Manipulation and Control
 

Hi everyone,

I have been silent for awhile because of course I got sucked back into my exabf's life and have been trying to tell myself that he is getting better.

So not true. So my hope today is to gain strength from all of you in learning about manipulation and control. I was blindsided and I think it was because I did not spot the manipulation that was going on.

My ex is currently living with his sister and told me the other day that at the end of the month he is moving. He doesnt know where or with what money its just that by the first he has to be out. When I questioned him further he said that he and his sister just dont get along. Sound familar? Same story he said about me and him.

So I told this story to a friend and his said right away my ex was manipulating me into begging him to come home.

So here is where all of you come in. Help me understand manipulation and how it works and give examples of experiences of manipulation so that I can prepare myself for this....

Thanks everyone....

My experience has been that the addict will work on making me feel like I am being cold, uncaring, selfish when I have tried to take care of me. It is a subtle and sometimes not so subtle attempt at looking like he is doing all that he can.... being the "good guy", but I am not willing to help him out.

He was good at making me feel guilty for not "giving him another chance"... everyone makes mistakes type of approach. I usually felt like, "ok, I signed on for the committment and I have a responsibility to help out and be there for him" What I often didn't allow myself to see clearly was the price that I would pay... he didn't (maybe couldn't) follow thru and there was not a return of the comm. and support. He made it easy for me to feel bad about me. Sometimes because I wouldn't do what he wanted... (guilt, etc) other times because I did what he wanted... ( how could I have so little self-respect, be so dumb as to trust him, etc.)

Stay true to you and remember "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... guess what?!?!?! Take care of you. You matter and you need to be healthy and happy above all.

Wow Cynical... this is powerful! This is the type of behavior my therapist has been trying to explain to me and help me to understand. This passage says it all and in blunt, clear language. It is a huge lightbulb for me! This is what has been happening that I couldn't articulate... it's crazy making!!! I have been trying to tell myself for years that I am not nuts but only in the past 12 months or so have I started to believe it. Thank you for sharing this. I am sane. These are the things that were happening in my life. I did get lost. I was being controlled. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

they willtell youwhatever you want to hear to get thier way...many times they will play the guilt card, or make alot of empty promises that they cant keep.. just be aware that most of the time while they are talking they have a motive and it has nothing to do with us,just to get thier drug, anytime they make you feel guilty, is manipuation

Wow cynical, that is AH to a tee. Thankyou for posting that in words. It was always hard to put into words what he was doing. This really helps.

NH7

these posts have helped me a great deal in understanding my boyfriend's behaviour. this describes him to a T. knowing others have experienced this makes me feel less crazy...

Here's my worse manipulation story. About 6 months ago my son had drug court. A few hours before he got home i found out a dear friend of mine of 20 years had committed suicide. When he came home he wanted me to leave work early and take him to the jail to pick up his poseession (ipod). I had missed a lot of work when i found out so i had to stay to finish my work and couldnt go. He got very upset saying i was always thinking of myself. I explained to him that i had found out a friend had died and i really couldnt deal with an argument. He went into a tirade about how he had had a bad day too and all i ever thought about was myself. He was so angry at me for not picking up his ipod that when we went to court he pulled his PO aside and told him that he couldnt quit using drugs because i was always drunk and smoking dope. His PO didnt believe him and i requested that they drug test me knowing they wouldnt find anything - they refused to drug test me because they knew it was a lie. What upset me the most is that even though he knew i had lost a friend that day he was still willing to do whatever it took to get his ipod and if i didnt comply he was going to punish me. That was the day that everything changed for me. It was the day that i realized he did not care about me or how i felt. even when experiencing loss it was all about him and what he wanted. In a way i'm glad he was so blatant about it becuase at that point i could not deny that he was manipulting everything to his benefit. It was also an eye opener for the court as to the depths that he would sink.

a day later his dad came over. He knew my friend and sat and talked to me. As I told him about it I looked over and saw horror on my son's face. I knew that at that point he realized how badly he had treated me because even his dad was concerned for how i was feeling. But he never once apologized to me.

We so often, too often, rationalize ( excuse) manipulative/abusive behavior. We are hesitent to make harsh judgements and more likely to doubt ourselves than listen to what our gut is telling us about the manipulator's abusive character.

As I understand it, he claims to be in outpatient treatment ( paid for by insurance) which gives him the majority of each 24 hour period to do something productive, like work. And yet, he has chosen not to do this and instead, is free -loading off his sister. For all you know, he has abandoned this recovery program or perhaps been terminated from it.

This guy knows your weak points better than anyone. He knows the season. He faces homelessness because he cannot get along with his sister, a pattern. His own survival depends upon his ability to manipulate you into begging him to come home.

Get out of his way and let him fall or open yourself and children up for continued abuse.

Hi Cassandra. My latest experience has taught me that it is ok if we slip back into our old patterns of behavior, as long as we get out of them as soon as we figure out we have slipped.

Manipulation is what it is. It is part and parcel of the disease of addiction. So now that I recognize it I am going to set a new boundary for myself:

I will not allow myself to being knowing manipulated into doing things and putting up with behavior that I do not feel comfortable with.

also

I will forgive myself quickly if I slip back into old codendent patterns of behavior and immediately take steps to get back on track.

I am remember that setting boundaries makes me feel strong and in control. That is because I am in control... of me!

You are too! (In control of yourself). So when you are ready (ASAP ;-)), let go of resentments and get back on track with your recovery. Remember that it's not about him. It's about you!

Thanks so much to everyone for all of your input. Outtolunch this is exactly how I feel. I feel that things are gonna get rough over the next few weeks and I need to be strong because I know that when I am weak I fall back into the behaviors that hello-kitty mentioned. That is why I am posting and want support major big time because I dont want him back in this state. Nothing has changed.

I DONT KNOW if he is in treatment. I am depending on someone who right now is lying and manipulating me to tell me the truth. Ya right. I really am unsure about that. So I have to get on guard and be ready for the attack.

Thanks hello-kitty. You are right yesterday I felt like dirt because I had let him suck me back in. But I bounced back quickly with the help of friends. I figured out the manipulation with their help and now I am able to put a stop to it. I need you guys so I will keep posting. HELP ME NOT BE WEAK AND LET HIM COME HOME!!!!!

I dont want to get sucked back in..............

hang in there, sweetie. It is hard and it takes tons of strength, but you can do it. I tell myself the samething everytime I feel sad and feel like I could cave. Keep talking to everyone here and keep talking to yourself. There is a big wonderful world out there, keep moving into that sanity and out of the darkness. HUGS to you!!!!

Set your boundaries and be true to you. It becomes less about being weak and more about empowering yourself and those around you to make their own choices and live with the consequences.

Or just tell yourself... today I will not let him come home. tomorrow I may change my mind. But just for today I will follow through on my commitment to myself and my children.

I have known quite a few of these emotional manipulators in my life. It's amazing. They will tell you their sob story to try to get you to rescue them. However, if you don't they can always find someone else to rescue them. Remember, manipulators have an incredible ability to take care of themselves. My mom is an excellent example. I'd give you a specific case--but, wow. These stories are always so long and convuluted. I guess the last thing she called me about was eBay. She wanted me to call her and teach her how to sell something on eBay. Then, my grandmother called me----"Why don't you help your mom. We loaned her $500 because she had a negative amount in her bank account. She said that she would pay us back after she sold her wedding ring. We don't want her to sell it in the newspaper because she's all alone and we don't want strangers coming to her house. Please help her learn how to use eBay. Do it as a favor to us."

O.K. #(1) my mom is 58 years old. She is intelligent. Yes, her brain has been ravaged by drugs, but, I'm sorry. If she wanted to learn how to use eBay she could. (2) She has been saying that she would sell those rings for 20 years. (3) Why did my grandparents send her more money again. (4) (and this is my favorite) If I teach her how to use eBay, something will go wrong, and she will blame it on me. She will no longer have the responsibility to sell the rings, because it will be all my fault that she can't sell them. I know this very well because I've been there before. (5) My mom lets all kinds of weirdos into her house because she has a history of buying, selling, and trading drugs.

I have millions of examples. My point is that if your ex is capable of finding drugs, he is capable of finding a place to live. He is just trying to suck you in, so that you will feel responsible for him, and so that he can blame you when things don't go wrong. He will be fine. He will find somebody else to suck into his vortex who will "help" him. I'm sure you can imagine what kind of h*** he has put his sister through. I'm sure you can imagine why she is kicking him out.

Good luck and stay strong! Remember, you are responsible for taking care of yourself only. He is an adult, he needs to take care of himself.

I feel ALOT better today. I actually turned up the radio in my van and was bee boppin in the van!!!

I went yesterday and bought Co-dependent No More and a few other books. I have been reading and really allowing this to all sink in. I have dropped the idea that I am still dealing with the same person I fell in love with and seeing him for what he really is. I have gone back and thought about the ways he manipulated me and how I felt. Sure enough alot of my feelings were guilt and feeling sorry for him so much so that I thought I had made a mistake.

I have even been telling myself to get out of my head and get back into the world around me. Its so relieving to give the old noggin a rest. Thinking that much really hurts. I have stopped trying to anyalize everything.

I was able to spot his manipulation right away today and that made me feel good. Really their behavior is so predictable when you know what to look for. I sensed it right away because I was out of my head and in the moment and could see it for what it was.

Proud of myself for that. Thank you so much kitty. I actually wrote down the part where you said for today I will not let him come home. I put it on a post it note. That keeps me in the moment.

I just feel good. For the first time since this all started I feel very good. I am not concerned about what he is or isnt doing. I am concerned NOW with protecting myself and my kids. It hurts to much to fall into his trap of feeling guilty or sorry for him. So now I can truly say I am thinking more of my needs and my self vs him and what his needs are.

So thank you all. I really have learned alot and feel so much better about my situation....

Me too Cassandra. Just for today, I will keep the doors locked and not answer the telephone if he calls. I will allow him the dignity of working his situation out for himself, without my "help" or enabling.

Beautiful words.....:)

Oh dear. After reading the descriptions I'm wondering how much of an emotional manipulator I am/was. Scary because some of them have fit me to a tee at times. I've used many of them at times with both my AD and exAH's. With my exAH's if they had a headache my woes were ten times worse living with them and I'd tell them. If they had a bad day mine was worse because of all they put me through. Of course if they were clean my life would be so much easier and if they loved me they would see that. I guess the guilt I put on them was just as bad.

Funny, until they were put in words I could see maniputalation in them but not in me and I've done every one of them trying to get them to change. More work on me needs to be done.

Thanks.

Please be patient with me everyone. I am having a moment of weakness.

I guess it is not registering in my brain that he is manipulating me. When he said that he was moving but yet did not know where he was going or what he was going to do I didnt make the correlation and now maybe I am trying to rationalize it.

Why would he tell me he doesnt know where he is gonna go? I mean wouldnt it just be easier to say "hey can I come home?" Please help me understand why this is manipulation. I asked him later if he knew what he was gonna do and he said no. Then I said "well you have plenty of places to go. Your moms, your sisters, your grandmas etc.." So if he has places to go why would he be manipulating me?

Its not like he is gonna be homeless.

Would you call this manipulation???? Today when I picked up the baby from him he asked if he could "borrow" a couple of smokes. I handed him my pack and said this is all I have (there was only one in there).

If that is manipulation, how?

Like I said before its not like he is gonna be homeless. He really does need to keep me posted as to his living arrangements because of our child we have together and because she stays with him during the day while I am at school.

I just need to get a better handle on this. Right now I am feeling sorry for him. I WILL NOT beg him to come home. But I would be open to talking about working towards that.

I am just at a loss please help me.....

How are you feeling? Are you worried about him? Concentrating on where he's going to go, what he's going to do, etc.? eeling bad because he's in this position and he can't even afford a pack of cigarettes?

If so, then it's probably manipulation because you're all focused on HIM again.

Get out of his mind, sweetie. Chances are, he's not going to move tonight...he will still be at his sister's tomorrow, when you drop the baby off. So, worrying about all this tonight is getting you where?

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

Im not worried about him moving. I am worried that I may be wrong to think he is manipulating me.

Its easier to handle this if he I know he is manipulating me. I feel stronger if I think that he is still acting out his addictive behavior.

If he asks to come home he gives you the control - he is the weak one needing you. If he guilts you into asking him home then he keeps the control - becuase then it is YOU who wants it not him who needs it. They want US to be the one offering because then they dont have to take responsibility.

My son is a pro at this. He will complain and whine about a situation in the hopes that I will just fix it instead of just asking up front for something. If he asks me I may say no but if he can guide me into knowing what he wants and offering it then he can say - well I didnt ask for this you just did it on your own. They look at it as a gift freely given instead of a favor someone is doing them.

Think about it this way - what would be easier for you - calling a friend and asking for a loan when your having trouble buying groceries or having them on their own send you a gift card to a grocery store becuase they knew you were having trouble? The manipulator wants gifts given to them becuase they dont want to repay or have any stake in asking for something.

So let me get this straight. If he hints around to what his problem is and swoop in and fix it or beg him to come home then to him it looks as if he is coming back on his terms. Meaning he doesnt have to do anything. This probably also would free him up to say to his family that I needed him to come and help me at home with the kids because I am going to school working etc.

Am I right? I am a very real authentic person I say how I feel and try not to beat around the bush. Which is why I am having trouble getting this through my head. I keep telling myself well if he really wanted to come home or work things out so we could work towards him coming hom he ASK right?

Thanks amy and winnie....

Wow.

Talk about spot on. The only thing my AH couldn't do "better" than me was with monthly issues. :P

Cassandra in my experience yes that is manipulation. Its form is more passive agressive and it works well on very giving people and codies. (do some research on passive agressive personalities and see if those trends fit your ex.)

my son uses that tactic all the time with me - he learned it from my ex. when i get upset he says - i didnt ask you to do this and he's right. he never asked me to do it so to him that means i cant complain. everything must turn around to be my fault in his mind - because if he sees something as his fault then he will have to deal with his problems. if he comes home because i ask him to or bail him out then in his mind i am willing to deal with him as he is and he doesnt have to change. if he asks me to come home and i agree then he has to deal with it on my terms. they use our love against us - they use our empathy against us - they use our giving nature against us. Its not that we cant ever give to them - but we have to give on our terms not theirs.

The way I deal with it now is that when he starts whining about a situation I say "that's sad for you" "so what are you going to do" "yeah that sure sounds like its going to be hard on you." I dont give him advice on what to do to get out of it and I dont offer my help - I've done enough for him there's no way I'm offering to do more. If he comes to me and says he has a problem, needs my help then it gives me the opportunity to say yes or no - if yes then I can easily set boundaries. I say no a lot now and tell him he'll have to find out how to accomplish these things on his own. They want us to save them - they want us to go back to the doormat role so that they dont have to change or help themselves.

Manipulation is whenever you are second guessing as to wether it is or not, everyone is capable of manipulation or not and many peope do it on a daily basis to get what they want..its human nature, but the moment of clarity is the addict uses it for eveything, that is thier MO..do only what you feel comfortable with, giving him a few cig is no big deal, giving him a place to live is..or giving money, the only way i judged to see if my ex was working his recovery or not is if he would take responsibility with his choices?? if he didnt then i know he wasnt working any program..it didnt matter what he thought he was dfoing for himself in recovery..it was what I NEEDED to see happen and behaviors to change before i would consider anyhting

Cassandra one question - do you know the line between something being his problem and something being yours? Right now is this your problem? if its not then why should you be responsible to solve the problem. If you do help to solve his problem it then becomes your problem and then you have to deal with the consequences not him.

You are so right winnie. If I ask/beg him to come home then it dissovles all of his responsibility to change anything (in his mind). Like you said if I ask him to come home then its like saying I accept you the way you are. Good Point.

I really feel like I can make it through this if I can "see" this behavior then I dont feel guilty or sad or want to help him because I can see what he is doing.

This am we got over 9 inches of snow. I dug my van out for 20 minutes. Braved the snow covered roads and I get to his house and he says "oh what you cant keep her (the baby) for a couple of hours?" I said that I have to go to work. When he shoveled a way to my van he opens the door and says "its a snow emergency" Ok ya but work doesnt close. I work in a hospital.

He was mad because his sister stayed home from work today and they fight. So he is mad because now he has to sit there with her all day. So he is taking it out on me because again in his mind its my fault that this is his life.

I didnt tell him to move in with his sister. He thought it was a GREAT idea. I didnt tell him to abuse his pills. He thought that was a great idea.

So as long as I can see the manipulation it is easy for me NOT TO WANT HIM BACK. Until he starts to make REAL visual changes there is nothing I can do for him. He has to do it for himself. That may or may not ever happen.

Thanks winnie. Your advice is sound. I see it when I look at it from your perspective......

Yes, I see all of these things as being his problem because I know his has options. They may not be good options but he has them. Now whether or not he choses to look at it that way is his problem.

I just want to be able to see the manipulation as exactly that. When I see it, like I said before, then I dont feel like I have to SOLVE his problems because he made these decisions. I told him what he had to do to remedy this situation he doesnt want to do that so therefore its not an issue for me.

It makes me feel better telling myself its manipulation vs telling myself that he doesnt love us anymore. If that makes sense....