Why do we stay?
 

The other day, ladyscribbler said something that was a major AHA! for me. She said "Playing nice with this man is not going to cause him to suddenly become a reasonable and rational human being or have an epiphany about how poorly he is treating you and your child. Many of us here have tried to take the route of appeasement. Not one has met with success. "

Since I left in the fall, I've tried to play nice. STBXAH has been alternately remorseful and cruel.

I've been ignoring a lot of quacking by STBXAH since the other day, and really thinking. What I don't understand is this: I think I'm pretty smart and rational. If a friend was going through what I went through, it would be very clear to me that the friend should get out. So why did I stick around so long?

A lot of people on here come across to me as level-headed and logical. Why did we stay as long as we did? I'm sure most of us did not end it after the first drunken stupor. Is it like the frogs in the water, not knowing they're boiling until it's too late? Are we holding out for hope that will never come? Are we so damaged from our own upbringing that we think our dysfunction is normal? Do we think we don't deserve better?

And once we get out of it, how do we learn to live healthy and whole within ourselves? How do we learn to not choose the same type of person if we choose to be with someone else?

There is probably not one answer to these questions, if there are ANY answers at all. I am going to a therapist tomorrow, so maybe I can get some insight there.

I am genuinely interested in why you all think you stayed so long, or are still staying.

I stayed because I kept hoping things would change. I wanted to believe his promises that he would stop drinking and things would be better. I also stayed out of fear of being alone. My self esteem wasn't great before we married but was about as low as possible after years of verbal abuse. I thought if I left I would be single for the rest of my life. It took me years to realize how alone I was when I was with him and I'd rather be single than in that terrible marriage.

I can only speak from my own perspective. I grew up with very strong opinions surrounding separation and divorce, and so I was already biased against 'calling it quits.' Combine that with the fact that as we get older, we get introduced to a series of rules or guidelines to follow on how to handle turmoil in a relationship involving two rational individuals. My moral compass directs me to resolve the turmoil whenever remotely possible rather than jumping to separation or divorce, and so that is what I try to do.

The fundamental flaw with this plan is that if your partner is an addict, the rules of conflict resolution don't always apply and so I got stuck wondering why things weren't working out, because I was following the steps I was 'supposed to.' That got me in the mindset that I must not have tried hard enough, or I made a mistake somewhere, and I start wondering what it was that I did wrong. Insert the "walking on eggshells" feeling of never knowing when an argument will happen because I can't figure out what it is that I'm doing to set her off.

By being accountable to ourselves for standing behind our limits or boundaries without giving in to the expectations of others. By taking the time to really reflect on what you will and will not accept in your life and being aware of your surroundings. By removing negative influences from your life without apology. By giving ourselves the time and freedom to heal on our own, seeking emotional and/or spiritual fulfillment from within ourselves and not requiring it to come from someone else.

I stayed 34 years because I loved him. I always thought I could solve this. It was a rude awakening when I realized that alcoholism is progressive and it was out of my control. That's when I left.

That four letter word that was my downfall-not love , hope. Hoped he would stop, hoped he would get better and hoped he would see what HE was doing to his family.
I also stayed bc he had shattered my self esteem with verbal abuse and other abuse. Finally, I stayed bc I was terrified of leaving and my girls having to be around him without me there.

None of those are good reasons to stay-but they are some damn good reasons to leave.

Is it like the frogs in the water, not knowing they're boiling until it's too late? Are we holding out for hope that will never come? Are we so damaged from our own upbringing that we think our dysfunction is normal? Do we think we don't deserve better?

All of the above.

I loved him so very much, but also for me, it was (false) security - I had become a stay at home mom very early in our relationship (for his daughter, and then for our 3 sons), so he was the sole breadwinner. After we moved to FL, he had a really good job with a promising future (he was being groomed to be the owner of a multi-million dollar company), so for me the unhappiness was kind of a trade-off for security. I had NO idea that things would get so bad that he'd quit his job and throw away his future. I NEVER thought he'd cheat on me and abandon us. But he did.

And once we get out of it, how do we learn to live healthy and whole within ourselves? How do we learn to not choose the same type of person if we choose to be with someone else?

LOTS of internal work. I have an amazing therapist who I've been seeing weekly for over 3 years now. The first two years of therapy were mostly him helping me survive the various crises that were happening. Now that AH has been gone for a year, and I've come out of that final massive crisis mode of everything hitting the fan, him leaving, and the aftermath of all that, the real work on my healing from a literal lifetime of dysfunction has begun.

In my case I´m sure it was because I felt I didn´t deserve better - I probably still don´t.

Before becoming involved with xabf I spent many years single. My longtime partner and father of my kids left me for someone else and after that I only had a very unsatisfying and plain weird LD "relationship" with a former friend who was more into virtual interactions than seeing me in person. This was a serious blow to my self esteem, especially when I found out he had moved back to town and didn´t bother to tell me.

So anyway, when axbf showed up, with all his charm and declarations of undying love, introducing me immediately as his girlfriend to his friends and family, it was such a huge boost to my self esteem. On the other hand, I did notice that many things were off but I just figured this was the best I could aspire to. I even remember thinking that he did seem to drink a lot but that he would probably want to be with someone else (better than me) if he´d stop drinking.
I think I made myself useful to him (doing the dishes and errands, adapting to his needs, never ask for much back) because I thought that was the only way to keep the relationship going. And as time went on and he became abusive, my self esteem became even more damaged.

So yeah, I´m sure I had a big role in maintaining a dysfunctional situation. I really don´t know how to change all that. For now I´m just dealing with the hurt and anger. I don´t dare even thinking about embarking on something new, it seems safer to remain single for ever though it does make me sad.

I stayed so long because I wanted to. For a long time, my fear of the unknown was greater than my misery. And part of that unknown had to do with protecting our children once their dad and I split, a battle I'm still fighting 6 mos. after leaving.

Once I got away with friends for a few weeks, I was able to see the futility of trying to get someone to change who didn't (and doesn't) want to change. That distance and perspective allowed me to recognize that it was time to move on, despite my fears.

I've realized now that probably what played the biggest part in me staying was my lack of ability to put up boundaries, which was fostered by being raised by a very controlling and codependent mother (she was an ACOA, as was my father.) I was predisposed to codependency and the shame of leaving was too much for me to bear....until it finally wasn't.

Mine is great sober and was sober enough that I didn't really see it... If that makes sense. Yeah he'd get messed up but then there'd be weeks of fine afterwards... But when I look back there was a whole lot of time drunk or hungover. Sad really that I didn't see it all day to day.

And I'm still sort of hanging in there... Not really sure why.

I stayed because my outlook on relationships is sick.

I need to do the work on myself to change. It isn't about AH, I was attracted to him because of what was going on in me.

I hesitate to use this word but 'normal' people when meeting an alcoholic or addict or dysfunctional person spot it and move away. It was my dysfunction that has always drawn me to men which mentally healthier women would step away.

I have met well balanced, nice men. Of course I found them boring.

I stayed because I needed to, until I did not.

Looking back it is very clear to me that I was going to get myself into a relationship like the one I was in that got me here.

I don't say that to be fatalistic though it may come across that way.

I had some serious learning to do about co-dependent behaviors, my own self-worth and how to be in relationships (especially boundaries and self-care).

I had NOT learned those lessons with non-intimate relationships though I had had a number of opportunities. Sure some of it was the environment I grew up in that affected me, but man I sure ran with it.

Though incredibly painful to learn the lessons I took from this have been invaluable. I would not trade them for the world.

I am so grateful I was open to the learning......this is not a cycle I want to repeat in myself.

Finally I deeply believe that we are given options to heal our childhood from many of the choices we make as an adult. I think that is what my experience was about for me.

I stayed for two reasons. One, I thought I was doing the right thing for my children. Two, I come from a family who just don't divorce. No matter what. It's just not done.

While that sounds crazy, that is just the way it is. Eventually, I got enough help from the fine folks here at SR, through counseling, and through Celebrate Recovery to realize I deserve more, and namely, so do my children. While I cannot take away their pain, they are with me 95% of the time. During that time, I can make life as good as I possibly can for them.

Had I stayed with their father, we would all still be miserable.

There were a lot of reasons I stayed.

There were some good times. He had a lot of potential. I didn't want to leave 5 minutes before the miracle. I am stubborn A. F. He was hot and liked to fish. We clicked - in the beginning. And the root of all that seems to be coming down to

My need for perfection and control of my life and surroundings. My fear of failure. Me not realizing that I deserve much, much better.

Dang - that stressed me out to write! I thought I was so happy with him, for a while.

My current lifestyle is pretty peaceful. I run from drama - straight to the nearest river, rod in hand. I read - A LOT. I cook hot dogs on an open fire for dinner on Wednesdays. I ride my bike - solo and with other women riders. I date, but don't really call them back - there's just no room in my time unless they are nothing short of spectacular. I eat well and exercise. I run the dog at the park every day. I see and talk to my family, often. I am travelling, making new friends, and spending time with old ones. I will look back at this time in my life with such love and fondness.

It is very hard for me to see anything from my relationship with XABF except my flawed thinking. Hopefully this is enough to prevent the same disaster in the future. It's so weird to be proud of my own "selfishness." Something I used to think was so bad.

Firebolt....I love the peace you have found in your life.

I strive for this on a regular basis. Thank you for sharing.

Thank you all. I really appreciate your honesty, even though some of it could not be easy to lay out there. So much of what each of your wrote brought up some painful feelings for me since it hit very close to home.

You all have such incredible strength. Many thanks.

Basically I stayed far too long because I didn’t know any better and when we know better we do better. Today I celebrate 3 years of no contact and a happy calm life that I thoroughly enjoy!!!

I didn’t know anything about addiction.

I had no idea it was a lifelong disease and would always be a battle for him.

I had no idea it was a disease like no other and couldn't be compared to other diseases.

I didn’t know that with each relapse, he got worse and it was harder to recover.

I didn’t know that it was ok to love someone and not be present in their life.

I didn’t know that just because I loved him that I didn’t need to “feel” responsible for him.

I didn’t know that just because I loved him that I didn’t need to “feel” obligated to him and accept unacceptable behavior.

I didn’t realize it was ok for me to leave and not “feel” guilty about doing that.

And again, I didn’t know anything about addiction……………….

I read this post early this morning, and have been pondering it, trying to come up with the 'right' answer. Seems there isn't a right answer, and it made me ask a lot of questions of myself. But, here goes:

I did stay because I thought I could influence, coerce, shame, guilt, force, love her into quitting, or slowing down, or whatever I thought was needed. Through this forum I know that none of those will work.

I also stayed thinking that she would 'get it' and want to get better - for our son, if not for anything else. Sadly, the denial is way to strong to think she would even need help.

I also stayed because 'breaking up the family' seemed so, well, not right. I took my vows seriously (as did you all), and breaking those vows seemed like an insult to God. My son looooves her mother dearly, and the thought of having to remove him from that seemed devastating to him -her falling further into alcoholism could be more devastating. I stay out of fear that he would be alone with her at night, and she would drink and pass out, and there would no coherent parent should he wake up scared or sick.

I stay now because, though I'm more aware of the pitfalls of having a child live with an active A, I'm not yet ready to pull the trigger and leave/kick her out. I've changed my attitudes in how I deal with DS and try to be more loving/present with him - in order to show him who the stable parent is.

The love is pretty much gone, however - and that is sad. We co-exist, for the most part, but that's about it. To reference another thread -there is no intimacy, it been long gone.

Am I making the right choice(s) for me and DS? Maybe not, but they are the choices with which I'm comfortable, today. I did have an atty. consult, so I could make a move at any time. And when that time comes, I'm sure I'll know it.

I'm not afraid of being alone, or lonely - in fact, I would very much welcome the serenity and peace should she not be around.

I've always had an issues verbalizing my feelings, so it was hard to come up with this list, but I did, and it's giving me something to think about.

I think we all leave for different reasons. I too have been "staying" in the sense that I send him money every month and still have him on my health insurance. In fact, were still legally married. I am starting to get tired,pure and simple. I will eventually sever the last threads from pure exhaustion.

This is a really great thread--thanks for asking the questions, TFM, and thanks to all who have posted here.

For me, the reasons I didn't leave fall into a few different parts. It was a total of about 7 years from the time I knew he was drinking alcoholically to the time I asked him to move out (we had divorced about 6 months prior to his moving out; he was living in the upper unit of my house). During the first 4 years, I believed that he was going to AA meetings and had stopped drinking, b/c that is what I was seeing. I didn't understand the other changes that come w/recovery that should have been showing up and were NOT. I did nothing for my own recovery during this time, fooling myself that if only HE got sober, everything else would resolve itself.

After 4 years, I learned that he'd never stopped drinking at all or attended any AA meetings, was only pretending, and I finally came here and started to do Alanon, starting to work my own recovery. He began to actually go to AA meetings and claimed he was sober, but this turned out not to be true. I continued to not leave during this time b/c I simply couldn't believe this was how it was going to be. I absolutely could not accept that my "perfect" man was not going to see the error of his ways and all he stood to lose and come around! How could this happen? How could he not get it? I felt sure he'd eventually get sober.

And eventually, during the last 2 years, it was fear that kept me in the marriage. I really didn't have any hope any more that he was going to quit drinking or lying. I was just too afraid to be on my own--financial fear, fears about keeping up the house and land, handling maintenance, fear of having no one b/c I had allowed my world to grow so small I really had no friends any more. Fear about pretty much anything you can imagine.

And you know what else kept me there, maybe more than anything else? Memories. Memories of all the things he and I had done together or that he had done/made/built. We laid a pine floor in what is now my big bedroom. We drywalled the bathroom and he laid a lovely tile floor in there. He put in nice blinds in most rooms. We had years and years of snow shoveled or blown, grass mowed, gardens and flowers planted, weeds killed. We had dogs almost the entire time we were together and put in miles and miles walking the various dog combinations over the years. We'd worked at some of the same jobs in times past.

I think it was that, more than any other single thing, that kept me there. If you have memories w/someone, and they are the only other person that shares those memories, it feels like the memories cease to exist if you're the only one who knows about them now.

As far as how to live after the marriage or other relationship ends? For me, it's been similar to what others have said. I've learned how to do some of the maintenance around the place myself, and I've found some help for the things I can't do, like cleaning gutters on my 2-story house. This A) gets the work done and B) gives me confidence that I CAN handle those things. I've made an effort to get out among people, learn some new stuff, make some new friends. It's slow going, but thank heavens for SR and Alanon, I've learned that it's OK to take my time making friends and finding activities to do and groups to be in. I am reading a lot, exploring, learning, expanding, in so many areas, and I can feel changes taking place. Every time I feel I've moved ahead a little bit, it fuels me to continue working and continue moving ahead.

That first summer of 2013, when I had believed him about his sobriety and recovery and then found his liquor stash in July, I was crushed. I couldn't imagine how I would live. I felt angry, betrayed, frightened, confused, sad. It was an awful time. I would have never believed, 3 years ago, that I could feel as good as I do (most of the time) now, that I could have made the changes I've made, and that I would be looking forward to continued growth and new experiences, feeling (most of the time) that I'm going to be OK even if I don't know exactly what the future holds.

CentralOhioDad--
Your post brought tears of recognition to my eyes. It is so very hard when there is a child involved, and I also mourn your wife who can't recognize how her choices/addiction/illness are affecting her family and child. As a mom, that breaks my heart.

Your posting also reminded me of another factor that helped me to move on, something that I didn't know before joining SR and learning from folks here. I thought I was helping him by staying whereas, in fact, my staying was supporting his addicted status quo.

Since I left 6 months ago, he has been sober for more days and weeks than he had been in the last 20 years. I know, because he's using SoberLink to show me. Although I'm no longer invested in trying to control or change him, I do hope that after one of those sober weeks he will find the inner resources to commit to his recovery.

At first I stayed because I had no idea that alcohol was a problem at all - I knew my husband drank (as did I) but was completely unaware how much he'd taken to secret drinking. I was substantially underestimating his intake & the resulting impact. He was already progressing rapidly in his disease before I had a name/label/knowledge of it.

I also stayed because despite my ignorance to the progressing addiction, I was fully aware that in those couple of years leading up to that point we'd faced some BIG challenges - becoming parents, building a business & watching the recession devour it along with any financial stability we had left, losing my husband's uncle (who was his father figure) to cancer suddenly, etc. I thought that we'd taken a lot of blows in a short time & that we'd work through it together. His inability/resistance to doing that shocked me, as did his increasing ability to lie, manipulate & run away to hide. He was literally a different person than I had known all those 10+ years prior.

Somewhere around this point in the timeline, I stayed simply because I didn't have the confidence & fearlessness to leave. I was afraid to be alone, I was scared to become a single mom even while I acknowledged that I already WAS one. My FOO/ACoA history played a big part to staying at this point because it was the pattern of behavior I knew & was comfortable with.

I only really knew how to focus on & power through TODAY & didn't have the free time to think too far into the future. I was taking a lateral move in my career at the same time - helping a new business start from the ground up at the same time as I was learning a whole new industry. DD was in pre-k & preparing for KDG. I barely had time/energy each day for what I HAD to do so I just didn't have it in me to push beyond that & see the Bigger Picture.

Then one day I did see it - the whole, big, ugly Picture.... and I decided to get myself healthy before making any big decisions.

Then I stayed because MY recovery was strong enough to support what I needed for me & DD even while RAH struggled with it all still. The desire for recovery was there even when his efforts fell short. I was able to gain control in the ways that mattered over my life financially & otherwise by educating myself & implementing actions like healthy boundaries (vs. reactions), staying on my own side of the street, etc.

Now I stay because we are living a life of a recovery as a family & things are finally improving in a noticeable, lasting way. Finally we are experiencing truly changed behaviors (on all sides, I'm no angel in this) & are starting to build trust & respect again.

* I agree, SK. Great words, COD-i identified with all of them....it's very hard.

This, from FireSprite's post, was certainly a factor for me also. Since he was so incredibly freaking good at hiding his drinking (seriously, it took me a long, long time to be able to spot the tiny signs that meant he'd been at it, and even then, I was never absolutely sure), I really didn't have any idea of the scale of things. Ignorance, both about what was actually going on and about what it all meant, definitely played a big role.

I also had a lot of General Ignorance - that old way of thinking that if a person wasn't lost to drugs, homeless, mentally unstable, missing work, getting DUI's, etc - then they didn't even qualify as an alcoholic. I would have been hard-pressed to name a person in our lives that did NOT drink & of course, I grew up in the culture of drugs & alcohol so it didn't strike me as odd at ALL.

But for me, the real Game Changer was educating myself on Codependency. I had a lot of misinformation about drinking but absolutely ZERO information/education about everything else.

I stayed because....

I wouldn't give myself permission to leave. I wasn't a failure. I made my choices and I'll live with them. I had unconditional commitment.

I was very very conflicted about what was best for my children. I still felt like I was throwing them under the bus when I decided to leave but I was terrified for their future and I felt like I could not survive if I didn't - and I for sure knew they needed me - and a better version of me than what they were getting as I slipped under the water into the ocean of alcoholism my husband was swimming in.

If only I could try harder, or differently, or with more conviction, or with less resentment things would change and I'd get the life we promised each other. If only I could be better or different. Try harder. Let things go. Letting go is important but I was letting go of everything that I need in this life.

It was unimaginable to me that he wouldn't save himself in order to save us. I kept believing the words and ignoring the actions because I just couldn't accept that he wasn't choosing us. I do understand addiction and it was still a trap I was deeply tangled up in.

I have very rigid emotional boundaries in some ways and absolutely none in others. He is an alcoholic first but also quite codependent in different ways from me. We seemed like a perfect fit in the beginning but in was devastating for both of us.

I don't know what normal is and I don't feel like I was meant for it. When it comes down to it I think that if someone really knows me - they will figure out I'm just playing at life and they will eventually discover I'm a fraud and be disappointed or leave or laugh or find me unlovable or whatever. It's crazy and I thought I was over that but not so much I guess. :( Its a lonely and exhausting mental space to occupy and I didn't feel that way with him. I didn't keep me there in the end but it bonded us in the beginning.

But once I decided to leave there was no going back. No more love, not more respect, no more attraction. A lot of pity which I confused with love for awhile. A difficult and painful separation of emotional enmeshment. But I was done. There was no question about that.

I stayed because I was naive. I didn't know anything about alcoholism, I had never been exposed to that. Or rather, i I had only been exposed to A's that had been in recovery for over 20 years.

I stayed because of hope, of the potential I saw in him.

I stayed because I thought i could fix him

Lots of stuff rings true to me but this is definitely part of it for me too. Periods of sobriety are long enough that I "forget" about the selfish, drunken spending. This time it's spending plus he quit his job...but it's okay! He got a credit card and withdrew his retirement to make it over the hump. *sarcasm*

He also has an 8-year-old son that he has primary custody of. We've been together since he was an infant. That little boy is my heart and it makes me so sad to think I'd have to see him less.

AND...I hate this part...I want to know WHY. I feel sometimes like I'm hanging on trying to find a reason that he wants to upend everything and lose things and make bad decisions.

Thanks to everyone for posting.

I stayed because I didn't love myself enough to leave...all the abuse from him and his family. I kept trying to make life better for him, so he wouldn't have to abuse, and I lost sight of me and my life and more importantly, my children. Hard pill to swallow.

The first reason why I have stayed was financial. Fear of not having enough money to live. I grew up poor and living alone on disability terrifies me. If I am truly honest though I think another big reason has been hope. Hope that things will change and the life I always wanted would happen. Hope that all the promises of sobriety that I have heard so many times after some horrible binge would come true. Maybe it's also because I didn't love myself enough to walk away. Thinking for me there is no ONE answer but several.