question about manipulation vs the addict
 

Just a question:

How long does it REALLY take for the addict to stop trying to manipulate? Even when they are working their program and doing well? Does it boil down to a behavior that needs to be modified after sobriety or are they predisposed for manipulation and THEN comes the addiction? Just a question open for opinions.

Kim

BTW- Things are going well for me.

I think it takes a while.. putting down the drugs is often the easy part, relearning new habits and changing your life is the hard part. It takes a lot of work to stay sober.

Sometimes never. Even people who aren't addicts can be manipulative. People who aren't addicts can be liars. They can be abusive. They can lie, steal, cheat. Manipulation maybe one of their personal characteristics. Be careful not to blame all negative personality traits on drug addiction.

This speaks volumes for me.. THANK YOU!!!!!

This is true, I know people who are not addicts who are just as manipulative and abusive as the worst drug addict.. Sometimes a character defect is just that a character defect..

Perhaps it also takes longer to "right" himself if he has been living the life for a very long time?

Is your addict aware that he/she is a manipulator?

He's been told but I truly believe he does not think he is doing anything wrong....which makes it worse.

When we determine that someone else's behavior needs to be modified, we are attempting to manipulate and control someone else's behavior.

Each of us has responsibility for ourselves and how we allow others to treat us. When we set boundaries, we let go of the outcome because we do not control other people's behavior.

If someone else's behavior is unacceptable to us, we take responsibility for our boundary and remove ourself from the situation.

Don't you think it's quite possible for someone to be clean and sober and a lying, coniving, manipulative jerk?

yes

This is a good thread... There are many people who sit and let others do for them what they can do for themselves....and you don'[t have to be an addict to behave in that manner. I, myself have gone through friends that tell those little white lies just to cover their butts at times. Life is a journey and at every turn we have to protect ourselves from harm even if we don't think its around the corner. Thank you everyone that has replied to this thread......you were honest and straightforward.

Who knows?

I think the most helpful insight comes from the old AA saying: "What do you get when you sober up a drunken horse thief? A sober horse thief."

I agree with Sailor John. Who knows? I think that you are talking about a character trait vs anything else. My husband is clean and sober x's almost 5 years but he still attempts manipulation a whole lot of the time.

The question is....am I falling for it? Do I allow myself to be manipulated? Do I even want to be around someone that behaves that way?

I'll turn the question around....how long does it take for someone to stop allowing themselves to be manipulated and to continue being around someone that behaves that way?

so u r doing well your words but still finding fault with yourself. does the drinks dull these thoughts for a short while at least. in yr program u take 1 day at a time. maybe we can hope for no more in all of r lives.

Fair and honest. For me, my "conditioning" since birth as an enabler/codie has been defining my actions as "being nice". Then when i turn 180 and get angry, I am labled a b*7ch. It's a no win situation that I have allowed. Repeat..... I have allowed....I have allowed. I'm still in training. :)

Oh Yes I do :) and I know plenty of people like that too

We set boundaries for ourselves and in doing so determine how people will treat us. When we do this, we let go of the outcome because we don't control other people.

Anger is a common emotion when we don't let go of the outcome, what other people do, or not.

Girls are often raised to, no matter what, be nice/play nice. When we establish boundaries for ourselves, we are being nice to ourselves. Ain't nothing wrong with that.

We are all works in progress.

We all do. Sometimes I think we have a tendency to use someone's addiction to rationalize jerky behavior. In otherwords, we sometimes give addiction too much power and addiction becomes the scape goat, ala if it were not for his /her addiction, life would be peachy perfect.