Ok, this thread is now all over god's green earth! GettingFree - I don't find Former Doormat's posts shaming, manipulative or full of tactics. I'm not saying you don't.

That said, I do sometimes have those reactions to other people's posts (I am not talking about yours). I have learned to examine why I am having that reaction and it has really helped me in my recovery. I'm just throwing this out as a suggestion - many times I have assumed where someone is coming from based on what I have been through in my life.

For example, if someone says to me "I think you meant to say" or "I think you really meant," I FLIPPIN FREAK OUT because my AH was forever telling me what I REALLY thought. Many patient people have taught me it's not always meant the same way. It's the intent behind it.

All for what it's worth, of course.

OT__Judy; thanks for your reply, and truly I am so happy for your success. It is apparent you have both done your work and continue to do so....that is encouraging to me.

I did not know about your H's past. Yes...the complete opposite of my AH who still has $, pretige, etc.,etc so no....he doesn't really think anything like that could ever happen to him. He is a self-made man and thinks he can control and self-will himself through any situation or he cuts his loses and goes..apparently what he did to our marriage and family. (He is not a "bad alcoholic".haha)
Thanks for sharing this...it gives me a new idea where your point of view comes from. Again, I am glad you are both doing what you need to do to live a healthy life and sharing your experiences with us.
Susan

p.s. I agree about not borrowing trouble...I don't have enough energy for that!

Jessica,

I used the word S.LI.P in my post because I was sseing this as a slip but if you feel it's what you need to do for you than by all means go do it. Your recovery is your recovery and we all have different ways of recovering.



Cheers

Ngaire

You're right, it was not intended that way but I do see your point. I guess b/c I've been reading Jess' posts since last July, we've laughed together, shared stoires... I guess I felt I know Jess well enough that I might have had a little insight...

Heading to the back of the class...

Hey Judy,

I understand better where you're coming from now. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Hi Denny,

I'd be the first to acknowledge I'm getting triggered by what I see. And my kneejerk codie reaction is to want to pull out examples to demonstrate what I'm talking about, but I know that's my old stuff and it won't accomplish a whole lot. (Can you believe my family used to call me tenacious? :)) I'm working on what I sense being enough, and trusting my senses, without validation from elsewhere. That said, I know from what a few others have written, I'm not entirely alone in my perceptions. It may be an agree-to-disagree thing.

Hey Jazz,

No back to the class. I respect your willingness to question and I'm sure Jess does too. I know I'm still learning tons.

gf

((jess))

How is giving examples a kneejerk codie reaction?

Are you saying tenacious is a good thing or a bad thing?

Thanks!

The codependent in me had a really hard time accepting that others didn't see things as I saw them. It was too dissonant. So the codependent in me found it extremely uncomfortable not 'proving my point'. I couldn't make peace with the fact that others might simply have a different opinion, or see things differently. So the kneejerk reaction in this case would be to keep the argument going, to bring out more examples, to demonstrate my point with more support, in order to get someone else to see things as I did.

Make sense?

Tenacious can work both ways and has for me. It can be a strength and it can be a weakness. In this context, I saw it as a weakness.

In the context of what I described above, being tenacious would be to not let an argument die, to be compelled to go back, again and again, to try and get others to see, or agree, with my point of view. And I was desperate to have the truth known. It's part of growing up in a dysfunctional family. As a teenager, my family used to decribe me as a "dog with a bone".

But it has been a great strength too -- I don't give up easily on projects, I'm a relentess researcher which is a benefit in my work, and I tend to see that there 'must' be a way to get anything done, even if there are obstacles at first.

Make sense?

Yep. Thanks.

Jess,

As others have said, none of this is about letting anybody else down here. I struggled long and hard -- and still am -- to separate other people's expectations of me from my own expectations.

This is about your recovery. What you want for yourself, and for your children. You've made choices. You get to experience them. You get to learn. You get to choose again. And experience those choices. And keep learning.

One thing life is not short of is lessons. I keep bumping into them. :)

Keep posting. Let us know how things are going.

best
gf

Refer back to Jessica's post #155. This is Jessica's post and that is ALL it is about.

Jessica...forget about being a people pleaser...SR is like the rest of the world, and what other people think of you is none of your business.

For what it's worth...I do think you were kicked when you were down.

I am very sorry this wasn't the safe haven of understanding you hoped for.

Interesting, to me that is, is that I NEVER see the addicts kicking at each other....in those forums there is support and encouragement.
I think I would rather hang with them.

This is about me,...but I am thoroughly disgusted with this thread. It, to me, is an example of what doesn't work and what not to do. And an inability to focus on what is important in many cases and the purpose of these forums.

Now....to all responders.....live and let live.

pm me anytime Jess.
I am glad to know that you felt I was supportive of you and where you are at.
I have seen that also in some of the responses. Take what you need and leave the rest at the doorsteps of those they belong to.

I applaud your courage in coming back and speaking up about your feelings.
hugs,
live

A great person once told me that when you go through a major life changing event, you HAVE to go through it. You can't go around it. When G and I were seperated, I was going around it. That left a lot of unanswered questions over time b/c like Pick said, I didn't see all the bad anymore and forgot what it was like when he was here. This last month has been hard for me. I'm bitting the heck out of my tongue because I don't want to force or control the outcome of any situation. I want to be able to sit back and not control G's actions, I want to be able control MY actions. I HATE that out of control feeling I feel when I try to control something I have no right trying to control.

I can actually SEE where I make a wrong choice and when I do try to control something, and I stop myself. I walk away.

enough said for now, I'll probably just start confusing people again. I know what I'm talking about and that is very comforting to me.

I can honestly say that I'm a little leary about "venting" here anymore. This was my place of solitude. Somewhere I could "let it out" and people understood. I know some of you think I should be further along than I appear, but remember, looks can be deceiving.

You are my e-family. I'm not going anywhere.

hugs, Jess!

I just learned something valuable last week. There is an ignore button you can use for those who are detrimental to your journey. And mine.

Everybody has an opinion, that doesn't mean they are all equal, some are more informed, some are more understanding, some are more compassionate, some are helpful, some are harmful.

I am hitting the sack now...but will check back with you in the morning.
Sweet dreams.
live

do it however it works for you jess

GettingFree:

As I've said before, it was never my intention to come across as shaming, manipulative, or using tactics. But none of my responses were directed to you when you felt compelled to step up and put me (and other responders) in my place. In fact, I don't believe I've ever responded to any of your posts in the past.

You say that you've been "advocating for respect in others' place in their recovery journey, whatever that may be," but you're not extending the same level of respect for me.

Yes, you're right a similar thing happened with you when you made a comment a few weeks back in a thread started by Live. But do you realize that in both cases, you stepped forwarded and felt compelled to put me in my place, then jumped to both posters' defenses, and answered for them in both instances? I'm not going to ask you if you realize how critical you came across then and how critical you're coming across now, you've admitted to that.

What do you hope to achieve by listing my shortcomings in great detail and in a public forum? To make me see the errors of my ways? To change me into a kinder, gentler person? To mold me into someone who won't invoke memories from your past? Or simply to hurt me?

I've already explained to you that I can't be who you'd like me to be, I can only be myself. If that's not acceptable to you, then feel free to add me to your "Ignore" list. I've had enough of your criticisms, much more than I deserve, so I'm going to take you up on your offer:

Take a flying leap.

Jess......so glad you are still around.

I got a lot to think about from this thread. Take as much time as you need to do what you need to do...I am sure you will. I think I can speak for everyone here when I say we are all just trying to do the best we can with what we have to work with......good for all of us for trying to better ourselves and our situations.

Mom & Dad, quit fighting! Can't you see I love you both!?!? LOL

(facetiously typed)...

I like both GFs and FDs posts...just thought I'd add my 2 pennies worth!

HAHA....I do,too. Maybe a good night's sleep would help us all.......I know that it would me! :)

Well gang I think everybody has had a chance to learn a little. Shall we call it quits on the various subjects that have hijacked this thread? If anybody wishes to start a new thread on a specific subject please do so.

Mike