. And being normal is starting to feel normal again. :)

Okay Dk I will go with baffling!!! LOL clever and cunning sounds too maniacal to me. My brain/disease isn't plotting against me...my brain is just doing what it has been trained to do.

I found after about 6 months it was odd to think about a drink...not nearly as natural as it once was.

BTW don't you know it isn't nice to stick out your tongue at people??? lol

I think this is an interesting link about Rational Recovery

Rational Recovery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No...I did not try it...I was already successfully using AA
for my recovery from alcoholism before I saw
a TV special on various recovery methods.

Several years later...I did work on another issue
by using SMART and it too was beneficial.

:)...There is no right or wrong way to find a
healthy sober future. I sure hope you do.

Good to see you here again...:yup:

We have some good discussions about SMART, LifeRing, and to a lesser extent RR over on the Secular Connections - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information (SC) section of the forum.

SMART broke off of RR due to some legit issues and Albert Ellis (the founder of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) went to SMART which, unlike RR, has meetings which discuss the tools used to help those with addictions.

Personally, I don't like RR because they charge to post at their bulletin board, and seem focused on hating AA as much as CBT (which they call AVRT).

I hope to see you over at SC!

One thing I noticed on the AVRT website is that it underscores that you cannot use a recovery group/AA with the AVRT program. Then it says that you will "systematically uproot" your personal beliefs and traditions in a 12 step program.

Then it says, "In a very short time, you will issue [your family] a personal guarantee that you will never drink again, along with an agreement that, as a user of alcohol and other drugs, you are unfit for family membership."

Then, for $29/month or $250/year, you can subscribe, and beat that addiction.

Hmmm......

Everybody is trying to make a buck. They have a 0% chance of ever getting money from me. In my opinion anyone who tries to profit from others misery is not the type of person I want anything to do with.

What I also noticed on the AVRT site is that they repeat certain themes over and over, either directly or passively, such as anti-AA/recovery group rhetoric. This isn't exaggeration at all- it's all over the site from top to bottom. Then it decides for you that you will have to believe certain things in AA, which it outlines. (?)- It assumes you will be brainwashed (essentially questioning your capacity for independent/critical thought).

This is just my opinion, but it seems like snake oil.

There's way better stuff out there for non-12 Step recovery than what Trimpey is offering...

and way better stuff as far as critical analysis of AA.

DK, I agree wholeheartedly on both points.

Could you suggest some material, sites, etc. in particular?

These are some alternate recovery programs:

Dually Diagnosed
Questions and Answers about DRA

LifeRing Secular Recovery
Home Page of LifeRing Secular Recovery

SMART
SMART Recovery®

SOS - Secular Organisations for Sobriety
index.html

Women for Sobriety
Welcome to Women For Sobriety, Inc.


Information and analysis about addiction treatment and harm reduction:

The Stanton Peele Addiction Website

Moderation Management, the one group that deals with moderate drinking; useful for the guidelines:
Moderation Management

When I first read the Small Book I was really put off by the author's hatred of AA. I am not an AA person but I gained so much from RR I was able to set aside the hatred of AA and take what I needed from RR. It worked so much better for me than AA in many ways.

It gave me an understanding of addiction that I hadn't got from AA. It seemed to fit better into what I believed about the nature of alcoholism and drug addiction.

I guess my point is, study anything you can about addiction. Use what works for you, what makes the most sense. As long as you stay sober, AND happy, what difference does it make what path you take?

Love,

Lenina

I read the "New Cure" and the "Small Book".

For recovery they explain one technique "AVRT" which is thought recognition and nothing more. The books point out the obvious, that it is important to recognize the thoughts that tell you it is ok to drink or use.

So I did. I was able to point out the thoughts in my head that told me to drink. Super!

Now what?

See, the "Rational" recovey books don't teach you what to do with those thoughts. To say that it is a limited recovery program is putting it mildly.

After that, 90% of the book is choc-full of Jack Trimpey's hatred of 12 step programs. Jack is a hateful, arrogant person. I've met him in real life and he is as much that way in person as he is in his writing.

Everyone is different, if one finds a program that keeps them sober long term go for it.

The one thing I do not understand is how does attacking other programs help with ones sobriety?

As others have already said, take the good that works for you and leave what is of no help behind.

I have read a little bit on Rational recovery, but found the bashing to be un-needed and figured why bother with it, I am sober & happy already.

Couldn't have said it better... NOW WHAT!!!

Jack is arrogant and hateful??? Gee, wonder why.... I have gotten pretty good at recognizing that voice... right!!... Super, NOW WHAT!!! What about serenity, happiness, gratitude, finding meaning and purpose in life?

If all I was doing was recognizing the voice, I'd be a wreck... because that voice is still speaking... why??, I can hear it?, but how do I make it stop?!!

AA, for me, quiets that voice, now that's what I want!!

Mark

I know this is quite an old thread but I've been reading up on AVRT today and was quite taken with it. Like most say though, I can't understand the pathological hatred of AA and the subscription for accessing the forum put me right off.
I'm really disappointed.
I know I need to find an alternative to AA as I've spent years trying to 'get it' and I just can't.
I looked at SMART but what a people's experiences with this?
(Alera, you seem really knowledgable on this - Please can you point me in the right direction) x

none
 

Good day all...I have tried AA several times in the past without long term success..I won't go into the many reasons why. But I did find RR to be very successful for me despite the fact that it was written by a curmudgeon!!:e058:
I seem to work best with this plan. But then, I also was not a severe alcoholic. I do think that he attacks AA too much but maybe he has been attacked..I don't know.

Lula, in the alcoholism forum there is a sticky with a ton of other recovery methods, this isn't an AA forum.. AA is just one of many things people work in their recovery. I don't, a lot of people here don't. There are many many many other ways.

Here's the sticky post..

There is healing and hope for those willing to work for recovery...


Alcoholics Anonymous
Alcoholics Anonymous

Dually Diagnosed
Questions and Answers about DRA

LifeRing Secular Recovery
Home Page of LifeRing Secular Recovery

SMART
SMART Recovery®

SOS - Secular Organisations for Sobriety
index.html

Women for Sobriety
Welcome to Women For Sobriety, Inc.


Information and analysis about addiction treatment and harm reduction:

The Stanton Peele Addiction Website

A useful AA reference:
Online AA resources (not official AA):
Online AA Recovery Resources

Moderation Management, the one group that deals with moderate drinking; useful for the guidelines:
Moderation Management

Some variations on 12 Step:

Agnostics AA:
Agnostic A.A. Meetings in New York City

Alcoholics Victorious (Christian 12 step):
The 12 Steps and Bible References

Pagan approach to 12 steps:
Anodea Judith: Pagan 12-Step(Part 1 of 4)

Another Christian recovery site:
Celebrate Recovery

Rabbi Twerski's interpretation of the 12 Steps from a Jewish perspective:
JACS Library - Literature

And....
Phone Contact...

The National Drug and Alcohol Treatment Referral Routing Service available at 1-800-662-HELP. This service can provide you with information about treatment programs in your local community and allow you to speak with someone about alcohol problems

Hopeline-dot-com has free 1-800 line that will connect any caller in the US who needs help to a certified crisis center nearest the caller's location. Services are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The number is:

1- 800-784-2433

Thanks to SR member Gretter Dee.....
here is info on Alcohol
and Drugs for those in the UK

FRANK - Home page

oops, please see the sticky for active links, I forgot those don't 'translate' in copy/pasting :)

heres that link for recovery programmes Smacked mentioned :)

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...resources.html

D

Me too! But I kind of backed into it. I quit about a week ago. Just quit. THEN I started looking for support or a plan or something. I just found this AVRT thing yesterday. It was nice to see a plan/system, whatever it is, that backed me up on what seemed, alone, like a bass-ackwards way to quit. And I kept telling myself what I was doing wrong: not seeking support, keeping beer in the house, still going out with friends - just not drinking myself. The idea that these things were "wrong" came form GA, but I can't ignore the fact that it has WORKED! For me.

Now, here's something interesting. One of the things on that AVRT site was to also make a commitment to never seeking group support. Never getting sucked into a group or addict or disease mentality. As much as the site said that "rang true," the very next site I went to was this one! To see how other folks were doing and how other folks were doing it. Because for me, it may be remote internet support in the comfort of my home, but it's still a lifeline of sorts. So I guess I'm an example of "take what you need and leave the rest."