Heres a couple questions for you all........
 

Do you know how much they really drink or have you a rough idea ?
Do they drink in bars or at home, or both ?

Since being a member of this site I have read numerous posts and a lot write about their AH drinking beers but there doesnt seem to be an awful lot about those that are drinking spirits.
My reason for posting is that as I have lived with an AH for so long it's almost become 'normal' for him to drink spirits every day.

I wonder is mine one of the minority drinking these large amounts every day or are there many more of you ?

This is a typical week for him just drinking at home of what I know about,and doesnt include when he stops off for a quick one on his way home.

Mon - Thurs Each Day
Between 2 - 6 pints of Lager and between 35cl and 75cl of Vodka or Gin

Fri - Sun Each Day
4 - 8 pints of lager and between 75cl and 1ltr of Vodka or Gin

My guess is that his liver is trying to escape because he has a lump the size of a melon sticking out of his stomach and he coughs up blood after a heavy night.
But guess what Ladies and Gents ? He hasnt got a problem and doesnt need to see a doctor !!!!

Look forward to comparing ......
Sharon

I honestly don't know. I sort of don't even care anymore. He hides it, but he's a vodka man too. The other night when I went to bed--he always crashes early on a dry day or a drunk day--and the room smelled like a distillery. Gross.

mine became a closet drinker - he'd hide it - vodka was his choice too. i never realy knew how much he was drinking, but i'm sure it was alot at the end.

hey there! I would take a close look at #5 and #6

Symptoms and signs of liver disease


1. ABNORMALLY YELLOW DISCOLORATION OF THE SKIN AND EYES. This is called jaundice which is often the first and sometimes the only sign of liver disease.

2. DARK URINE.

3. GRAY, YELLOW, OR LIGHT-COLORED STOOLS.

4. NAUSEA, VOMITING AND/OR LOSS OF APPETITE.

5. VOMITING OF BLOOD, BLOODY OR BLACK STOOLS. Intestinal bleeding can occur when liver diseases obstruct blood flow through the liver. The bleeding may result in vomiting of blood or bloody stools.

6. ABDOMINAL SWELLING. Liver disease may cause ascites, an accumulation of fluid in the abdominal cavity.

7. PROLONGED GENERALIZED ITCHING.

8. UNUSUAL CHANGE OF WEIGHT. An increase or decrease of more than 5% within two months.

9. ABDOMINAL PAIN.

10. SLEEP DISTURBANCES, MENTAL CONFUSION AND COMA are present in severe liver disease. These result from an accumulation of toxic substances in the body which impair brain function.

11. FATIGUE OR LOSS OF STAMINA.

12. LOSS OF SEXUAL DRIVE OR PERFORMANCE.


If any of these signs or symptoms appear, consult your physician immediately.

Prevention:
Don't drink any alcohol!

Mine drank Vodka, Rumplemintz (not sure how that is spelled)
and beer....He drank in bars alot.
He always had a beer in front of him along with the
rock glass niether of which sat emptly very long....
When he as at home he kept a bottle of vodka in the freezer
and sipped on it while drinking a beer, didn't want my boys to
see him drinking all that vodka, I guess he thought the beer
would appear more acceptable to them...funny isn't it?

Mine would drink an 18 pack of beer a day. When he wanted the world to think he wasn't a drinker anymore he switched to vodka. At the end he'd go through two 350ml bottles a day. My AH has pancreatitis from the drink. Chronic diarreah (sp?), unable to digest fats, extreme weight loss. And he only drank at home or in his car during breaks/lunch at work. He never went out to bars.

No kidding?!! Neither does mine!!!!!:a102:

Last time I saw him drinking at home, he would have at least 10-12 0z (?) beers from the minute he walked in the door, until about 10:45 when he would shuffle upstairs; every night......for years. Was buying 2-24 pks at a time but tried to leave 2 in refrig. for next night.

I know he now fancies himself a wine expert, but also still drinks beer,too. (Is he smoking,snorting anything else? who knows....he has surprised me in the past the he was and I had NO idea, except that he was "off".) Honestly, I have no idea but despite what my head knows, I am "secretly worried" he is now drinking less since we have been separated,etc. Actually, that is not only sick on my part; it defies logic (so does he.....he is getting really odd acting sometimes........and seems like he is barely keeping it all together. He is lying a lot now,too.

Hi Sharon,
My husband doesn't drink in or around the home that is one of my boundries. I can only tell if he is drinking by the smell. Even when I don't care
the nose knows. My H use to drink 6-8 beers a day now he drinks 1-2 and often will skip a day. Miracles will never cease, please step over the sarcasm.
I try not to focus on it anymore as long as I get what I need and my kids are happy the focus is now on me!!! Sharon things will get better, Take care of you!!!

MIne drinks 6 pints (min) to 8 or 9 pints (max) during the day; a bottle of red wine with dinner (maybe more than a bottle some nights) and then a double whisky as a "nightcap". I make that at least 20 untis a day (whats the reccomended max for men.. 21 units a week!)

He never appears drunk at all.. and no physical symptoms. Apart from getting thinner (he only weights about 10-10.5 stones (140-147 lbs for you non brits) whilst being over 6 ft tall) He eats very little - maybe some supper, but no breakfast or lunch. He does absolutely no exercise- even takes the car to the pub which is a 5 minute walk away.
He holds down a highly paid job- admittedly as a self=employed person working from home (regulates his drinking to fixed times of the day)

>> All this of course shopuld say he did (In the past tense)- he's just moved out. Not sure how the new OW will take this amount of drinking when she realises!

D drank at the worst times about 8-10 pints of beer a day. I never knew him drinking spirits although while he lived with his mother she said he had a phase of drinking whiskey as well as beer - no idea how much though.

Having said that, while we were together and D was drinking 8-10 pints he had admitted there was a problem and had started to get help - it was quite a short phase. Prior to that I couldn't tell you accurately because I can't remember well enough, he might avoid drink one or two nights a week but drink 4-8pints on every other night. He was always aware there was some level of problem so was usally doing things to try and contain it (like not starting to drink till the booze shops shut).

Drinks beer, Corona, usually eveyday between 2-10 bottles, but not lately 'coz I've been so mad! If he drinks liqour it's Jameson (ewww) and does shot of this, said last night he drank wihne which I know is b.s., he drank beer. he drinks at work, in the resturant buwsiness so there's always a bar he can get free booze, drinks beer at home. Becoming a closet drinker as i am putting my foot down. Unstablelady, i was rasied in the UK and because I am an obsessive fan of Coronation Street and Eastenders, he thinks I should think it's normal to drink all the time he says "that's the way it is where you're from, they go to the bar on their lunchbreaks" WHAT???!!! LOL yes, real life is just like Coronation Street. I think it is more accepted in the UK (was when I was there anyway) have the laws become stricter? I was never carded there, even as a teen, but I left in '96.
Lies without fail every single time he drinks, no matter what.

My x was a vodka drinker as well. When we first met I thought it was only beer and alot at that. Then I noticed sometimes he'd just get very out of it, very different kind of drunk and I had no idea what was wrong with him. Then I found out he had been drinking vodka. Hiding the pints. It came to the point that no matter if he had one or two beers, he would always hit the vodka.

He was a lone drinker. No bars for the most part, would just go out, get a pint (?) and just sit outside on a bench, in the woods, a room and get totally obliviated.

He's in rehab now. But to this day, when I see a bottle of Smirnoff anywhere - I get so mad! LOL

I don't think it matters how much or what they drink, if their lives are unmanageable due to drinking, it's too much.

Remember, 1000 drinks is not enough and 1 is too many!

No Judy, it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but I think some info is good for people to share. Like my AH. For years, just drinking beer, he was a pretty functional A. When he switched to vodka he went to a skidrow drunk in a matter of months. That sort of info might be helpful to someone else. JMO Thanks

TomsGirl,

I didn't mean it that way. The bottom line is it doesn't matter how much or what they drink. If one can't live with it, what does it matter.

Nothing I've ever read says "an 18 pack a day and a bottle of vodka" classifies one as an alcoholic. There are no guidelines. I know several folks who drank 3 cocktails a night over the course of 30 years and are alcoholics. How? Because they could not go one single night without their 3 cocktails and "THEY FELT" their lives were unmanageable because of it.

It doesn't matter how much or how little one drinks ..... it's how it effects their lives that determines if drinking is a problem.

Many folks here (edited due to my foot-n-mouth problem :09: )seem to have a preconceived notion that an alcoholic has to be a messy falling down disgusting skidrow drunk to be considered an alcoholc. That simply is not true.

My husbands sponsor drank a 1/2 pint of vodka a day. He carried it around in a flask while going to work in the City as a financial advisor. One day he realized he "could not stop" and he went to AA and has 10 years sobriety. Again, how much and what someone drinks does not determine if they are an alcoholic or not.

Me, I am not an alcoholic, but I can go to a bar on any given day, have a couple of beers, maybe 3 shots and 2 drinks and go home. I've also known raging violent alcoholics who only drink beer! My husband was one of those for many years, then right before rehab he added Blackberry Brandy to the mix (he didn't care you could smell it a mile away!) The next day I wouldn't have to do the same thing and it would probably be 6 months or more before I did the same thing. I am not an alcoholic.

I don't like people, especially people who are new to this, to think that if someone drinks a ridiculous amount of liquor/spirits this makes them an alcoholic because it doesn't and as enablers in recovery, it shouldn't matter to us anyway.

Are you sure? Judy - are you by any chance having a foot-in-mouth disease episode?? As we're fellow sufferers I feel nudgeworthy!

You're right that alchol dependency and abuse is based on life effects but I think this post was more about itchy curiosity, which I reckon we all have sometimes. It may be the case that we 'shouldn't' be dying to ask but hell if I'd had the guts when I first joined I'm sure I'd have asked - I didn't have a clue re amounts others drank!!

Honest gov' I think it's just itchy question - not alternative diagnosis methods - we have a duck for that!

OK, equus, I edited my post for I was making an irrational generalization, thank you for pointing that out to me. My apologies!

Yes, I agree it's just an itchy question, but those type of questions are what get us enablers back on the "hamster wheel". If we (generalizing here) enablers start watching and wondering "what are they drinking, how much, when, where" etc, then that takes our time and our thoughts away from us and once again puts the attention back on the alcoholic.

Does that make my feeling/opinion clearer?

Sometimes the attention should be on the alcoholic in regards to "you" and your future. Because I never shared any financials with my AH his current predicament does not affect me in the wallet in the least. For other's on this board, if their A went down as quickly as mine did they would have been blindsided, at least financially. Therefore, I believe you have to pay some attention to the A and the progression of their disease for your own sake, not theirs. Ignorance is not always bliss. Again, JMO.

I humbly disagree.

Everyone should be savvy enough to be financially independent of their SO, in this day and age. Paying attention to what your spouse is doing is something that should be done whether they are an alcoholic or not. I call that communicating, no easy feat while living with an alcoholic who refuses to communicate.

Folks shouldn't use the excuse "paying attention to the alcoholic" as a way around not dealing with ones own enabling issues. Folks should be paying attention to themselves and their well being, not the alcoholics.

It's certainly not like it was when my mom & dad were raising a family.

I find all of your posts very intriguing to the fact that most mentioned A's here are hiding and/or not drinking at home. My AH drinks at home beer only (no hiding) & only to a point that he gets a good buzz going & he keeps to himself. However, whenever he gets out w/his buddies, he seems to loose control & drinks liquor - that stuff gets him to do crazy things (DUI, sleeping in the car over night in shopping parking lot, etc.). What kind of A is my AH compared to yours I wonder?

JD

Never mind my above statement; I started reading this threat, left for lunch & came back. In the meantime Judy pointed out rightfully that it actually doesn't matter how much or what they are drinking. Problem is when it starts affecting life; how come I so quickly fell back into the loop & forgot what MY problem was all about? For a day or two ever since I found this website I thought I had it "down", but I should have known better that this is an ongoing recovery for us enablers... Gosh I think, I am understanding the scope of my recovery a bit better each day...

JD

PPS. Thanks Judy for sharing & reminding us of what truly counts....

Thankyou to you all
 

Wow...what a response, that made for some interesting reading didnt it?

Thankyou to all of you for sharing your experiences with us, in some respects I feel quite guilty in saying that I'm glad Im not the only one.

Its difficult to reply to all of you personally, so I'll try to get my message accross in one post.

Thanks to gormll for supplying the info on liver disease, I knew most of the symptoms and spoke with my doctor only last week at an appointment that my AH refused to go to with me.

Her advice to me was to make him leave and find somewhere else to live as she feels that he has to hit his bottom before he will get help and I am enabling him too much.
She also felt that it was probably too late for him but without examaning him couldnt be sure.
At first I was unable to contemplate this, as after losing my young son to cancer the thought that he could die on his own was awful and my attitude was 'well if his days are numbered I'd rather he be here'
However we talked it through and he promised he would go to the doctors today....suprise he hasnt.

I understand that this is a disease but what I cannot get my head around is that he is not prepared to even TRY to get help.
To me it's like my son refusing chemo because 'it might not work'....What makes it worse is that my brother in law who is only 40 has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer and is desperate for even a 5% chance of help that is not there.
Sorry about that little rant everyone but emotions are VERY raw and to say I'm hurting at the moment is an understatement.

Anyway, back to my reply...

Equus:
Thankyou for your last sentance thats exactly all it is,curiosity.

Sarah25 - Northern lady !!!!
We live in the Westcountry all sheep and fields, but my AH is originally from Stoke On Trent ,and yes it is still like Coronation Street up there.
On a visit recently we went into the town and he wanted to go in for a drink at 10.30am (me having coffee) I said don't be ridiculous it wont be open..we went in and couldnt get a seat, so yes it is the 'norm' for a lot of Brits to drink during the day.He tells me it goes back to when the men were working down the pits in the North, how true that is who knows?

I am going to sign off now so please dont take offence anyone that I havent replied to personally and once again thanks to you all I feel as though I have a whole new bunch of friends when you reply to me.

Sharon xx :feedback:

USL ...... the son you lost to cancer, is this your husbands son also? You told me you had never quite learned how to deal with his death (no criticism, it's difficult I know), has your husband?

I know my husbands drinking escalated after our son died. Not making excuses for him, but perhaps like you, he hasn't dealt with his death yet either.

VERY TRUE!
True,BUT......I think this may be where the cloudiness comes in. To a certain extent, I do believe this is true. Especially if there is no behavior problem that comes with it (how, at a certain point this is even possible,seems questionable to me) but I suppose what we are talking here is isolated abuse of alcohol, that if it does cause a problem, is STOPPED; immediately and permanently.
Where it gets a little questionable to me is because an abnormal (in terms of physical health) amount, especially used frequently that is accepted as "normal" use. Or social; when used when alone. That, at a point (and shouldn't take an extended length of time) sounds a lot like denial; either on the part of the one drinking or concerned person; or both. When it is "noticable", I think indicates a problem of some kind. With most people, I pay little if any attention to: if or how much they drink. When I "notice" it is when there is a reason to...something is saying to me that "this is somehow abnormal".
In fact, physically MOST people (I think about 90% of the general population--maybe those ar US figures) are actually unable to drink the way an alcoholic can;ever. Their body metabolizes the alcohol in a way that does not allow this to happen. (see "Under the Influence" by Dr. James Milam and K. Ketcham)

I know for years I knew my AH's drinking consumption and really the importance to him was not casual; it was obsessive. He still does think/say that (and actually, hard to believe, I occassionally STILL question myself) I tried to "make" it "normal" in my mind somehow..........I can not do it. He acts like he can. So when people say, you can't "label" who is or is not alcoholic...I am now thinking that really, that is not true in many realms. I assume it comes from AA where, becasue it is an all volunteer program, they do not go "looking for recruits" and therefore let the person come to that conclusion for themself. (I believe they hold the same stance on interventions. Medical research has progressed a bit since AA began; but like I said.......their interest is helping those have already made hat determination and are seeking help (as per their "qualification for membership") . AA is not define by who shows the symptoms of the disease; just who wants to quit drinking.

Whew; sorry I got so long-winded. I just get annoyed in general when A's talk their talk about how they don't drink too much, everyone drinks that much, etc. All the QUACK. They are welcome to believe what they want, and actually probably most of the people they are comfortable drinking around at a certain point DO drink the same way they do. That is human nature. Does not mean it is not destructive or it is "normal" behavior, especially for an adult.

NOW; having said that :blah; I do know for me; for many reasons, how much they drink (or knowing or caring about it) is irrelevant for our purposes. If it bothers me, it is a problem FOR ME, and I am then responsible for what I choose to do about it; accept it or not in MY life. But; for me, I first had to convince myself that THIS was actually the SOURCE of the problems. I did not grow up with much drinking, I rarely do and only did a short time (abusively) in college, so I had nothing to compare AH's consumption to. HE, I find out after 30 y actually does NOT really drink much differently than his father, gf,uncle,etc so he thinks it is "normal" and they are "normal" drinkers who just have "bad luck", and "nervous breakdowns" from time to time. (Some are/were retired doctors..not skid-row bums(THEIR idea of what an alcoholic is), but alcoholic and abusive of both pills and IV drugs, but with "reasons"...)

This helps me know that it is not "just me" , "over-reacting,exaggerating" and making a big deal out of nothing; like I am often told. I know it, but denial is strong. (I expect it from AH, but I still have it,too.)

Wow! Actually these thoughts have been "caught" again lately...thanks for letting me get this out, AND all of you for posting how the A's in your life drink. It is most helpful to me; and gives me a strange peace of mind.


p.s. I also need not wonder if I should be on my ADD medication. I have been out of it for a few days, and from my rambling on here (and to you kind people who P/M me) I see my answer in an overwhelming YES! Think I better go pick them up NOW! Thanks for your kind indulgence!

I still don't know what the source was for my husband's drinking ..... his childhood? his mother? his father? me? him? and the list goes on and on and on.

However, what is important to me and continues to be is whatever his reasons, he doesn't drink now and is in recovery and works a program. I don't need to know the why's ...... he does ..... and believe me, IT IS VERY HARD FOR ME NOT TO KNOW, but for my sake and for his, I leave it alone. It's personal for him and I am not involved in it.

Alcoholics believe their own lies and I do agree that not many folks can handle booze the way an alcoholic does ....... or I should say the way their bodies metabolize it.

What a great thread!

I never really knew how much my ex drank and I can guarantee that what I did know wasn't even close to the true amount. And please don't kid yourselves that all of you know either. Some may, but the majority of you won't. The amount that I did know about concerned me because, it was a lot, it was at irregular hours, it was his only coping mechanism and it affected our relationship on a fundamental level. Actually, in the end, it didn't matter how much, why or when he drank - I couldn't bear to live with his behaviour.

I drink. In fact, I drink frequently. No-one has EVER expressed any concern about my drinking, I do not drink at irregular times, I do not go out of my way to have a drink, I can easily not bother, it is not my chosen coping method and, apart from the odd night on the lash, it does not cause the changes in behaviour in me that I see so frequently described on here. Does all of the above sound like an alcoholic in denial? Of course it does. Doesn't make me one, though.

So, the question is - is it simply the amount that your SO/child/parent drinks that brings you here? Or is the behaviour that goes along with it?

Remember the 3'C's!


I agree with all you said. That is the important part of OUR recovery from this crazy alcoholism! (and I am in need of constant reminding of it; for my own sake, though also most helpful for AH,too!) This kind of discussion is so helpful for me; to learn to trust what I know.

Hope your day is going well!

Very thought provoking minnie and I agree with every word!

If it weren't for the amount he drank, I don't think the behaviour would have
been affected in such an intolerable way.

I partly agree, Patty. However, if a person has insufficient emotional coping skills, then that is what they have whether they drink or not. It would simply be expressed in a different way. Like overeating, working too much, computer games. Or even, shock horror, codependency - lol!

Let's see...

Mom drank a fifth a day of vodka last time I was counting bottles... but then 25 years after she quit, we found a 1/2 gallon, and I realized that I had stopped counting bottles several years before she quit... so I am guessing she was above a quart a day. She mixed it with beer inside a coffee cup... I guess so we wouldn't notice that she passed out at 2 or 3 in the afternoon and would only rouse herself for a round of "hit the nearest person" with a stick game in the evening.

Sister drank about a pint a day of rum - 151 proof. She was just a sipper, ya know. Of course, she was supplementing with meth for a few years. Glad I didn't know for most of that time.

I drank in bars... Thursday - Sunday, with the occassional Wednesday thrown in. I don't think I ever drank fewer than 6 drinks... generally 10 to 15. Have no idea what that amounts to in a bottle.... "I never drank alone" - I told myself that right up until the other day when I had a memory of "fortifying" myself for a first-date, and another time of "liquid courage" in order to call a man I was interested in. But those, of course, were "exceptions"... (ha!). How lucky I was that I stopped fairly early in my progression...

My dad was a beer drinker - unless he was with people, then he drank what you were drinking. :) Generally a half-a-rack on the week nights, gung-ho and "no limits" on the weekends.

Brother was drinking 44 oz. beers on the way home from work every night until he quit. I don't know that he quit altogether, but he was at least going through a phase of controlled drinking, and "only" drinking on the weekends. He died a few years later in an accident (no booze involved), else he might also have progressed further.