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Originally Posted by barb dwyer
(Post 1689491)
first let's don't confuse the ability to memorize tons of information as intelligence. it's simply a capacity to remember a whole lot of stuff. it doesn't make on necessarily 'smart'. or 'intelligent'. The most irrelevant comment on this thread.
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
(Post 1689491)
But feeling like no one is going to understand you intellectually or spiritually is kinda underrating folks as well. Comment made as a result of the greatest misinterpretation on this thread.
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
(Post 1689491)
YOu haven't even gotten to the plain MY particular mountain is on, buddy. You've just read about it. Starting to feel mighty inferior about now.........
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
(Post 1689491)
I saw briefly (sorry folks I have a life- I didn't read through that whole dissertation thread) I mean I only work a ten hour shift. There are other worlds than these. By that rationale, those that take the time to read posts longer than five sentences have no life?
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
(Post 1689491)
I think This is a whole apples and oranges thing going on and that old game kids play where they 'stack hands'. You know that playground game? Stacking hands? Hmm.....
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
(Post 1689491)
Anyhow - To make the grey box, Serenity - funny the 'intellectuals' couldn't be bothered to tell ya - I don't recall ever seeing "intellectuals" used in such a derogatory manner before.... Word of the day: Asinine \ˈa-sə-ˌnīn\ Function: adjective Etymology: Latin asininus, from asinus ass Date: 15th century 1 : extremely or utterly foolish 2 : of, relating to, or resembling an ass |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That was inappropriate, I'm sorry. |
Originally Posted by SpaceDementia
(Post 1690554)
...That was inappropriate... |
Originally Posted by barb dwyer ...But feeling like no one is going to understand you intellectually or spiritually is kinda underrating folks as well... |
Please let us know how the meeting goes, SD. |
Just doing what needed doing to get your attention SD. No offense taken. And not that I *do* have your attention - have you made the call? And, are you posting over in the Substance abuse boards, and did you read the stickies there? I'm checking in with you there, because there's a wealth of information there, like our friend becky who knows first hand about coming off methadone and what to expect and where to turn, what to eat and drink and who to call. One other teeny TINY little thing is ... I was doing drugs long before you were born. I know that gives me the old prospector image in your head, but it should also give me a teeny tad of respect because I am still alive and typing this. So I’m not saying this to play the ‘hand game’ with you – I’m saying this to try and let you know – I might, just MIGHT – know what I’m talking about – and MIGHT – be worth listening to for a second. Much of the panic and the freaking out and the inability to control said panic and freaking out is the simple fact that your whole body is in override mode and you are being made to think it's your mind. It is not your mind. Your mind ... is in fact ... not in control at all. And it hasn’t been for some time now. What you are feeling is not fear at all. What you are feeling is muscle tissue excreting poisons - toxins in the form of drugs What you think of as ‘high’ is not high … it’s DYING. It’s the EUPHORIA of pre-death. You’re nuts. That’s what my post was intended to tell you. I know this because I lived next door to a woman who lived it. She paced the floor, In my house, out of my house. She’s up. She’s down. She’s crying. She’s talking. She’s asleep. She’s sweating. She’s crazy. She’s Holy. She’s euphoric. She’s in terror. But not once. Was. She. Smart. Not. Once. Was Her Mind. In. Charge. And it was not her fault. It was the drugs. Coming out of the tissues in her body. You don’t so much need a group like NA because you’re not smart, you’re smart to seek a group like NA because anything resaemling a choice above one or two ply … is going to be a challenge decision. Now, those releases of poisons are going to come and go. So say, right before Family Guy comes on, you’re normal … second commercial … you’re having to peel yourself off the ceiling. NA is chock full of people who’ve been there, done that – and know who to call when it’s above and beyond what is handle-able, and they know what to eat, what to drink, when it’s ok to walk and when to wait for the lights to change. Find NA, Hon. It’s ok. Worry about all this existential crap .. later. It’ll still be here. You do not need to white knuckle this by yourself, and that’s what it looks to me as if you’re trying to do. There’s just no need for that. That’s unnecessary suffering. They know what they're doing, they've done it - and they're committed to helping YOU do it, too. |
Originally Posted by SpaceDementia
(Post 1685418)
I believe in something, though it's difficult for me to articulate exactly what that something is. I suppose I'd call it a higher energy or more specifically a collective consciousness that can be tapped into. That's the number one question(s) that bothers, what is this? Why are we conscious? I've been searching and searching and have some ideas. Now, without me sitting in front of you and explaining this in detail this might not make much sense but...... I believe that we can travel across different planes of existence. With only our minds, if trained properly, we can travel to any point in time, and any reality that we so choose. I believe time can be manipulated. I believe that there are various frequencies on our plain of existence that we can tune in and out of. A sentient energy maybe. It has to do with quantum mechanics to an extent. I know, to some people, this probably sounds insane but like I said, it's difficult for me to articulate. There's this DVD called "What The Bleep Do We Know?" It's a documentary of sorts with the people on the top of the quantum mechanic food chain (you know, professor that from MIT, professor this from Berkley). Logic and Newton's laws break down at a quantum level. This DVD talks about it. Don't watch it at night though because it will keep you up. It will send your mind reeling. Some of the things shown and proven truly seem like "magic". In fact, since I'm gonna be up all night anyways, I may go pop it in my DVD player. This is the DVD I have, and if you have those questions (why are we here, what's this all mean) I STRONGLY urge you to buy this DVD. In fact, warrens, I'll buy it for you. Here's the link to it: Amazon.com: What the Bleep!? - Down the Rabbit Hole (QUANTUM Three-Disc Special Edition): Marlee Matlin,Elaine Hendrix,John Ross Bowie,Robert Bailey Jr.,Barry Newman,Larry Brandenburg,Daniela Serra (II),James Langston Drake,Michele Mariana,Armin Shim Ended up I settled on M-Theory to satisfy my cosmic curiosity and fulfil all my HP (well, kind of :D) needs, in which our universe and countless others were/are created by collisions between membranes in an 11 dimensional space and each and every universe created by these endless fluctuating membranes possesses it's own unique laws of physics... :eek: Do a search for M-Theory on the net, it's interesting stuff if you like that kind of thing... :) |
Hey y'all. Before you pile on too much, I'd like to remind you that SD, IS doing th "work" right now, in his own way. He may not be at the stage that others are, but he is "doing" it. He and I have been having quite a personal discussion off this board. He's a hell of a "manchild." I admire the *hit out of him. But I suggest that some are hitting his "hot button." I don't know the corollary in AA terms, but I'm all too familiar with it in my work and personal life. If I "push" you, even in the slightest, even in jest, your body stiffens to resist. Otherwise you'd fall over. If I push you again, just a bit harder, you resist with equal and opposite force. Again and your reaction is to use greater force than you received. Children do that all the time. Fights break out over what was a friendly nudge. I'm not suggesting that SD is a child. I do suggest however, that in the midst of withdrawal, as well as our disease, our higher brains are toast. Read Abraham Maslow's landmark "Hieracrchy of Human Needs." Wikipedia it. A simple pyramid. Aw hell, here is is: Image:Maslow's hierarchy of needs.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I suggest that in early recovery, some of us are near the bottom. PLEASE take a look at it. It correlates quite nicely with the BB, I think. As we recover, we slowly are able to work our way up the pyramid, where higher brain functions reside. A simplification to be sure. Now, I don't know a bloody thing about opiate withdrawal, but it sounds more than miserable. Sounds way more "physical" than what I'm presently going through. When you are in that much pain, the higher brain is there, but it is compromised. Like trying to enjoy an opera with a kidney stone. The man is here, the man is in fear, and he should be dear. At the bottom of the pyramid are physiological needs. There ain't much we can do about his needs there. One step up is "Safety." One step up from that is "Love and Belonging." We can surely help SD there. Moving up that pyramid is my goal for me. I'm making great progress. Only because I have family and a love who are enveloping me with support. He has none of that. So, don't be surprised if your nudges and shoves are met with resistance. That trust, quite simply, hasn't been earned yet. When I get a new dog, the first thing I do is roll them on their back. I proceed to stroke his/her belly and underside for at least half an hour. I repeat that continually for days. Does two things. First it shows dominance. Beta wolves always lay on their back to an alpha. Second, and most importantly, the stroking shows that I mean no harm. It is safe here. Repeat as needed until trust is earned. It is then when I can touch any part of their body. Heal wounds, Pull thorns between the toes, whatever. Painful stuff. We fall into traps when we do not "listen." SD can make it hard, I know. Others (myself included) do the same. The pain can bring out the child. So be it. At least children express. A lot of us are here because we don't or can't. But if we read between the the lines, a call for help is clearly discernible. It is not the people who are here that we need to worry about, but the people who aren't. "Primum non nocere." First do no harm. The Hippocratic oath. When I was a principal, it was a prominent sign in the teacher's lounge. I apologize for being "intellectual." Just my journey up the pyramid. warrens |
...I don't know a bloody thing about opiate withdrawal... |
Originally Posted by GreenTea
(Post 1691063)
I heard that part. Absolutely no offense taken or intended. Peace and SERENITY warrens |
:skilletNow, now, come on folks! My care taking issues are beginning to pick up big time! Can we all just quit kicking sand at each other and play nice? In my opinion, and this is simply my opinion, I feel as though we have gotten off the subject of why we are here. Is it to argue/disagree/prove who's right and who wrong or are we here to discuss Recovery? I'm gonna speak my mind just like I would if we were physically in a meeting. Sd - My friend, you know we have shared some conversations through PM's, which by the way I have thoroughly enjoyed and have seen a less defensive side of you in, but I think you need to take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. You have had several people who have given you quite a bit of their time in sharing what has helped them in their struggles with this disease. Ok, you may have a heck of alot more knowledge in other areas that sound greek to some of us, but the people who are giving you their time and feedback have a much more extensive track record in dealing with their successful Recovery. SD, I know you can't do this here, but there are a good deal of Sponsors out there who tell their Sponsores that the first 30, 60 sometimes 90 days, that in meetings they need to keep quiet and just listen. This isn't said to make anyone feel less than or ignorant, it's so they can listen, truly listen and hear what is being said. In some ways, I agree with this. Someone can't be truly listening and absorbing what is being said if they are on the defensive and thinking of what to say as soon as the individual speaking quits talking. Think about it. From our conversations, here in the thread and also in PM's, I know that your feelings aren't hurt easily, or at least you say they aren't. I hope you have come to know enough about me to realize that I care about you and everyone else here on SR. I hope my opinion being spoken will not in any way keep you from coming back here. I have seen a difference is you. I've told you that more than once. This is a nasty a** disease that wants to suck you right back into it's control. Keep sharing with us how you are doing. If we didn't care about you, your thread would have been dead a long time ago. We just don't want YOU to be! Much love to all, Judy:ghug |
so did you go to an NA meeting? How did it go? |
SD - I'm asking you - PLEASE contact someone whether it be online here, or in your area you're doing a lot of unecessary suffering - you can keep intellectualizing - but there's a wealth of information you are simply NOT GETTING right now.. and that is bottom line foolish. just ... foolish, son. there is no such thing as 'purificiation by fire'. that only exists in fiction. get yourself help... real help ... from someone who KNOWS what they're TALKING about - that's why I interrupted this existential bs in the first place. please. healthcare providers read, too, hon. c'mon. the whole concept of SR is recovery. sober ... RECOVERY. not sober... CONCEPTUALIZATION. not Sober ... IMPERSONATION. c'mon. Give it a chance. Warrens - how utterly irresponsible. |
Ms. Dwyer It is precisely professional help and guidance that I have implored SD to seek. I will NEVER comment on someone's approach to treatment and I make that clear. I leave that to the "experts." Such as yourself, apparently. You cringe, it seems, at what you term as "intellectual." I think perhaps it is more a case of not wishing to read that which takes critical thought. That's OK, because when it comes to this disease, K.I.S.S. is a pretty good approach. In your own way, you are teaching me plenty and I thank you. You remind me of some folks at AA. There are always a few. Your response prompted me to peruse your profile. Says a lot, methinks. About barb dwyer A Little About You there's nothing little about me Location butte mt Sobriety Date 8/29/06 Interests few any more Occupation all about MEEEEE ! Currently Reading: my computer screen I Like To Listen To: streams, waterfalls, etc. Peace and SERENITY Ms. Dwyer. In the middle of Butte there is one of the world's deepest open pit mines. A horrible reminder of days' past. I've been there. At the bottom of that mine. At the bottom of that mine all one can see in any direction is the spoils of despair. We can be sober but still dwell in the bowels of the mine of desperation. I choose not to. I also choose not to engage in that which is toxic. You are an esteemed member of this community and it is well deserved. And one thing we DO agree upon, believe it or not, is that treatment is best left in the hands of those who are EXPERT at it. Expert at guiding folks to wholeness, not anger. I think we agree on that. Respectfully, warrens |
sometimes mirrors do not reflect what we want to see do they mr. warrens. |
(keeping out of the scuffle) SpaceDementia, just wanted to offer you belated support. I finally read the entire thread, I can relate to a lot of the stuff you're saying. Hope you're doing better. Take care Matt :) |
Ms Dwyer sometimes mirrors do not reflect what we want to see do they mr. warrens. On that I most heartily agree! Peace and serenity warrens |
I was planning to type something different here but after reading Barb's last three posts I speechless. Well, almost speechless. I assume this is an attempt to antagonize either myself and/or warrens. Warren is my friend. I have spoken privately with warren to a greater extent than with anyone else and his comments have been beneficial. In a general way we are quite similar. I know he doesn't know much about opiate withdrawal, in fact that was the very first message that I received from him. Take having influenza and mixing that with a deep depression and you have, in a nutshell, opiate withdrawal. With that said..... Let me start by stating that there is one popular concept which everyone seems to except that I find to be frightening and absolutely insane: majority rules. This includes the fact that just because you have an MD or Phd after your name you know what is best for a human being. Regardless of what similarities we as humans may share, in addiction or otherwise, the fact remains that each one of us is a unique individual. Having an Md and Phd and LSW doesn't necessarily make you a sage. As barb stated somewhere above first let's don't confuse the ability to memorize tons of information as intelligence......it's simply a capacity to remember a whole lot of stuff...... it doesn't make one necessarily 'smart'. or 'intelligent'. To get back on treatment discussion, I've finalized my course of action. I disposed of the remaining buprenophine tablets that I had, yesterday. I also made an appointment with a physician that prescribes bupreorphine for this coming Thursday. This will give me five days to evaluate the withdrawal from burpenorphine and compare it to that of methadone. I will attempt to see the beauty in whatever pain I feel. I will continue to post on here my progress should I continue to find it useful. I'm joining a health club near by so that I can swim. I've been taking walks but those aren't getting my heart pumping enough. I guess that's it for now. SD And warren, thank you for your vote of confidence/understanding. |
Hey SD You know that I care. And you read carefully enough to know my purpose for being here has nothing at all to do with ego. You know that I have discouraged you from starting or entering "foodfights" here. And here I am getting plastered. Oooh, wrong choice of words. That's OK, but I'm determined to keep it positive. That said, you know we've disagreed on some stuff. And again, I must disagree on your rejection of NA or AA. You said you were going, brutha. And you know that I do have a high regard for SOME in the therapeutic community. I wish you'd consider it. I also wish, as we have discussed that you would consider reconsidering your attitude regarding "powerlessness." As I've said, I've been there and done that and my admitting powerlessness is central to my recovery. We do not become a less powerful man when we admit our powerlessness over our demon. Quite the contrary, I think admitting it can be the most powerful thing a person can do. Seriously. But then I'm just an old "know it all," who gets his jollies being "superior" in cyberspace (shakes his oh so grateful head). No one can lead you to seek help and no one can deter you from seeking it. It has to come from within. As I've said, coming here was a giant step. From what I've read, opiate withdrawal is a monster. A monster I've never faced. I've told you that I envied your living in a city where so many treatment options exist. And I've begged you to at least TRY them. I do do again. In any case, I and many others will still be here regardless of what you choose or don't. With support, and not medical/therapeutic advice that is not ours to give. You've read carefully enough to know that. Take heed of what Ms. Dwyer has to say, my friend. She is no stranger to this. We can learn something from everyone. But read carefully and separate what is ego and agenda from what is truly caring. And stay the bleep away from foodfights. warrens |
"There is a principle, which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ~Herbert Spencer My addiction literally beat me into being open-minded, and I reached out in 12 step programs. I found that once I quit fighting life with both fists up, and extended my hands, palms turned upwards, my life got better :) |
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