Having a conversation with his sponsor Background: Since I initially discovered my XAH was an alcoholic (post divorce), he's gone back and forth between recovery and relapse every 3-6 months. We've mediated each time, and he's been on and off SoberLink several times. In the wake of each relapse, he has managed to convince everybody that he's serious about recovery, he says he will do whatever it takes, starts monitoring, he'll go to therapy but not meetings, ok fine he'll try meetings, etc. Then a few months in, he will say he needs to "move forward with his life" and shortly after discontinuing SoberLink, he will relapse. This past winter, he drove drunk with the kids, and I escalated to formal legal action including a GAL. I was granted sole custody for most of the school year, he started to see them two days a week this summer, and with the start of the next school year, he'll have them 50% of the time again. He's back on SoberLink, monitoring 5 times a day and successfully. He's been sober about five months. He says he is attending AA regularly for the first time and working with a sponsor. Part of our GAL agreement was that I would get to meet and speak with his sponsor. And now - I'm trying to figure out what exactly I would try to accomplish with a conversation, besides just confirming that he has a sponsor. If his past pattern holds, he will relapse again in March when his court-ordered monitoring is complete. I am trying to emotionally prepare myself to get back onto that merry-go-round - and I like the idea of there being someone to reach out to when I start to see signs of relapse besides the GAL / my attorney. I see now so much that I've seen before: he's confident he has control over his alcoholism, he's keeping secrets from his family so they don't find out about his drunk driving or the change in custody, etc. And now he's about to have the kids 50% of the time, which means half the time he will miss the 7 am meeting he's described as "critical" to his recovery - but not so critical that he'll make arrangements to keep going. I don't expect a sponsor to assure me that he'll be fine. But I think I would feel better if I got the sense that XAH had been honest with him vs the fleecing he's done with past therapists. Just trying to wrap my head around a conversation with his sponsor, what I would want to say, if there is any value in a conversation there at all - for me or for him. Thoughts? |
I would not make an attempt to talk to the sponsor. 1. AA is anonymous. You're asking someone to out themselves. You're asking your EX to out his sponsor, too. 2. None of your business what your EX talks about with a sponsor. 3. He (your EX) is gonna do what he's gonna do, drinking-wise. It seems really intrusive to expect a non-paid non-professional peer support member to get in the middle of this. Try looking at it from the sponsor's point of view. Your need to ferret out honesty is not his problem. It's not his circus and not his monkey. If I was the sponsor, I would not agree to a meeting with a spouse for the purpose of letting an ex wife in on the private sessions. I don't think you can force something like this. Part of the success of the Steps is dependent on discretion on the part of meeting members and sponsors. I think if I were going to AA for help but I knew someone was going to ask questions that could trip me up in court later, I would not be honest with a sponsor - and that will hurt recovery in the long-term. |
eh....i'm surprised that language was included in the agreement.....without the consent of the sponsor. it is not a sponsor's job to vouch for their sponsee, or to verify their "sobriety". AA is based on anonymity, and sponsor's role in one's recovery is/should be protected as well. for your ex to even name his sponsor is a violation of the principle of anonymity. sponsors should not be involved in the sponsee's divorce/parenting plan...that is way out of bounds. |
My ex and his sponsor have both agreed to it, and my understanding is that it is not uncommon for an alcoholic's family member to have contact with a sponsor. |
[/I]If I was the sponsor, I would not agree to a meeting with a spouse for the purpose of letting an ex wife in on the private sessions. I don't think you can force something like this. Part of the success of the Steps is dependent on discretion on the part of meeting members and sponsors. [/I] Really not my intent to "get let in on private sessions" here. My main motivation is understanding whether my ex actually HAS a sponsor - and if so, to have someone to reach out to if I think he's drinking again. Look, I know the "rules" of AA. But I have to say, as a parent of young children whom I seriously CANNOT protect, it's pretty hard to be in a position where the ONLY thing you can do if you're worried they are in danger is file an order with the court, which takes months and thousands of dollars and is only temporary because a charming alcoholic can convince a judge that he's really serious about his recovery this time. Easy enough to say his recovery is his business, I suppose, when you have zero control over his decision to put two elementary-aged kids into his car and driving them stone drunk. |
Originally Posted by CoParentToA
(Post 6985479)
Really not my intent to "get let in on private sessions" here. My main motivation is understanding whether my ex actually HAS a sponsor - and if so, to have someone to reach out to if I think he's drinking again. "Reaching out" to a "sponsor" if your EX husband drinks. How will that work? Do you think a sponsor has any more power over a drunk than the courts or a wife? I mean really? There is no burden of proof in AA. There are no lie detectors. No one is paid. No one puts one hand on a Bible and the the other one in a salute while saying, "The truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth." No one owes anyone anything. It's like Sunday school. Costs a dollar and you get what you pay for. Recovery looks like recovery. |
Originally Posted by CoParentToA
(Post 6985479)
[/I] But I have to say, as a parent of young children whom I seriously CANNOT protect, it's pretty hard to be in a position where the ONLY thing you can do if you're worried they are in danger is file an order with the court , which takes months and thousands of dollars and is only temporary because a charming alcoholic can convince a judge that he's really serious about his recovery this time. |
Originally Posted by biminiblue
(Post 6985486)
Do you think a sponsor has any more power over a drunk than the courts or a wife? I mean really? And would be a more trusted source of advice than a money-hungry attorney. True that a sponsor has less power than the courts - but they aren't inclined to take any action unless children are in "clear and present danger." Which mine were - but that only mattered for a few months. If recovery looks like recovery, he will in fact relapse this spring, and I should just resign myself to the fact that my kids will once again be put into a dangerous situation? Sorry but at a loss. |
Originally Posted by CoParentToA
(Post 6985479)
Look, I know the "rules" of AA. But I have to say, as a parent of young children whom I seriously CANNOT protect, it's pretty hard to be in a position where the ONLY thing you can do if you're worried they are in danger is file an order with the court, which takes months and thousands of dollars and is only temporary because a charming alcoholic can convince a judge that he's really serious about his recovery this time. Easy enough to say his recovery is his business, I suppose, when you have zero control over his decision to put two elementary-aged kids into his car and driving them stone drunk. I understand you are worried about your kids, and rightfully so. I just think realistically a sponsor has very little power and should not be asked to be in the middle of a contentious custody issue. You asked if you should talk to the sponsor, I'm just telling you what I saw in AA. |
Originally Posted by DontRemember
(Post 6985490)
I'm unsure of how talking to his sponsor will change anything as far as needing to file with the court if he starts drinking again. The sponsor can't grant you any legal 'orders'..you'd still have to file with the courts. Am I not thinking about this correctly? Right now, the only thing I can do is file something that asserts he is drinking. He responds to say that he is NOT drinking. We work with a GAL to mediate a few more months of SoberLink. Rinse, repeat. |
and how would you know the person he produces as his AA sponsor is really his AA sponsor? it's not like they dispense badges or anything. no one is trying to downplay the concern you have regarding your ex and the safety of your children. it's just that trying to involve someone else from AA is not going to do a damn thing to truly protect the kids. you have SoberLink which is designed to assure a sober period. your own children should be empowered to contact you immediately if things are not right or safe when they are in his care. it's advisable to include the school counselors so the children have another source of safety. |
Originally Posted by biminiblue
(Post 6985497)
I just think realistically a sponsor has very little power. |
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
(Post 6985500)
your own children should be empowered to contact you immediately if things are not right or safe when they are in his care. it's advisable to include the school counselors so the children have another source of safety. The school counselors are aware of the situation. The kids get picked up at the office so he has to check in with an adult before getting them. |
Originally Posted by CoParentToA
(Post 6985498)
I'd like to think that if I started to see signs that XAH was drinking, the sponsor would be in a position to reach out to him / offer support in a way that I myself would not be. I'll throw in my opinion of what I see here. Your plan may actually backfire in that if your goal is for your ex to remain sober having his sponsor in your "camp" voids any security/ trust between the two, ie: if he is thinking about drinking or actually drinking why would he tell his sponsor if he will discuss it with you? I'm thinking his sponsor would then be the second to last person he would approach (besides you). It's an illusion of control that you don't actually have. Right or wrong that is how it is. In no way do I mean to trivialize your concern for your children, you are right to be concerned, I get it, however in this instance your control is only on your side of the street unless and until he shows his hand as drinking again. - |
Originally Posted by CoParentToA
(Post 6985498)
I'd like to think that if I started to see signs that XAH was drinking, the sponsor would be in a position to reach out to him / offer support in a way that I myself would not be. Am I not thinking about this correctly? Right now, the only thing I can do is file something that asserts he is drinking. He responds to say that he is NOT drinking. We work with a GAL to mediate a few more months of SoberLink. Rinse, repeat. Edit: If I were you, i'd petition for 1 more year of sober link. Just know..you can not expect him to stay on it forever. At some point you will have to let go of that 'control' and hope for the best from him. |
Originally Posted by trailmix
(Post 6985513)
Your plan may actually backfire in that if your goal is for your ex to remain sober having his sponsor in your "camp" voids any security/ trust between the two, ie: if he is thinking about drinking or actually drinking why would he tell his sponsor if he will discuss it with you? I'm thinking his sponsor would then be the second to last person he would approach (besides you). - I guess I had sort of been thinking about it in that way. Like just letting him know where my head is. I have ZERO expectation that a sponsor would call me, for example, if he was aware XAH was drinking. But maybe he would encourage XAH to reach out to me himself to take the kids for a few extra days if he was aware XAH was struggling? |
Originally Posted by CoParentToA
(Post 6985491)
I guess I'd like to believe that a sponsor has more power over a drunk than an EX wife does. And would be a more trusted source of advice than a money-hungry attorney. An attorney who is well-versed in addictions, including alcoholism, could be someone good to have in our corner, as parents looking at protecting our children. Advocates and attorneys can often be found through domestic abuse help centers. |
Originally Posted by DontRemember
(Post 6985519)
Edit: If I were you, i'd petition for 1 more year of sober link. Just know..you can not expect him to stay on it forever. At some point you will have to let go of that 'control' and hope for the best from him. To date, it's the only thing that has keep him sober. So unless he is pursuing recovery or decides to at some point, I think it's going to be a case of getting on and off the legal merry-go-round for at least the next 4-5 years, at which point I hope the kids will be old enough to accurately assess whether or not they are in danger. Fun times. |
I have ZERO expectation that a sponsor would call me, for example, if he was aware XAH was drinking. But maybe he would encourage XAH to reach out to me himself to take the kids for a few extra days if he was aware XAH was struggling? again, that is WAYYYYY outside of the role of sponsor. a sponsor has a single purpose, to help guide a person thru the steps of AA. they are not the booze police. they are not therapists. they are not mediators. they are not life coaches. this is from an AA pamphlet on sponsorship: What does a sponsor do and not do? • A sponsor does everything possible, within the limits of personal experience and knowledge, to help the newcomer get sober and stay sober through the A.A. program. • Shows by present example and drinking history what A.A. has meant in the sponsor’s life. • Encourages and helps the newcomer to attend a variety of A.A. meetings — to get a number of viewpoints and interpretations of the A.A. program. • Suggests keeping an open mind about A.A. if the newcomer isn’t sure at first whether he or she is an alcoholic. • Introduces the newcomer to other members. • Sees that the newcomer is aware of A.A. literature, in particular the Big Book, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, Grapevine, As Bill Sees It, Living Sober and suitable pamphlets. • Is available to the newcomer when the latter has special problems. • Goes over the meaning of the Twelve Steps, and emphasizes their importance. • Urges the newcomer to join in group activities as soon as possible. • Impresses upon the newcomer the importance of all our Traditions. • Tries to give the newcomer some picture of the scope of A.A., beyond the group, and directs attention to A.A. literature about the history of the Fellowship, the Three Legacies, the service structure, and the worldwide availability of A.A. — wherever the newcomer may go. • Explains the program to relatives of the alcoholic, if this appears to be useful, and tells them about Al-Anon Family Groups and Alateen. • Quickly admits, “I don’t know” when that is the case, and helps the newcomer find a good source of information. • The sponsor encourages the newcomer to work with other alcoholics as soon as possible, and sometimes begins by taking the newcomer along on Twelfth Step calls. • Never takes the newcomer’s inventory except when asked. • Never tries to impose personal views on the newcomer. A good sponsor who is an atheist does not try to persuade a religious newcomer to abandon faith, nor does a religious sponsor argue theological matters with an agnostic newcomer. • Does not pretend to know all the answers, and does not keep up a pretense of being right all the time. • An A.A. sponsor does not offer professional services such as those provided by counselors, the legal, medical or social work comunities, but may sometimes help the newcomer to access professional help if assistance outside the scope of A.A. is needed. The sponsor underscores the fact that it is the A.A. recovery program — not the sponsor’s personality or position — that is important. Thus, the newcomer learns to rely on the A.A. program, not on the sponsor. A sponsor well-grounded in the A.A. program will not be offended if the newcomer goes to other A.A. members for additional guidance or even decides to change sponsors. |
Originally Posted by CoParentToA
(Post 6985491)
I guess I'd like to believe that a sponsor has more power over a drunk than an EX wife does. My life is based on step 1, that I am powerless over alcohol (and people), and that my life has become unmanageable. I can carry the message. I can't carry the alcoholic. I lead by example. That doesn't mean others will follow. I carry no illusions that I have power over anyone else, including my sponsees. I understand your concerns for your children. You have every right to be concerned. If the sponsor has agreed, then talk to him. If he's worth his weight in gold, anything said between him and your EX stays between the two of them. Sending you hugs of support. :hug: |
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