Does change happen overnight?
 

I know this post is about the addict but I am also trying to keep my head straight and not get fooled again. I am far from recovery so I am just too easy for this cunning disease.

My AH suddenly is talking and acting very differently. He is still going to meetings (1 -2 a day), bought the NA book and reads it constantly and rereads the chapters. He got a sponsor. He is giving up golf for now, and says "I am in addict in every part of my life."

He says he was going to meeting but he was just going. He listened but as an outsider..not really belonging. In some ways he tried not to judge others but felt his "situation was different." For example, he didn't have to steal because he made enough to support his habit but then acknowledged he did steal from our family. Now, he says I am the same as everybody there. An addict is an addict.

He says his mind is still not clear and still thinks like an addict and his sponsor told told him it will take time. He says "just for today" really means something now...as facing the addiction as a whole is too overwhelming.

I see sincere humility and he has warned me it will take a long time to trust him. He has a lot to relearn but he is just sick and tired of being sick and tired.

He is encouraging me to get to more ala-non meetings. He wants me strong and independent again. But he also wants me to attend a few a NA meetings so I understand more...not something I think is a good idea. Not sure about that!

I don't want to live on false hope and that is easy for me to do. I know some are going to say his recovery doesn't matter, only mine does. And I agree to some degree. But I always told myself, I would support recovery just not addiction.

So does something just click with an addict?? He has manipulated me in the past but I am really seeing something different and not just because I want to. He also said the no contact freaked him out, not enough to change, just scared enough to see what being an addict is still costing him.

P.S. He insisted on taking a drug test and showing me he was clean. I was reluctant to go a long with this..but he asked me to allow him this accomplishment because he is has proved what a scum bag he is too many times. I agreed and he passed. The test still doesn't impress me though. Been there, done that.

My exabf tended to hype up on occassion, then poof it was gone, they are impulsive by nature.

Just keep focusing on you, don't jump back in feet first, watch from afar. You support his recovery by getting yourself healthy, he can get all the support he needs from his recovery group.

I can make my mind up to exercise today. I can convince myself that I am sincere in wanting to make that effort. I can tell everyone around me that I am determined that I am going to exercise.....not just today.....but every single day. But until I do it and prove that I can keep it up for a period of time.....it's just talk.

Can it "click" with an addict that fast? Yup. Can it click back just as fast? Yup.

I don't know if that makes any sense to you but it was a "non-drug related" example that I think a lot of people can relate to. Time always reveals more. Time will tell whether this is a temporary condition or a deep seated personal conviction. Either way, I hope you continue your journey of recovery and do what is healthy and best for you. If it turns out that you can share that with him, great. If it turns out that you can't, you'll be ok.

Time takes time.

gentle hugs
ke

This is such a very critical time for you. My impulse is to grab you and run.

The risk is that just as his addiction controlled you, his recovery could control you, too. You could find yourself just as hooked to his behaviors and moods and attitudes toward you-- as he tests the waters of recovery-- as you were hooked when he was using.

You do not have to be anything for him. He wants you to go to meetings--your own and some of his. He wants you to be stronger and more independent. He wants you to allow him to be untrustworthy. He wants you to drug test him even if you'd rather not.

It is possible for some addicts to be as controlling and grandiose in recovery as they were in active addiction. And of course, he is not yet in recovery, he's just visiting the idea right now. But just be cautious that addicts who want control can achieve it through an appearance of false humility and AA-speak (using the language of recovery to cloak their underlying self-centeredness and self-will). It is not uncommon for addicts in recovery to be as controlling and dominating of those around them through the use of recovery-speak as they were controlling and dominating through active addiction.

You have been through so much, with your AH and your son, and it seems to me the last thing you need now is to be back on a rollercoaster hooked to your AH's dip into NA. There is a risk that he will continue to be the center of the universe, in his mind and in yours.

You do not have to be anything for him. And the moment you hear coming from his mouth, "You need to be more....." or "I wish you would......" you are at risk of taking the bait and being hooked.

No matter what he is doing today, based on your volatile history of pain and betrayal in the relationship, and the damage done to you by the addiction in your family, my hope for you is that you disengage from him for many months, and find your true self and your true strength again. Apart from anyone's expectations.

Well, everything that English Garden said...lol, and I will share this. My ex has been in the rooms on and off for a few years. Last Friday, he called my work and spouted a lot of AA speak,as well as saying that he is finally seeing that he turns to other people, especially in relationships, to fix him and make him 'normal', that he has to focus on himself, live one day at a time, and take a bath in AA. I, too, thought I heard something 'different' this time, probably because subconsciously I still wish for it. Anyway, 12 hours later, at 5 am. he showed up at my doorstep high, with 2 crack w*#res in his car. I do not mean to sound harsh toward him or those girls, but is what it is.......just keep your focus on your own recovery. Like you, I have been there, done that for far too long so I completely understand where you're coming from. (((HUGS)))

my ex has been actually "using" the resources of recovery to survive as an addict...

in the resources of recovery he finds places to live, guys who give him work, he gets to occasionally come up for air and take a break from frying his brain on drugs, he gets an occasional months retreat in some rehab facility (some even have horseback riding and yoga) AND he finds women who are willing to help support and guide him and listen all about his addiction/recovery. everyone who is IN recovery wants to see others find it.

the worse part that I discovered here at the final letting go...is that my ex uses recovery speak to manipulate me. he throws around spiritual ideals and principles to try to shoot torpedoes through my self esteem and bring me down. I have still yet to hear him say anything truly negative about his DOC (crack) but he will insult/critique/and "perfectionalize" my hard efforts at working my own program.

the pink cloud can act just as well for a "program shield". my ex uses recovery speak as a "BEARD" for the fact that he isn't truly acting out any of the principles...he just expects everyone else to display forgiveness and compassion for his past transgressions

every time he comes up for a few months of clean air instead of crack smoke he expects the applause and cheers and roses at his feet

and when he doesn't get it he twists it all around into something being wrong with ME

as in "more strong and independent" or "going to more meetings"

that my dear is called taking someone else's inventory. just live on your side of the street and watch out for those who start to impose upon your boundaries...you have a spotless future ahead. choose wisely

for you...on the outside...you get to decide for yourself if you want a life filled with the hard hard work of recovery or the despair and frustration of relapsing...or worse.

YOU get to make the decision for your future

First to answer this. YES is can happen. I have seen it happen with many, myself included. HOWEVER, it may not stick. Therefore it is still VERY IMPORTANT that you focus on your OWN RECOVERY and just step back and WATCH his ACTIONS. It is that 'aha' moment. The light bulb goes on. They/I, become/became all excited about this program that maybe could fix me. But there are still many 'down' days and that is when the sponsor, the meetings, and the phone numbers of others in the program became most important. For you too.

Get your own sponsor, get to meetings, get phone numbers.

And no he will not stay this way, even if the 'click' stays, lol He is going t o have many 'up and down' days as he learns to deal with emotions/feelings that he has buried for years, as he works the steps, especially the 4th, etc.

As to attending an NA meeting, that is your choice. I myself, of course, being both an RA and a recovering codie have and do attend both. As you continue to work YOUR PROGRAM and more awarenesses come to you, you may want to go and listen and 'hear' from different addict's mouths what they went through to get a better understanding and then again you may not. Just because you do not go to any NA meetings is does not mean you are not supportive of his recovery, just that you do not choose to attend a meeting.

It is okay to have a smidgeon of hope for now, lol but just a smidgeon. Just watch his ACTIONS, rather than listening to what comes out of his mouth.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

Meetings…

My husband was going, and I will not speculate what was in his head or the whys but I do know that meetings did make a good excuse to get out of the house and shoot up at times… but whatever …

One time he came home and talked about an older guy he met there, who sat him down said something like this is real simple, get honest, stay honest, in every area of your life…that night impacted him for whatever the reason and has stayed with him. Why do I say that because his actions changed…

As time passed I noticed that instead of that shuffle of one step forward a dozen back, it was a dozen steps forward one back. It took a long time for him, but you know he was in for decades so maybe it should have. A year to be just ok…Then it was realization after realization…did he relapse along the way, absolutely, did he go full on out, no …. what does that mean, I have no idea because it isn’t something I focus on, I look at his actions, none show him as being active in insanity.

Look you might not want to hear this but it is important. Stop focusing on him, become neutral, lose the using/not using head trip as to gauge or to assign things as one way and get that this is his fight, and his realizations aren’t about you. Stop hinging decisions on if he uses or not… meetings, therapy, sponsors none of that can be a gauge either. His actions will show the truth. Make decisions based on what you need in the moment, knowing you always have the right to change your mind, as your needs change, as the things around you change as time passes….nothing is set in stone, so stop looking for things to be crystal clear and make sense because they can’t especially if all the questions you ask or need answers to have nothing to do with you and are all based on him, him, him…what he is doing, isn’t doing, good signs, bad signs…oh bad signs, don’t assign anything, some of the things that look the worst are the best things to happen. Some of those too good to be true, really are

Also get off the fence, take a stance are you in or out of this relationship today, you got to pick a side, and no matter which one you have to do the work, that is the only thing that stops any madness, working on you, learning about you, who you are what you need….I don’t think many realize but the basis of all confusion is the fact that far too many have so lost themselves, and if you don’t know who you are anymore, how can you know what you want and need….

((LoveMeNot)) - I agree with the above, but especially ((Anvil and Laurie)) as we're also RA's.

Some of my biggest challenges, struggles, etc. have occurred in my past 5 years of recovery. Recovery takes time, both for addiction and codependency.

My family doesn't even really understand the word "recovery", I've never really talked about it much, but they know what the see...actions speak volumes.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

Thank you all for your honest answers! I sincerely appreciate them.

I am staying as detached as I can. I don't trust him at all still, obviously. I know this is going to sound so codependent and unhealthy (because I still am) - seeing him trying whether real, fake or momentarily has motivated me to work harder on myself.. I know its not suppose to happen that way, but if it gets me there and I get what I need to become healthier, I am still gain something. I know, I know but I am just being honest.

I don't feel so depressed or overwhelmed. Is it because I am getting a fix of my drug? I am not acting all lovey dovey with him or jumping into bed with him but I still like being with him. Also, I like that he is taking some responsibilities around the house too. I should not get stuck doing it all.

I have taken many precautions, got any money or jewelry out of the house. Not that he has ever stolen it, I just don't want to ever get "shocked" again by his duplicity.

Still have my son as an issue, so that just make me run for the hills anyway because there is a waiting list for the new program.

exactly?

How did he get back in the house and if so....why?

I don't know if he's back in your house or not. I just have to ask you one thing. You are getting your "fix" off of him...do you realize that this is a sign of addiction?

I am NOT judging anyone on this forum. I am simply speaking as both an RA and a recovering codie. If I have to get my "fix" of a person, I am addicted to them. I am just as sick as the A is. I am putting my life, my happiness in their hands. It's no different than an A turning toward their DOC.

If/when I ever decide to get in another relationship, I want to be with someone who COMPLEMENTS my life, not completes it. I spent about 25 years totally dependent on one (okay, 3) XABFs to determine my worth, my happiness. I dove into addiction to numb the pain.

Oh, and to answer your question? Yeah, a "fix" will throw you off kilter. He's being good, he's doing what I want him to do, yada yada yada. The hard part is knowing "it doesn't matter WHAT he does, I will be okay with me". Better yet, take a time out and put distance between you. When I did it? I felt like I had a limb amputated, but darned if things didn't become clearer.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

He is NOT back in the house! Yes, I would say I am addicted to my addict. I know that is sick. Many codependents are...that is not new information. I have been working on that with a therapist and alanon meetings (just got home from one tonight). My recovery is a process too. Sometimes I am strong and sometimes I am weak. Sometimes I have hope and sometimes I think the worse. And sometimes my emotions come from what is happening in my life at the moment. Sometimes I resent and almost hate him and other times I feel forgiving. In some ways I still want to believe him...like when I could - but my mind won't let me now. So for me that is progress.

I am extremely honest here because I can be. With my friends and family, I pretend to be stronger than I feel. I try to hide the roller coaster of emotions I am feeling.

I told him to hire someone or come cut the grass. I told him the pool needed cleaning and he needed to hire someone or do it. He may be an addict but that is still no excuse to ignore all your responsibilities. He agreed and did some things around here. Hell, he works everyday...he can live up to some of his responsibilities. And I made sure my stuff was protected. I am not taking any chances! I can not trust him.

I have heard horror stories about suboxone and how it can lead to other drugs. I don't know what he is doing for sure and this whole addiction thing is nasty stuff...as I learn and read more and more about it.

My goal is to work on me....not him. I periodically get tempted about him but I have not budged. And the next time he tells me he will call me in an hour to discuss something important and "falls asleep," I will block him again. (Sometimes I still let my mind run wild before I realize it and get it back to where it should be...on me and not him.) That is going to take time and practice. Sometimes I have to calm my anxieties and sometimes I don't let myself get anxious at all. Sometimes I am smarter enough to give it to God and sometimes I am no. Again, awareness, time and practice to refocus my energies.

I am not playing a game. People treat us how we let them. I don't care what his issues are, I want to be treated with respect. He doesn't treat his clients this way, so he can not treat me that way either.

You guys know I have mixed emotions but I have not let him know that. I am tired of allowing things because he is an addict. I am not his doormat or going to allow him to take advantage of me any more. Addict or not, does not give any one a free pass to mistreat us.

While working on me, I still hope and pray for the best but I will prepare for the worse. With a progressive "disease" like addiction, you just never know what can or might happen.

P.S. I never said "just" pills. I know full well how pills have turned a once honest, loving man into a lying, manipulative, selfish addict. The is nothing "just" about any addiction.

I post to keep my head straight and not get fooled again....I post how I feel at the moment...I post to get constructive feedback. I know I am codependent. It didn't happen over night and I can't change it over night.

P.S.S. I have one husband, he is an addict! He wasn't always and addiction is new to me. I get confused, overwhelmed and manipulated. I was very trusting and was an easy target. That can really be really hard to admit to myself and on here. You can't make me feel any dumber then I have been.

Im new here but I have been reading some of your posts tonight as I cannot sleep. In a recent post you were asking for prayers because you realized a need to become self sufficient from your husband. Find a way to support yourself because you can not rely on him. I would encourage this. I am also wondering, and please dont take this as anything other than a thought to ponder. Could your change of heart towards your husband in recent days be coming from your fear of stepping out and becoming independent and self sufficient in your own right? I see similiar traits with our husbands. Mine is also a professional and quite successful. He has been seperated from me for almost a year but he still had his check automatically deposited into our joint account and I would take out his portion for bills as always. In my case, I have my own business. A store in our downtown area that he helped me establish several years ago. Since I have been pregnant and had a baby i was forced to hire a full time manager, but i still stay involved on a day to day basis and it gives me a sense of confidence and security in my own right. I wish that feeling for you also.

Lovemenot. You are not dumb. You are a caring, compassionate, loving, intelligent woman who wants her loved one to be well and yourself to be well.

As they say in AA it's progress not perfection. Everyone's tag is different. This will be one of the most difficult things you do in your life and yet the most rewarding in a weird way.

I have gone 3 steps forward with RXAB and 2 stps back...thanksfully today I'm 10 steps forward and I will work hard to stay here.

I so get it..I'm always here to reach out and talk.

BIG HUG

Thank you so much Finding Joy! (((hugs back)))

Alllforcnm - hmmmm - interesting observation. I have been noticing a strength/weak seesaw effect. I used to be very strong and independent, maybe I am afraid to be that again on some level. Thank you. I will discuss this with my therapist.

Also, I helped build his business. He had the ideas, I had the know how. We were a great team. I could easily become his competitor and I know there are some competitors who would hire me. I just don't think I want to stay "connected" to him if we divorce. I could play dirty if I wanted, I just chose not too. He is going to have to buy me out and/or pay spousal support if I file for divorce. However, I was told not to make any drastic decisions for the first 6 months until I was thinking more clearly, my emotions were more stable and I have some progress in my recovery. As you can see by my posts, that was sound advice. :)

Warning: this post is subject to change. ;)

You're not dumb, not by any means. I feel the caution in your words, this is a very difficult situtation to muddle through.

You are doing amazing work and your honesty is awesome.

I respect your journey and your strength.

love to you Katie

LoveMeNot
You are not dumb. You are simply a person trying to figure out how to cope....just like the rest of us.

Sometimes I get a little frustrated with folks on here who push a little hard. But I've been on here long enough to know them.....and I do believe they have good intentions. They are here because they care. Sometimes it takes a combination of gentle support, cheerleading-like encouragement, and cold, hard truths to get through whatever we need to get through and come out alive.

Ultimately, we all have the right (and responsibility) to do what we feel is right for ourselves. We get to live with the consequences of our own decisions. And that is how it should be.

I stayed in a lousy marriage with a psychologically abusive man for five years. It was fives years too long. I didn't stay in that marriage because I was stupid. I stayed in it because of a belief system that I grew up with. Marriage was forever. I'd made my bed and now I had to lay in it....literally. And it took all that time and a collection of events to get me beyond that lifelong, deeply ingrained thinking.

We all do what we have to do. We all deal with what we have to deal with. And it is the time and events that eventually shape our decision to stay with the addict or not. No one on here can make that happen any faster than it's going to.

I laugh at myself all the time. I've been coping with my son's progressive alcoholism/addiction for 15 years. I'm a particularly slow learner.

gentle hugs
ke

there have been times when I resented anyone who was on my path who I felt made me feel shamed. shame does not help in my book. I felt shamed when someone used to tell me that "it wasn't love it was a fantasy" or that I was "in denial" or even that I was a "codependent"...especially that I was "addicted to the addict", "in the way", "a distraction"...etc etc etc!!!!

often times our sense of being insulted comes from an underlying fear about our own character. such as being "dumb". and guess what? when our character, our being, our heart and soul, has been living in the house of smoke and mirrors otherwise known as addict/active addiction/codependency...we can lose our bearing and be a little lost...and we end up feeling like victims/stupid/self pity/doormats/why me/why me again/anger etc etc etc!! our character/self/ego/spirit has been living in a tornado and we are spun out...our direction goes this way and that and we can ping pong in our emotions.

after many moons I came to realize that though I did not like what felt like shameful accusations whatsoever...they actually were eventually helpful
when I was finally ready to let go, when I had hit my bottom, I looked back and found that it was helpful to realize that parts of my love story were a fantasy and that active addiction was using my hope as a form of denial in order to survive.

take away the shame, take away the fear of being dumb (because none of us are, we are all doing the best we can...) and what you have left are people in your circle of community (a recovery community that you have lovingly discovered for your SELF/SPIRIT) that will hold you accountable to your own life.

some will be soft and gentle, some will be sharp and sturdy, some will point to your red flags, others will sound out like a fog horn for rocks in the water. after you are in recovery longer and longer, the sharp foghorns will become your friends, and you will come to depend on them to help guide you...even if there is recovery happening for both you and your AH.

none of us are dumb, but we can be so very tossed about on the sea of addiction. we are all here as crew. some are in the galley making hot tea, some are helping navigate and others remind us to swab the deck...

stay steady on your course

Thank you all again.

Please don't misunderstand. There are many caring, sharp, strong, and honest people here. I welcome their input and appreciate their time and efforts to help keep me on my path of recovery. I need to be called out and I can take it....99% of the time.

I was in denial and confused for far too long. I can't imagine how frustrating it is for someone healthy to keep reading one sad, unhealthy post after another. I am not even close to being healthy and sometimes I feel frustrated. (so I just don't post). Often times, I don't post....because of the "who am I am to give input" feeling. It feels too hypocritical.

Yesterday, we (yes, me and my AH) drove 2 hours one way to a family meeting at my son's program. I tried to not be anxious, I prayed and kept repeating many AA slogans in my mind. It was a very painful meeting, but I refused to back down from my position. My son had a nasty look and a nasty attitude and I was not gentle. I was honest and straight forward with him. I will give my husband credit too. Both the program director and I were impressed with how he handled it. He told my son he was done making excuses for his own actions as well as his, etc. He told my son "I am addict because of poor choices I have made, I have a long road to change, it won't be easy but I am determined. I have hurt many people and I have so much to make up for. You want to go down that road, it's your life....I can not save you from yourself, your mother has tried way too hard, and until I see an honest effort on your part, I will no longer help you and I will support your mother's decision to let go and allow you to choose our own path and if its prison....then so be it." After the meeting, my son got up and asked "did I miss dinner?" What?? Not one tear, no emotion....nothing. We went back to the car and my husband stopped and hugged me and said "you can't save him any more than you could save me....just take care of you." Then I noticed he had put his NA key chain on his key ring (wow). And for that moment, I believed he meant what he said. I also remembered Kindeyes post and many others. I too have become determined to quit smoking but fail over and over again. I was left with many mixed emotions.

Then I went to an Alanon meeting and it was about "expectations." I cried the whole way home. I did expect to be married to the end, I did expect to trust, love and honor my husband and I did expect to be treated the same way. Was that so wrong? Was that so unhealthly?

I left with the realization the only people I can and should trust is God and myself and that was a different perspective of how I have lived my life and I was left with a very empty feeling. Then I came home to an empty house and looked around and thought every one of my expectations and all my dreams are gone.

I cried and I am prayed. With God's help, I will make it over the bridge (thank you KE for that image, I keep it in my mind constantly)....it's going to be painful, I am going to stumble, I may even fight it on some level....but it is where I want to be...so it is where I will end up.

So just for today, I am going to count my blessings and I still have many. Just for today, I am going to keep kicking out the negative thoughts that enter my mind and love myself....the best I can right now.


Again, Thank you all for being YOU and supporting me. I am not crazy, I just have no balance yet.

You know...

It's not about change over a period of days. It's about growth, self discovery, and getting honest with yourself over a period of years. I don't know your AH, so I can't tell if he's sincere or not regarding his recovery. Frankly, that doesn't concern me. My concern is how you are going to manage your recovery. Put you first and stay the heck out of his way.

I'm pulling for you.

ZoSo

Thank you Zoso77

In some ways (very few, lol) I can see the positives to having this life changing "experience." I could have been continuing on with my life and never realizing I had stop growing. I would never have realized how many changes I needed to make, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. It has been a real awakening for me and I am not going to the miss opportunity to make many changes.

I want to be on the other side of the bridge that Kindeyes described. I have no idea what my life holds for me but I KNOW I have a lot of growth ahead of me and I welcome it. Life is too short to stay stagnant.

P.S. My 18 year old daughter is really reaping the benefits of some of what I am learning. I am letting go and allowing her to make her own choices now that she is an adult. It's her life, she has to live it and learn. (and that's not always easy to do for us Mom's. I see a tattoo coming soon and I will bite me tongue ;) )

the marines have an ad that says "Pain is weakness leaving the body" I like to rephrase it and say "pain is weakness leaving the spirit".

This is one that hit home for me ~

You can have the pain of discipline or the pain of regret! Choose your path wisely.