Near despair
 

My grown kids both hate me. My son won't talk with me and my daughter bites my head off every time I talk with her. Today she told me she was taking a class and asked, Are you taking it at work or did you take the day off? That started the **** storm. I am trying so hard to be neutral and not upset her. Today I told her for the first time- I feel guilty for making you so angry and I don't mean to- i just think I am having a conversation and want to know how she is. she went into you have told me about feeling guilty since may 27- when i left- and that is not true, i never used the word guilty before. I have kept conversations upbeat- i am at the pool, i went to the movies. I just got off the phone with her and i have been crying my eyes out. I don't know what to do. I stayed in teh marriage for them, and they mean everything to me. NOw i am tempted to go back so they will forgive me. i am so conflicted. I should be back out at teh pool right now being happy and instead I am here sobbing. I think STBXAH is telling them I quit drinking and I will go to counselling and MOm won't- she is the bad one here. But I can't go back. I just can't take it anymore.

You've been out only a few months. If I were you, I'd limit your contact with them. I know several people who went through the exact same scenario and dynamic and were estranged from their adult children for a while. Eventually the kids figured things out and they now have a good relationship.

I'm not sure how old your kids are, but young adults can be as difficult as teenagers at times. I'd give them a wide berth for now.

And do not for one SECOND consider going back because your kids are manipulating you into it.

qtpi......I have known sooo many situations like yours. Young adult children can be very confused within themselves...and they are still very self oriented. they don't have a lot of life experience and they can be shockingly selfish.

If it were me, I would not do any voluntary calling or contacting of them.
Take your own sabbatical from the guilt and the worry and the emotional pain that you are experiencing. Even that will be hard...I know!
Let them reach out to you.....and it may be very little or none for weeks, months, or years. But they will be back...trust me.

You are suffering more than anyone in the family...I would bet m y savings on that!
Please, Please, Please, get some more help. I know that you can't have the counselor,, any more...but there are other ways to get help.
Do it. Why NOT do it...?
You are suffering indescribable pain.....
There are group therapys...and groups are very good for this kind of pain. Because it is face to face with other humans that offer understanding and give you a shoulder to lean on!
groups are almost always much cheaper and many are nominal pr ice or even free.
I have no idea where, on the planet, you live....but, if you are in the United States...you can contact your country social services and ask for a social worker to find you a group for your needs.
You can ask you old counselor for a referral, also.
You can, also, search the internet for various groups.....
There is help and comfort for you...you just have to be a little proactive in finding it....There are, also, books on amazon that will offer you knowledge and comfort and validation.

Taking a step for YOURSELF will make you feel so much better..even if it is a baby step.....

Leave the kids alone...they will work it out for themselves....
Give it time...time...time... Ultimately, time is on your side!

dandylion

I'm so sorry, Qtpi. You know what you put up with and why you had to leave. You also know that even if he's telling the kids that, it doesn't make it true. Going back to him won't make you any happier. And I don't think it'd truly make your kids any happier, but it's what's familiar to them and they'd be able to go back to ignoring the elephant in the room, so to speak.

Like Lexie pointed out, it's only been a few months and your kids may still be trying to adjust to the changes and may be taking their uncertainty and hurt out on you, because you're the safe parent to do that with. They can't do that with their dad, because they're not sure how he'll react. It doesn't make it right for them to do it and it doesn't make it any easier for you...

Sending hugs.

My counselor said to me I should keep reaching out- if I don't, they will think, well Mom dumped Dad- I guess she dumped me too. Life is so much better on this side of leaving. I wish they could be happy for me. They saw the drinking growing up. They saw me being unhappy about it and they said they were unhappy about it. I just don't get it. I know they are young and selfish- but really. Come on. They are 26 and 28- both independent and successful and it's not like I saw them every weekend- they have their own. lives. It is time i had my own life too.

I respectfully disagree with your counselor. Your kids aren't little, and they are perfectly capable of reaching out to you if they need you. And if they DO, part of the deal is that they treat you with respect, or the conversation is OVER.

Boundaries, m'dear. Make some.

Yes. My dad used me as a weapon when my mother had enough and walked out. Sad to say, I didn't see his self-pity and irresponsible attitude for what it was at the time, and blamed her. I didn't talk for her for a while, but I did come round. Now, years later, I just don't see how she stayed as long as she did.

As a teen my words and attitude to my mother were vicious and unjustified. I was played and fell for it. I suppose I felt, as well, that she was leaving all of us (to be honest, that's what I was encouraged to think) and it didn't help that my younger brother had known what was going on for months and months whereas I'd been kept in the dark. I dunno. These things get complicated I guess. But they do sort themselves out with time.

Going back really isn't an answer. Be brave and tell them how things really are. Not the little details, but your reasons for leaving, and reassure them that just because you're no longer with their dad, it doesn't mean your love for them has changed at all. It may take a while for them to process all this, and accept how it is. But they can, and they no doubt will, given time.

qtpi.....you can take this for what it is worth...but, I think the more you do the reaching out is the number of times they will kick you in the teeth.

Will you find some kind of therapy for yourself....? This is just too hard to walk alone. they will come back...but it may be quite a ways down the road...

dandylion

Now his alcoholism falls solely on their shoulders, you are no longer the buffer. They will have to deal with it head on and probably resent that.

But I think these young adults need to understand that we do have choses, we do have the right to be happy. And the sooner they accept that the better their lives will be.

I couldn't agree more with dandylion, stop calling them, stop being the one to always reach out.

From reading your posts, I cannot tell which side of the drinking you are on. . . but no mind.

This is a family disease. It doesn't get better by rejoining the sickness.

This **** can go on for generations. The healing must start with someone. You don't have to abandon the family to seek a better way. I don't see much of my family, but my healing. . . . is their healing. It's the family healing.

How is it their business that you left your husband? It's not like you abandoned them, they don't even live at home anymore if I read you correctly (and even if they were, at 26 that would be their own choice). What is it they dislike about the situation? I absolutely do not understand how they could be angry at you, and for what.

qtpi, I agree with the posters who suggest you step back a bit. You don't need this nasty feedback from them, especially as you have nothing to feel guilty about, so for your own peace of mind try to concentrate on building your own life.
They can maintain the rage as long as they feel you'll chase after them. Some time to themselves will give them space to think, and work a few things out.

Honestly, at their age their reaction seems immature and juvenile but I've no doubt they'll eventually come around. You know you left for good reasons, and you have the right to be happy. Your AH could be sober for the rest of his life but it won't take away the unhappy years.

Stand proud, and look after yourself.

Some young people are, unfortunately, very selfish. My late husband's children were adults already when we met. His wife had passed 2.5+ years before we met. Yet we always felt we had to walk on eggshells around them (son is an alcoholic and addict and the reason I joined this community). My stepdaughter, especially, ruled(s) the roost and has never been completely accepting of my role in her father's life even though her mother was no longer living.

I wish I had some brilliant advice, but I hope that you will live your life away from the chaos and abuse of your spouse. My hope for you is that your children will eventually realize that this world does not revolve around them. Love them, perhaps from a distance for a time, and hopefully they will come around.

after i got out of a relationship that was quite unhealthy i started feeling guilty-like i didnt do enough.
talking to a good friend, he said," ya know,tom, youre the only one responsable for your feelings, so youre the only one making you feel guilty."

Alanon, the real life version of this forum, (minus unsolicited advice) is an anonymous meeting because this sort of thing (nasty reactions from family) is part of the game.

This sort of disease affects the "group consciousness" almost as much as it does the alcoholic. The healing process is going to affect everyone and the disease doesn't like that. It will attack anything that tries to inhibit it's control.

Healing quietly is sometimes necessary before bolder moves can be made. Obviously, if every time you try to heal something results in hate you will need to be stronger.

I don't exactly promote that you give up on people that you love, but I also don't promote that you get pulled into the disease. The people here have experience. While we might not like how things are we gain a confidence that we do and did the best that we could. If nothing else, it gives us a serenity that helps us survive the madness.

Sandraxia- I was very surprised myself at their attitude. I thought they would understand. But both of them love their Dad very much- and because I made the decision to end the marriage- whereas he wants to stay married, they are angry at me. STBXAH is charming, intelligent, manipulative- a house devil, street angel sort- seems like he has it all together. Yes they did see the drunk times- but he was a successful at work, functioning alcoholic- who mistreated and neglected me. After a very serious episode of abuse in February, I insisted he be evaluated by a drug/ alcohol counselor who confirmed to me that he is an alcoholic . AH thought an apology and a promise to stop drinking was enough. NO rehab or AA though. Now what he is saying to the kids and everyone who will listen is I gave up drinking for her, I would go to counselling with her, she left me without telling me- woe is me. I want her back. So they want me to go back to him but I have explained about relapse- but the main thing is it is my life and I am not going back- . I am 62 years old- I put up with this for over 30 years and I am done.

Just calmly live your life--my bet is that the kiddos will come around.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert here but I do want to offer ((((Hugs)))).

It can't be easy to be blindsided like this, especially when you're only trying to get away from an abusive, escalating issue.

Do your kids know anything about addiction, really? I'm guessing not - and that they don't consider themselves impacted by all of this so the odds of them being receptive to al-anon or like-kind reading is probably a non-starter?

IF that's the case, you can only control what you can control, right? They are largely ignorant so they literally can't see your point of view, but you can lower your expectations of what you expect out of them in that way. They are old enough to seek out information on their own or not.

More will be revealed - he can't coast on this -----> "saying to the kids and everyone who will listen is I gave up drinking for her, I would go to counselling with her, she left me without telling me- woe is me. I want her back." .... forever.

Nod & smile & keep your chin up & detach, detach, detach. "I'm sorry you see it that way dear" & keep on keeping on...... we all know how progression works. The reality will start hitting all of them soon enough. :grouphug:

qtpi.....I am so glad to hear your resolve to protect yourself. That is so important--to value yourself.
You have been through enough pain. It is time for you to have some joy in your life.
we were put on this earth to thrive...not just exist.
I can not minimize how much your feelings are hurt by your children, though.
That is very real...and, frankly, will take time for you to stop feeling so raw.

Your kids still have a lot to learn about life.

qtpi-

I just want to say we are here. You don't have to go through this alone. I can sympathize with both sides. About 5 yrs ago, my parents went through a very rough patch. I almost lost it. I couldn't imagine my life without my parents together. I thought of holidays, my kids reactions, just every awful thing you can imagine. I was 35 years old!!! I didn't rely on them or live with them but it truly felt like my entire world was shattered. My Dad clearly was in the wrong but it surprised me that I had such strong feelings against my Mom. I wanted her to just stay and not make wave. I didn't want my life to change! They are working on it and are together but it really could have gone either way.

I am now in Al-Anon and hope to think I could handle something like this better now. My eyes have truly been opened to some of my own behavior and that of my parents. Things I have struggled with in my relationship with my mother, I can now clearly see how her issues with being an ACOA shaped her and then passed it onto me.

Bottom line, your kids will seek out recovery when they are ready just as you did. You yourself stated how many years you stayed in the marriage.....they will see it in their time. Stay strong and take care of YOURSELF now.

Hugs,
Jaeger

Well cutie pie, it is absolutely not your children's business to punish you for your own life choices concerning your relationship. If you want to leave because your ex is an alcoholic then leave. If you want to leave because he is growing hair on his ears or because you can't stand the way he uses the cutlery anymore, leave. You don't need a justification. If you don't feel good, loved and cherished in a relationship, you can leave anytime. Hell, you can even leave IF you are feeling good and loved. It is your choice and your choice alone. I would ask your kids how they would like it if you commented on their partners, and told them to leave or stay with Partner A, B or C. They would probably tell you to butt out. Surround yourself with friends who you can vent to, and forget your children's ungrateful asses for a while. As long as you personally are good to your children, you are doing everything right, and as a rational moral person with dignity you have an absolute right to your own way of happiness!

Thank you everyone for your thoughts- I am so tired tonight, Just exhausted emotionally. My son and I work at the same hospital and I actually walked by him tonight and there was no acknowledgement and I said nothing to him. Later I texted him and said I didn't say hello, because you have asked for "space" and I did what I thought you would have wanted but this was very very hard and painful for me. I haven't heard back and I guess I won't . My walking by him was not planned or deliberate on my part. I am just heartbroken. I think I Just have to leave them both alone. Now i am wondering again if I should have left. But I just can't go back. But again tonight- so many tears.

I'm sorry your kids are doing this to you. It's not right. They're adults. They should be acting like adults.

Qtpi, don't let this derail you. You left you're husband because of HIS actions, it has absolutely nothing to do with them. The problems you're having with them are separate issues and will need to be addressed separately. Getting back together with your husband wouldn't change the fact that your adult children, for whatever reason, have been less than supportive than they should be.

Please don't confuse the two issues. Going back won't solve anything. You're doing so well. You're children may like to think it would make things better, but they weren't in the marriage, They don't get a vote.

The next time you start getting confused please try and remember that. You were in it alone, and alone you had to make the decision to leave. Your children, God bless them, were not in the trenches with you, and therefore can not understand the full importance of the decision that you made. It was the right decision. So, surround yourself with supportive people that are going to help you move forward.

qtpi....I can only imagine how heartbroken you must feel. I feel pain, just reading about it.
That was really cruel...and I imagine that he has not a clue in this world how much he caused you to hurt. I'll bet if you could see the picture in his mind...his reality doesn't even resemble your reality.
A divorce can shake up everyone's world and sense of security for a while and it takes some time for each person to process it all.
My guess (and it is just an educated guess), is that since y ou are seen as the one who asked for the divorce...you are being "blamed" for shaking up their sense of security. They are thinking about themselves, right now...and your happiness--or not--is really not their primary focus. I seriously doubt that they are even able to think that far!
Like--it is the image of the "intact" family is what their angst is about.
Aside from that, even...the dynamics are very complex, I am sure of that much....

I really, really, suggest that you consider enlist a family therapist...for yourself. Such a person could help you to understand what is going on better than anyone else.
OOPs!...just as I am typing this, I seem to remember that you have a counselor that suggested that you reach out to the children......?
so, if I am confusing you...just disregard anything I am saying!

Another thought I am having, on your behalf, is that Adult Children of Alcoholics might be able to help you with what is going on with the kids...and how they are treating you. I don't know if you have any alcoholism in your parents or grandparents (to qualify you)..

My main concern is for you---you have suffered abuse, and now, rejection of the worst kind for a mother.
We, here at SR, will always be here and have your back, of course. I just think that you need more help and comfort than you are getting.

It would be soo wrong for you to become a martyr...just to satisfy the desires of other adults. You have hurt enough years to continue to hurt some more! It would not heal anything.
You are entitled to your happiness as much as anyone else.
The other three..the two kids and your husband...while they may not like what has taken place...they have to work it out for themselves. Yes, each person is important...But, they are not MORE important than you!!!!!

I think I have been rattling, a bit....but I submit this as food for your thoughts and consideration.

My heart truly goes out to you...

Sounds like they have learned from their father some pretty horrible (alcoholi style dysfunctional) ways to punish people when they don't do what they want.

Mother Teresa's*Anyway*Poem...

People are often unreasonable, illogical and self centered;
Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.
You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and your God;
It was never between you and them anyway.

That has to be tough when your son works at the same place you do.

Given that your paths apparently will inevitably cross, I think I'd do my best to smile and nod or say hello when you encounter each other. Passing him without speaking, and then sending a text to say you did it intentionally and why, comes off as a bit passive-aggressive, even if you didn't mean it that way. Keeping your distance and giving him space doesn't mean you have to pretend he doesn't exist. Just assume, for right now, that he won't reciprocate. That may change in the future.

Incidentally, I don't consider a simple acknowledgement to be "reaching out"--it's simply leaving the door open.

As long as you work in the same place, I'd try very hard to work on not letting his behavior get under your skin.

Hugs,

OH, Berrybean....those last two lines of your post to qtpi.....so, so, so powerful.
I had read them a few years ago...and brought me so much clarity for seemingly "impossible" situations of conflict.
But, I forgot about them....
Thank you very much for posting them!!

I am really sad today. All your words are helping me feel less alone. I am just trying to put one foot in front of the other. My daughter lives far away and I didn't see either of the kids more than once a week or even every two weeks. Like I said it's not like our lives were tied up in theirs. But I am thinking I am just going to have to let them go for awhile and not reach out. NOt sure if that is the right way. When I saw my son last night, I guess I was mortified- all those thoughts going through my head. About 6 weeks ago, I had seen him at work and said hello and he told my daughter about it- that I deliberately stopped by and that was f***ed up in his words. I said I had to go to his area as part of my job and she said to me that's not true- but it was true. I can't ask a coworker to go to his area if I need something- just in case he is working the same time. That's ridiculous. This whole thing s***s and I hate that word! I get different ideas from different people- my counselor says reach out every now and then. A friend says send a friendly text once a week- and on this forum the consensus seems to be - let them go- give them a wide berth. I compare it to years ago before I left AH, I would ask Alanon people- should I leave him? I don't know what to do. I don't know the right way or the wrong way. And I am fighting the guilt that I raised two successful, independent but self-centered, unkind, immature brats. I am really angry at them obviously. Maybe if I "ignore" them and not reach out, I will be able to work out my own feelings of anger, abandonment, sorrow and guilt, so the next time I see him, I can say, " Hello, B****," and smile and say, "Here to get a *****," and turn around and leave.

I'd just be absolutely neutral. Don't go out of your way to avoid them (though I'd end any conversations if they start being accusatory--don't defend or explain, just say, in as pleasant a tone as you can muster, "I'll talk to you when you're feeling better.")

If you have to go to his work area, go. If he sees you, say, "Hi," and that's it. Don't give a whole explanation why you are there. It isn't necessary and it puts you in the position of having to justify existing and working. Good lord. If he says, "Hi," in return, smile and don't take it as an invitation for a conversation. IOW, let them take the lead. All you're doing is keeping the door open, remember?

Qtpi, are you and your counselor working on any techniques to help with the stress and frustration that you're dealing with? Specifically as it relates to your children?

I did a quick google search and saw a few sites dealing with how to reduce resentment, anger, frustration, etc... I wonder if you wouldn't benefit from some sort of practiced, planned out way of dealing with this. It's not as though this situation is going to resolve itself overnight.