update: afraid but blessed
 

it always feels so good when i come back to s/r.
sometimes i get pretty emotional reliving a memory, like even when i read "friends and family of substance abusers" it's like a trigger to me.
i can get sent straight back to the awful-ness of the old days, just one and a half years ago. it still shakes me.

i have been seeing a kind, hippie kind of guy for five months. i could tell three dozen little stories -- from him getting a soapy towel and dabbing a grease drip off my skirt at an outdoor concert, to him getting up early (i rise at 5:00 a.m.) to warm up my car and have a morning chat before work -- about the gentle, loving things he does.

he plays guitar quite well. i am not a great singer, but i love to sing. couple weeks ago, i had my first little dinner party in about three years at my new place. after dinner, i asked him to get out his guitar and i sat in the chair next to him, he said, "ready?" and i sang the song we had thus far worked up: "angel from montgomery". my sister, sitting across from us on the floor, wiped tears away afterwards. i went to her, said, "julie, what's wrong?" and she said, "i didn't know you could sing like that. it's so cool, it's so beautiful."

i think what she was really reacting to, was the intimacy, the sort of give-and-take, the shared passion and bond. and you know what? it WAS beautiful. i love sitting next to him, looking right at one another, and singing like that.

i am still afraid. i trust him to a pretty high degree. but.....
well, i get the "but what if's" quite a lot, like all the time. what if he's really a fraud? yeah, i know he likes having me around, he is happy to have a girlfriend, and we've had some pretty great (my perspective anyway) connections. but i fret about if his feelings are real. that's what i'm hung up on right now. how do you say "you have only said the three words two or three times - was it a fleeting feeling?" or, "i don't think i've seen the sparkle in your eyes i think a man in love is supposed to have" or just, "is it Real?" i know there's nothing i can do about all that, and -- once again -- time will tell. but it's where i live a pretty good amount these days.

still scared.
so blessed.

thanks for letting me share.

Coffeedrinker,
I'm not wise in these areas. My 2nd husband was a narcissist, and I'm very gun shy myself, but I heard you say it's been five months. I was just going to say it's okay to give it more time, but then I realized that you're falling in love with him, right? Or have you already fallen in love?

Some things we don't know: have you met his family? (Oh wait, I loved my x's family, they had no idea what an awful person he was.) The same can be said for his friends.

How does he treat you when no one else is around? Have you seen him when he is really angry over something? How does he treat children? How does he treat animals? Does he have a general respect for the law? Does he scoff at anyone behind their backs? Does he accept responsibility for himself?

There's a million ?'s you can ask yourself. I didn't. I ignored red flags, and I paid for it the minute we moved out of stateand for the next 4 years before I ran away with a weeks worth of clothes and my 2 kitties.

I don't know how to answer your question, other than there are no guarantees in this world. All I can do is wish you the best of luck, and tell you to listen to your gut, it never lies, you just need to listen. I often wonder if I met someone if I'd ever be comfortable making a commitment again, legally, emotionally, financially, etc. Maybe just enjoy it for a while longer and see what happens? Wish I had answers, I'm probably a bad one to ask!! Hugs, FGB

Thats great coffeedrinker. Sounds like some happiness has come your way. Look at it this way~~~enjoy each day and dance (or sing)) and be thankful. Life can be good. Smiles, Bonnie

I have been married to Mr. Ann for 41 years, Coffeedrinker, and in those years he has probably "said" those 3 little words about 20 times. He's a good man, loving husband and good provider, but it used to bother me that he didn't "say" those words.

Then I gave it some thought. He says it every day...in the way he treats me, in the thoughtful things he does, in the way he speaks of me to others, in the way he cares about how I feel and what I want out of life...he says it a thousand times a day...just not in words.

My point is, everyone has a different way of expressing their feelings. Some talk openly about them, some show them in their actions, some keep emotions tucked close to their chest.

I don't know if guitarman loves you, sure sounds that way from where I sit. And I know that love can be fleeting, and doesn't always last forever, but it can still be real.

What I do know is that life is short, each day needs to be embraced and lived to its fullest. You sound happy with this man, you also have wounds to heal and fear from the past to work through.

My thoughts are to grasp the moment, enjoy what is, and let what may be unfold as it may. You aren't the person you used to be and you are stronger and wiser today. Let that wisdom guide you and I am guessing that however this unfolds, you will be just fine.

Hugs

Trust your instincts..lol and don't ignore the red flags!!! I personally have written a list of deal breakers, some of which FGB mentioned above. Enjoy the relationship and know that if anything comes up you will be more able to recognize it and deal with it accordingly. That which hasn't killed us makes us stronger.....right?!

Aw, you guys always say what I'm trying to say, only so much better!! I'm still learning!

I think these are very wise words.

Things didn't work out with either of the two guys I dated, but that's okay.

I got my feet in the water. :)

:ghug3

Enjoy it for what it is, learn the lessons along the way.
Red flags are NOT to be collected as party favors.

That's what I've learned so far. Guitarman sounds like a good guy. If he's not "the one" this relationship has certainly got some good things to teach you about life and love along the way.

warming your car up?5 am? pretty sweet....

Aw, SR Peeps!
 

Oh, I know, you guys!

It's just like what Callie said a couple of months ago: you want relationship insurance, and it just doesn't exist.

I know this isn't the forum for these questions, I just wish I knew what the litmus test is. If the eyes don't sparkle, then what does show? And he is gun shy too, we both acknowledge this. But I hold back because I was lied to by someone I trusted with my life. And he doesn't because he knows that (to quote him) "it's a high ante game". Sure is.

Ann, you answered beautifully.

A few days ago, I was sharing something that made me feel very vulnerable. Tears came. I said, "You know, a couple of months ago, I was like I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I was just waiting for you to stop being nice to me. That's what happens to me." He put his arms around me and said, "That will never happen."

I believe him.

Thanks, as always, gang. I'm so glad I posted, and you came with your great responses.:day6

Sounds like, despite any little insecurities you may be feeling, you are in a good place right now. Congrats to you and keep on keeping on. You'll know the answers sooner or later. Till then enjoy your life! You deserve it! Can't wait to be there someday...

This is when I think of the PTSD... and it's when we reach into our tool bag right away. It's like carrying over one relationship into the next. Don't think about what he is thinking - think about yourself.

Enjoy these moments one day at a time. The "what if's" are what make our minds go crazy. There is an infinity of "what ifs" ... hypotheticals. What your gut might be telling you is to stay in the present and keep doing things for you.

A good friend's response to me when I said... "I wonder - what must he think?"... and she said..."Foggetabout what he thinks!... What are you thinking?"

Stay in your box... pay attention to your sensations.

I can relate... because I grew used to pretty much doing the uncertainty of the future in the negative light .... but not knowing - or having uncertainty in a good way - because there is no drama in the present - can be frightening, too.

This is what real relationships are made of... loving yourself first.

xo

coffeedriker, I dont have any advice but happy to read that your enjoying life again :) congrats on your recovery!

It's just like what Callie said a couple of months ago: you want relationship insurance, and it just doesn't exist.



I was just thinking of that same statement and how it applies to this post as well. Enjoy your happiness Coffee. My xah could say ILY until the cows came home. In the end it was his ACTIONS that drove my feelings, not his words.

Ann - I like that you have a Mr. Ann :) very cool.

truly. one morning i got up and started the car. he scolded me, said "that's my job". i said i didn't want him to have to get up and he said, "the getting up with you, starting the car and seeing you off so early, makes it a shared endeavor".

there are so many traits like that one; i really am in a good place right now, aren't i? i borrow trouble. the thing i am working on most right now, is to stay here, and live in the present. i'm not sure i know how.

:thanks

((Coffeedrinker))

Congratulations on taking the risk to be happy again, to live this amazing beautiful life and as far as the "what if's"

I too wondered about those when "Mr. PinkAcres" came along? after all it's been 2 yrs tomorrow since I slept on that cold floor in the rent house when I left my ex ~ look where I am today,
but I wondered oh my what if, what about, this could happen and then I remembered the path I had already walked, what ME & MY God had already been thru, and although I really don't want to experience that kind of pain again ~ I MADE IT THRU IT and my friend so would you.

Worse case scenario - if things don't work out ~ you already have the strength, courage, wisdom and grace to take care of you and get out way before things get out of hand like they have in our previous relationships!!

YOU know how to take care of you!!

NO matter what you & your HP are going to be OK!!!

So take a deep breath, take your recovery tools with you & ENJOY this beautiful life - ONE DAY AT A TIME!

PINK HUGS,
Rita

Like Mr. Ann, Mr Live doesn't say all those romantic things...but he does them every day and he is so daggoned thoughtful of me.
It bugged me for a little bit and then I remembered I have had guys who could talk the stars out of the sky but talk can be very cheap.
He loves me all over the place every day...just like when it was the flip side, I need to learn to hear the actions to know what is real.
and in the long ride which feels better the words or the actions?
and when Mr Live does say something romantic it usually isn't those 3 words, it is more creative.
I love him.

You seem to be happy,and as everyone said there are no guarantees just take care of you and dont ignore the red flags.i wish you all the happiness.

It is real. Enjoy it. If you overthink, you risk sabotaging this. Let it unfold and all will be revealed :)

For me a good indicator (not always accurate but can reveal lots) of how a person loves and their capacity is how they treat others close to them, friends, family, esp for men, their moms and sisters. If I see patterns of unhealthy relationship behaviors then that is the red flag (how they handled past relationships, does he speak badly about ex's). Beyond that you need to just let it be what it is going to be.

People express love in very different ways. Some can say it verbally others can't. If you feel loved then you very much ARE loved :) I am like you, if something is going well I almost feel like I don't deserve it. That is where you need to do your own internal work. My thinking is this has less to do with him expressing love than with you being open to recieving it.

If it took him a while to say 'I love you' and he uses it sparingly then he probably means it. He probably has to be sure that if he says it, you will give it back. I think women sometimes give guys the short end of the stick. Men can be just as vulnerable, even more so. Remember that the other person comes into the relationship with their own insecurities and doubts.

[QUOTE] Coffeedrinker,

I shall echo what ann said.
my daughter dated her husband for 6years before they married. she was often a bit distraught, saying that he hardly ever said those three words. i reassured her, even tho sometimes I worried about it .
they have been married now for three years. he is such a good man. there is not one time that he does not say "Thanks for cooking dinner, babe".
He gets right up, and starts dishes, and helps 100% with everything they do. i could not have hoped for a better son-in-law. He is a keeper, and she knows it now, and she could not be happier. they just had their first baby,and it is beautiful to see how a family should be. i never was that blessed, man-wise.

so ,as ann said, it is not always what they say, its what they do.

I think you are a smart lady, and know how things should be for a good relationship. I am happy that you have found someone that you enjoy being with so much. time will tell. try not to worry- you rob yourself of the joy of the moment when you do.

hugs,
chicory

[
had a chuckle at this,CP

Sometimes our angst is because we are forcing ourselves to do something that is unnatural.

It's OK not to trust him.

You can give yourself permission to let the trust develop over time, as he grows a track record with you.

Instant trust, even with a good person, really isn't reality-based; trust develops through a track record of behavior - that we learn the behavior is honest, consistent, considerate, etc. We may think a person has these qualities, and therefore that we should trust them, but it's perfectly fine to wait for these qualities to be verified through a track record, before we settle into a trust.

Trust, like love, is an action thing - it's given life through actions. It is only described through words, but actually given life through actions.

There is nothing wrong with keeping an open mind, while the track record builds.

CLMI

I got a hair up mine and decided to revisit this thread today.

THANK YOU, CatLover, for the permission to be uneasy.

You're right, trust must be built, and as much as I wanna be "in love" right now today, and wanna trust this person to the Nth degree, it is simply too soon. It's like wanting a whole bunch of shared history together when you've know each other for three weeks. I mean you would know better than to wish for that!

I had a huge wallop of anxiety yesterday. I fought with it, smoked, tried to push it down, reason with it, everything I could think of, wanting to yet afraid to go to N.I.L.(nickname: "new love interest") with "it".

After a few hours, I texted him: c/m ?

40 seconds later the phone rang. He suffers from anxiety attacks periodically, so I thought if I said "anxiety" he would understand, sort of, even though mine is not certified or anything. He asked me to try and identify it. Oh crap, what was I supposed to say? I have an uneasy feeling in my gut and it has spread to my chest and my heart is racing and I'm afraid and it's all centered around you???

Well, to save all the details, he said some good things and said he'd see me at my meeting later.

I GOT MY 15-YEAR MEDALLION! last night and NLI came and sat next to me for it.

I just wanted more comfort, so I went home with him afterwards.
We talked more, I gave some more hints about my unrest, he talked about trying to live in the today and the Eastern notion of not worrying and not really caring about anything cuz it doesn't really matter, etc. (but ya know, sometimes you just want someone to put their arms around you!)

I could not shake the feeling that he is actually a fraud. That I don't know how he feels about me, and that there is some scary secret that I will only find out after I'm in love with him.

I got nothing from him all morning, which convinced me further that he is not really a very good guy and I don't know if I should stick around just in case or what. But this afternoon, there was an email that said, "How did you feel about our chat last night?" and a phone call on the way home from work, "Just checkin in to see how you're doin....do you feel better?"
Hearing his voice, listening to what he said, accepting his concern for me... well....

Man, am I a schmuck, OR! is he just doing what frauds do?

I know, I know, reading what I just wrote sounds comic. But I am not a LifeTime movie junkie, or generally prone to really bizarre thoughts. Which is what makes it worse!! Is this the infamous "Gut Feeling" that is kicking for a reason that I can't see, or am I just SCARED and trying to be cautious? Like that even works!

Not really looking for answers, cuz I honestly don't think anyone has any. But in light of my panic stint and reading this thread, and seeing Cat Lover's post, I wanted to respond.

Patience, Grasshopper.

Give the poor feller a chance!! Don't judge him until he does do something to warrant it but until then, you will drive yourself bonkers AND risk sabotaging something nice. It is almost like you dont feel you deserve to be with a nice guy? I'm sure he isn't perfect but who is. Let go of expectations and just enjoy what you have NOW.

I am the last one to talk about relaxing when it comes to love so that is why I just wrote what I did. I see myself in you and how I react when someone nice cares about me. I am looking for something, anything to convince me that he is a fraud just so I can say 'a ha!!!' and force an end. Truth is I am just scared to death of feeling things that are actually intense and GOOD. This happens when we experience so much intense and bad stuff. I don't blame you at all for being wary.

No don't trust him unconditionally but if you start to constantly question his sincerity and motives and express so much fear it is how the sabotage begins. It will push him away. If you have to convince someone that you care over and over, it gets tiring and feels like rejection to the person you are constantly questioning. He is going to start to think that what he is doing isnt ever enough and all he gets is anxiety instead of joy. Be happy, show him that you are happy and let it take its natural course.

Coffee-
Do you want some input from me?

yes, still, i sure do.

i am not on very often these days, but i will look for your response.

and, babyblue, i really really appreciate what you had to say. i think you're absolutely correct, and one of the things i said last week when we were "in it" was that i was afraid he would get sick of me. his reply was: "i doubt seriously that i will get sick of you. you know, i think everyone is a little messed up, but i really don't think you're all that messy, and i have a pretty good sense of who you are -- that's why i'm choosing you."

it was thoughtful, sensitive, and reassuring.

and yeah, he said once that it's a little offensive that i seem to often question him, or not "believe" him. he asked how many times in the past five months has he lied to me? (answer: zero, or pretty close to it)

ok, here's another thing:

my therapist was counseling me last week about my spinning. my feelings of inadequacy in the bedroom department, as compared to the string of lovers N.L.I. has had. since the previous "relationship" was with a sexual dynamo, i have a lot of feelings of jealousy, and low worth in that arena.

anyway, therapist said, "ya know what you do A LOT, christine? you try and get into other people's heads. stop it! stay in your own head, pay attention to YOUR feelings, and stop trying to figure out what other people's feelings are."

that's what i'm trying to do right now. it's been a couple of days. so far, it's working really well.

I think it is good to express your insecurities with him but the trick is to acknowledge that they are exactly that, insecurities. That is different then accusing someone and the finding out they didn't do something. Telling him that you sometimes feels vulnerable may make you feel a lot better. And it will help him to understand where you are coming from.

I go a step further than trying to get inside someone's head, I actully conjur up whole scenarios of drama that I play out to detail and actually convince myself that it is the truth! Case in point: I was sure that the bf's ex-gf was still involved in his life. I convinced myself that this was true even though he never ever mentioned her, told me in the beginning they were a mismatch and he was clearly thinking of and caring about me. But noooo, I was certain that I wasn't getting the full story. I even snooped around facebook for 'clues' (bad I know but Im kind of a drama queen). Nothing came up but I told myself that he was just good at being deceptive! There was NOTHING he did or say to lead me to think this other than my own wacked out freaky chick mind!

I had worked myself up so much that I was pouty and giving him the silent treatment for something that not only didn't happen but wasn't true. It was the sabotage monster in me looking for justification as to why he couldn't possibly be 100% into me. There HAD to be someone else sharing his attenting (the ex gf in this case) right? There was no way he could really be that into me and only me. I even blurted out something about her and he was really baffled and in a meek and feeble voice said "but... but I don't even talk to her." I felt like such a heel. I realized that the idea that I was the only one in his life in truth was so overwhelming for me in a good way that I think that is why I made up this crazy drama in my head.

To really sit with the fact that he really does love me, and I am the only one downright freaks me out. It is a huge change for me in terms of men and relationshps where I never felt that they wanted me 100% or that I could possibly have everything he would need. Sad if I think about it but that is why I am also in therapy. She asked me once, "what would it take for him to convince you that he loves you? Why can't you be loved that much?". It was a huge eyeopener of my never feeling like I was good enough to be loved.

From what you write Coffee, he is really really into you. And I'm not just saying that. Rather than feel anxious, start feeling lucky because you are :)

Yes, and this eye opener has me convinced now that I wouldnt recognize it if it grew wings and flew into my house with a sign from god.

But coffeedrinker, I think what you have now is good. Sometimes working into the scary stuff will put us in a tailspin. Best to talk about it rather than start that spinning top, the momentum can take you into the stratosphere. Okay, take all that and make them "I" statements. Damn.

Beth