he dumped the vodka
 

Well he dumped the vodka today. Not sure how much of it he ingested. He was in bad shape when I arrived to visit. He has a therapy session tomorrow, Monday (court-ordered), and he's worried he's going to appear drunk and be taken directly to jail. This is a possibility, but it's not likely. But he chose to dump the vodka. Im liking that.
He told me his mom laid into him today and said "rehab or you're out." He has to figure a way to go to rehab without violating his probation. He has a place in mind that he would like to go. I told him (again) that I'd quit everything with him. Tomorrow is a big day. I just hope he doesnt make it through and then "celebrate." Im glad his mom said what she said. He's realizing that his comfortable life isnt forever.
So at this time, things are progressing, slowly. I just hope we keep moving forward.
I'm not stressed though, which makes this doable. I have s**t to do and he needs to stop choosing to drink and choosing to not get help. So this withdrawal is not my issue. I feel capable and better equipped to be strong. I really hope he can figure out how to go to rehab now instead of in Feb when he completes his probation requirements. His therapist may be able to clarify how it might work, tomorrow at his appt. But this was a good day :)

That's a great step in the right direction, if nothing else, it sounds like he's accepting he has a problem. And it also sounds like you're doing a great job of leaving him to get himself sorted out.

Well done.

waggin....good for you in backing off from the situation. No use for you to torture yourself over something that you have absolutely no real control over.

dandylion

Just be careful. My A used to make a show of dumping alcohol before court, but immediately afterward, he was drinking from the stress of the hearing. Apparently.

It's good that you and his mom are setting boundaries that are keeping him from living a cushy life while in addiction.

so basically he drank today? correct?

I am sorry, but nada, nothing, zero has changed.

and I'm not much of a gambler, but I bet he will drink again tomorrow after his appointment. or the day after for sure.

Addiction doesn't and cannot just evaporate. Even if Mom says enough. NO MORE.

Honey, do you know the actual percentage of people who successfully recover? It's a very low percentage. Going to rehab is not a guarantee. Thinking it's best to keep the focus on yourself for now, he has a lot of work to do if he truly wants to recover, and sorry to say, that will not leave much room for any relationship. Not being cruel, just sharing facts.

My intent is not to be harsh, but waggin you are playing with fire here, and from someone who has boarded the crazy train more times than I care to remember, it burns every effin time.

Still on a smartphone. Advance apology for errors
I was over at his (parent's) house today. His mom called him around 4pm on her way home. I could hear her through his phone. She said something like, "just want to remind you you have to be out by 5 today." He acted like he didnt understand why she was doing this and what has triggered this. She rightfully so, expressed frustration that he's been laying in their spare bedroom for a month and has done little to no work. He has no plan and is pretty much not into discussing one. I cant imagine her frustration. I mean I kind of can, but no. It's been years for her. And it's her son. He was her baby at one time and his fall must be so heartbreaking, definitely to the point of numbness.
So he asks her why thus is happening, what triggered it. He knows. She said that it's bc he's hiding out in their room for days not doing anything. He stated he just does that so he's not in their space. I asked what he was going to do. He said he's going to wait on doing anything. Actually admitted that he'd "weaseled past it. He totally did. It's obvious why she's kicking you out. It's EVERYTHING. So I gathered my things and said I was going to go. He didnt want me to. I explained that i dont like to be in the middle of such big family issues. And i said i feel like he's using me as a buffer to keep his mom off his back and that stresses me out. So i continued to leave. By then his mom arrived home. She was totally pleasant. He was up and at em to see what he could do to appease her. They were going to decorate their tree. By the time I got home, he was cleaning out/organizing his stuff crammed into their garage. Im glad he's moving around. But his attitude still sucks. I don't like how he views his mom. After their phone conversation, he commented that she's crazy. I reminded him that she cleaned out his 2 puke buckets and totally cleaned the bedroom he detoxed in a couple of weeks ago. Not pretty and I wonder how many times she's done that for him :( He also phoned in sick to his court-ordered therapy today.
So one good day, one less good day. I wont call it bad bc my doggy and I had an awesome time at the beach :D

I hear you Marie. I'll hang around but only if he goes to rehab.Even then, I realize that IF he commits to being sober, there will likely not be any room for this relationship. He has so much work to do. I feel pretty hopeless for him right now.
It's crazy how much of his own world he lives in.

So can you tell me again, why you are choosing to stay in contact wiith this guy?

Last time we talked you were going to go no contact with him, was wondering what made you change your mind?

and you are correct when you say it very uncomfortable to be in the middle of such big family issues. So why do you expose yourself to that?

I have to ask, what are you thinking? And why do you feel hopeless for an adult man who is not taking care of business and addressing his own needs? and now he calls off a court ordered therapy session. He may just find himself in something we call consequences on that issue.

I'm worried for you, you are not taking care of you, you are hanging around to see what happens? What kind of life is that for you ? Pretty sure 75% of us here have an idea of how this is going to turn out, but............... everyone gets to choose their own path, from the bottom of my heart, choose smart, choose with your head, and not your heart and emotions.

I get drawn in when he talks about rehab. When im with him, it's harder to disconnect. I can disconnect from the alcoholism but not him. By that I mean, he pukes, I just keep watching tv. He slugs vodka, I go home. When he cries and talks about going to rehab and tells me he loves me, i turn soft. Not awesome. But I'm way better off than where I was a couple weeks ago. And the more I read and the more time I spend on here, the better.

Stop listening and start watching. He can tell you all day, every day about going to rehab, but when does it actually HAPPEN? So far he's lobbed excuse after excuse at you to appease you and to get the monkey off his back. He hasn't DONE anything to make any of those words matter.

So do you want to take over cleaning up the puke buckets, paying for everything, and having him call you "crazy" when you get tired of doing it after a few years?

Go back to NC and step away.
This guy is headed for a really major crash and it sounds like his parents are about done.
Guess who he will be asking to rescue him next?

Surely you see this coming?

waggin....I really do get how you FEEL...get sucked back in, etc. I really do. It takes a while to break away from the bonding that occurs in intimate relationships---whether that relationship is healthy or toxic--the feelings of attachment are the same.

Soooo, in light of this....I think it is much better to put your BRAIN in charge of your life for the next period of time. It is not safe to trust your HEART! You are still too vulnerable to let your heart direct things...LOL!

It sounds, to me, that you are getting it at an intellectual level. Good. Just keep that brain in command.

If you can do this long enough ....I think you will be just fine....

dandylion

Sweetie, you sound as addicted to him as he is to the alcohol - by addiction, meaning something that you know is very bad for you, but you still find justifications/reasons/excuses for doing it.

If alcoholics want to recover, generally abstinence plus emotional/spiritual support seems to work. In your case, abstinence = no contact. Sometimes if we walk away from a destructive relationship we'll get withdrawal symptoms which are as distressing as withdrawal from a drug; but if you want to recover, detaching from him is as important for you as rehab is for him.

It can be the most agonising thing to do, and maybe it's a step you're not ready to take - but rest assured that if you need emotional support when you let go of him and start taking care of YOU, there'll be plenty of support on here.

(((HUGS)))

what could possibly attract you to this guy???? let's see....

he lives at home, free loading, doing NOTHING, disrespects his parents, and calls his mother crazy.

nice.

he has his own puke buckets, which he allowed his MOTHER to clean up for him.

real nice.

he has absolutely NO plans, no drive, no iniative.

he phoned in SICK to a court ordered counseling appointment because he was sick and HUNGOVER.

he was drinking vodka YESTERDAY. you will actually sit there and watch TV while he hurls his guts up.

special.

don't get it. it's actually kinda.....yucky.

This....100%

He is manipulating his mom and he is manipulating you. It will be easier not to be reeled in when you don't have any contact. HIS family issues are with HIS family. You deserve more. So does his mom, but that is up to her.

thinking enough talk about the alcoholic BF, we all have a very clear picture of life with an alkie,

this sight is for you, waggin.

What needs to happen for you to step back, focus, and take your life back?

I don't know how old you are but you sound rather young, what about your hopes, dreams, aspirations? Do you want to talk about that for a bit?

People, From what you have all said, that would have cost 150.00 at the Therapist office.

You are all right!! Not seeing what there is to love about this addict. W- listen to these wise, wise people. They know, they have been there, they have tried everything also. It doesnt work.

If you leave and he gets sober, good for you!!
If you leave and he doesnt get sober, good for you!!!

NC does work when you work it. Take your time, but if you think things will change, it won't, just more of the same stuff.

(((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))

I appreciate the help.
No Marie, I'm not young... unfortunately. Not old either. 35. I just wanted to be able to vent about what goes on in my life lately. And perhaps I must sound like a f***ing idiot. Ive had NO ONE to talk to bc i only moved here a year ago from the Midwest. I dont chat with my girlfriends about this bc, I guess the physical distance between us has created emotional distance as well. So I dont talk about this with them. I bounce stuff off a couple of coworkers. Im getting closer with them. They know a brief version of my issues. I just wanted people to hear me and I just wanted to feel like I'm not alone.
Anvil: He's a good person but he's messed up. And yeah it gets gross. I get it.
Yes Rosales. That analogy is a really good one. Like I said, I dont have friends here so, ive created too small a world. So I've relied on solely him as my company. Not good. Im hanging more with my coworkers lately though. So that's a start!
I appreciate the perspectives, they help me. Just could some of you keep it in mind that this isnt easy. I wish I could just walk away 100% forever. But it's taking some time for me to get there. It's as if I should just know, and now. So please ease up with the "Do it. What's the problem? NEXT!" Jesus christ.
On a positive note, I'm going to wrap gifts and watch cartoons. Yes, some 35 year old women watch cartoons.

Duplicate

Oh honey, you're not stupid. You've been duped, and so have most of the rest of us. If you hang around long enough, you'll realize that we come from all walks of life. These diseases don't discriminate. Having good breeding doesn't make anyone immune to falling for an addict. We have doctors, lawyers, nurses, social workers, college students, stay-at-home moms, unemployed men and women, and everything in between here. Some are even lucky enough to be double winners (alcoholics and have a relationship with an addict/alcoholic). There's no "type" when it comes to addiction or codependency. Really. In that respect, you're just like everyone else here. We get it. No matter what you're going through, someone here has walked in those shoes and understands where you're coming from. Don't be afraid to post here. Sometimes our feedback can seem a little blunt, but that's because we've got the collective experience to be able to know how any given situation is likely to end. We will hold your hand, but we aren't going to sugarcoat anything. In time you'll find that we are all here to help, and some things you may not understand now will start to make sense.

waggin, I know it's easy to feel attacked here sometimes, and to feel pressured or like folks don't understand. I felt that myself at times, mostly when I was new. But you know what? Usually the posts that I found the hardest to read were the ones that turned out to be the most helpful as time went on.

This bunch doesn't sugar coat things, that's for sure. This thread might help w/understanding why that is: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-they-do.html

Wishing you strength and clarity.

I think everyone who see's their partner a mess and comes here knows that things will not magically turn around. We know we have to just walk away. We already know all of this, and we beat ourselves up b/c we just can't seem to do it! I think she gets how it is "going to be."= progressive disease. I am really sorry if this post upsets anyone in this thread. I am sincere in what I am about to share.

Although we have collective experience in this disease and see how a majority of things turn out statistically, we cannot make hypothesized guesses about someone else's recovery and whether they will or won't get sober. An addict can manipulate today, and tomorrow hit rock bottom and start recovery. We are not the Higher Power in control and we cannot forecast when someone's rock bottom is coming based on how they are acting today. The only thing we can hang our hats on at the end of the day (and it is not "likely" it is a fact) is that it will get worse and death will come.
My therapist who has studied alcoholism for 40+ years corrects me when I tell her how "likely things are" to end a certain way. It is tempting to think I really can tell how it will turn out based on all the things this disease flings in your face everyday (manipulation, emotional abuse, etc.). But when she says this to me, I cannot argue there b/c she has a point. And 40+ years of experience. lol.

1. If all of this was so easy to do, we all wouldn't be here right now.. still visiting this forum. I think it is safe to say that whether we are still with the alcoholic or left, having even been through this experience we all share 1 thing- the knowledge of how difficult this can be to detach from the drinker and their alcoholism. We all have that in common. We also know it does not happen over night. (It didn't for me.) If it has for anyone here, I applaud you and then in that case you probably don't need to come here and post b/c you licked it and moved forward pronto!

2. Not being pregnant, this is a very difficult thing to do.. Pregnancy? Hormones? Adding that to where she is at is very difficult. I know. I was there. I won't go into detail but being the partner and having to play commando over your brain in situations where you love someone who is putting on the guilt and then killing themselves is hard enough. Now add that you are a woman and have pregnancy hormones raging through you and that is enough to make you crack and go back to that person hoping for anything. give her a break.

3. We come here, and attend Al-anon for the very reason that others, like ourselves know the "pain of living with Alcoholism" and can understand why we are where we are. We come here so that we have a safe place to 'be'. To be stuck when we know we should just dump them and move on. To be sad when we wish we could just say, "F this no more!" To be human and say, " I know I left him but I still miss the Sh*t out of that drunk bum and why can't I just forget him." We come here to be human. We know where we "should be," but sitting there beating ourselves up over where we should be, is not getting us there TODAY. Accepting where we are in our detachment, whether it is a lot or none at all, is the first step in actually furthering our recovery. Acceptance.

We all have probably made the mistake in the beginning of going to those who don't get this disease, and they ask these very same questions to the point where we feel badgered, "why do you love this person?" "what are you doing" "who would do that". How many of those friends helped you cut the alcoholic loose the first time? How many of those friends did you cut off asap when you were addicted to the alcoholic? That is why al anon helps. We can start recovery, and not have to leave the alcoholic today. Leaving or staying is our choice and both are okay if that is what we can handle for today, and working a program meanwhile allows us to trust that changes are taking place.

"What is it exactly that you love about this person?" "What is there to love?"
We know this disease has its own ugly personality, and understand it is possible to actually love someone but not their disease!! Love the person not the action. When someone else is in the same spot as we were, it is not our job to decide whether or not their love for that person is warranted, or whether there is real love to be had there...it is to offer support that we have been there too and understand the concept of 'loving someone but not their disease' and how that leads to being stuck with someone who behaves like a bum or a jerk or a liar.

Sometimes our bitterness at our own alcoholic experiences causes us to lose sensitivity to others and just deliver the news, we've all been there I think. Or the frustration we feel watching someone torture themselves like this causes us to shame them..."what are you thinking?" None of these things help a partner leave. Especially shaming, which is why we find it safe to come here and to al-anon, where others are understanding due to the fact that they made many of those same mistakes.

The real issue I am getting at here is that this is not about "WHY" is this person going back. We know why-- we did it!! But about what can be done to ultimately lead her to leave. Getting into Al-Anon, getting with an addiction's specialist, working on recovery and not focusing on why it is not happening right NOW but what she can do so that it will eventually happen. I was not able to just jump into that state of mind the 1st time, I was really hurting inside, confused, and a mess. (I needed a program to work on myself while I broke up and went back, believed it all, got dooped again, and then realized all the work I had done in alanon & in therapy was starting to help me understand the disease and distance myself from it. ) It takes a long time to get into this hole with the alcoholic and it takes a long time to get out! I'll say it right now, I broke up with ex abf and I just made a post about how I miss him terribly!! I WISH HE WOULD STOP DRINKING RIGHT NOW! LOL. I still think about him all the time! Why am I contradicting myself if I chose to leave him? Well, I guess I am human...and this was hard! and I belong in Al-anon. :) I accept where I am today, and wow I don't remember when & where something changed exactly, I guess it just has been changing.. and I am recovering....

Waggin, you are a smart woman. You know it isn't going to be the life you want if he does not get sober. But you are hoping he will get sober. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. We cannot guess based on what he is doing. Maybe tomorrow he will have a drastic accident and hit bottom, or just have no bottom and keep on. But meanwhile, his disease will ravage your health and mental stability over time if you don't have a recovery program to give you strength. You have to find peace within yourself whether he is drinking or not, and recovery from being so attached to his alcoholism. This is where Al anon helps.

If for today you want to be with him, then do what you can for today don't feel discouraged about that.. You made a big step coming here for help. Are you going to start attending al anon meetings or have you? Maybe you can get a sponsor there to call when you are feeling weak and down? Also an addiction's therapist if you can(I know they are costly.) Going to the meetings and letting the program "wash on over you" as they say will really help keep your stress levels down so you and the little one can be well! That is most important right now, your health and the pregnancy and if you keep at it you will eventually have the strength to do what you need to do.

From Al-Anon's Courage to Change:
"We are often reminded to keep coming back. Today I will remember that this not only applies to meetings, but to learning the new attitudes and behavior that are the long term benefits of Al Anon recovery. I may not see the results today, but I can trust that I am making progress."

A stonecutter may strike a rock ninety-nine times with no apparent effect, not even a crack on the surface. Yet with the hundredth blow, the rock splits in two. It was not the final blow that did the trick, but all that had gone before.

The same is true of Al-Anon recovery. Perhaps I am working on accepting that alcoholism is a disease, or learning to detach, or struggling with self-pity. I may pursue a goal for months without obvious results and become convinced that I am wasting my time. But if I continue going to meetings, sharing about my struggle, taking it one day at a time, and being patient with myself, I may awaken to find that I have changed, seemingly overnight. Suddenly, I have the acceptance, detachment, or serenity I have been seeking. The results may have revealed themselves abruptly, but I know that all those months of faith and hard work made the changes possible.

waggin.....a sentiment that you will hear around this board is "Take what works and leave the rest". This is a public forum....made up of people with many different styles of communicating. That is just the nature of the thing. Many different strokes for many different folks....

What is the most important of all is what is helpful and what works for YOU. That is the part that you have to decide. Take what works and tune out the rest. Take what you need and ignore the rest. take what helps and screen out the rest. LOL!...I know you get the idea.....

One thing that was said to me once....and, I still try to remember it at the times when I feel that I get ineffective or frivolous or just plain stupid advice...."Consider every idea a "potentially good" one for at least one full hour. Then, either keep it or throw it away.
(this takes the conflict and sting out of the situation)
I felt that this allows me to keep an open mind--yet, still keeps me in charge of my own decision making.

That is my two cents.

Waggin...you ARE going to work your way through this!

dandylion

Wow thanks guys.
Just to clarify, im not pregnant, thank goodness! But I know there are a few women on SR who are pregnant and stuck in a similar situation. I cant imagine how difficult that must be. But thankfully that is one massive thing I don't have on my plate. But I appreciate all that youve said very much.
I have located alanon meetings in my area. Monday morning there's a beginner's meeting. Im excited to go. There are also a bunch of meetings near where he lives, if I ever just need to get out to a meeting if things get rough. Ive also been journaling a little since the beginning of the month. Im getting in the habit again and it has given me a grip.
Merry christmas, everyone :)

Waggin....I have a confession: As I was reading that post---I was laughing my ring off! I was thinking: Just wait until waggin reads this and receives the news that she is now pregnant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

***I have a twisted sense of humor. please forgive me.

dandylion

Waggin....I have a confession: As I was reading that post---I was laughing my ring off! I was thinking: Just wait until waggin reads this and receives the news that she is now pregnant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

***I have a twisted sense of humor. please forgive me.

dandylion

Hahaha! Sorry I got that wrong. My mistake:-) just wanted to let you know! Lol. Well erase that part.:-) was reading and thought it was the same person from a similar aituation// either way still applies what I said. Lols:) I agree with dandylion that it is made up of many different opinions and that u take what u like and leave the rest. So many different styles we can benefit from everything if we open our minds.

Take what you like- consider the true message under all of it- but also from our side we need to help eachother be honest with ourselves too. Doing this helps us who have lived through it avoid the pitfalls of shaming another in need. Afterall, we have gained nothing from these experiences of standing where she stood if we cannot offer help and support without causing her to feel embarassed or defensive over the decisions she is making. This is hard stuff. I believe part of our *real* recovery is not only getting through what we did and acceptance for ourselves, but for where others are at in their recovery and accepting that. Even if they are not where we think they should be. That is not our business and we are all guilty of forgetting that. If we are truly doing all this in a spirit of faith to help others then we'll be grateful for these moments where we can recalibrate ourselves.


The threads i always went back to re read were the ones where the ones where people made me feel like I didnt have to do anything right now or there was something wrong with me. But they also expressed the danger in which it was headed.

Merry Christmas!!

Dandy: my sense of humor is totally sick and twisted. Not to worry! :)

Bird: That is totally what im trying to do with him- just see where he's at and accepting it. Im not bending over backwards anymore. He knows what needs to change. And that is totally up to him. I won't be cleaning any buckets or tending to him when he makes himself sick. Im still his girlfriend but I live at my own apartment and I have to work and sleep at night. So... "call me when you feel better!" Ya know?
He will either find an apartment or his parents will kick him out. Soon he won't have anyone to help him when he's sick. Im a little anxious to see what happens, but not preoccupied. I'm really pulling for him. Obviously. But he's aware I have my limits and that it's been hard. I believe he is truly disgusted with himself. And that's been a huge part of his problem. He needs humility but he also needs confidence. I think the humility is close. He needs time well spent for the confidence. I absolutely need that as well.
So the changes ive made in my thinking and my attitude have helped me tremendously. And I wouldnt have felt this relief if I hadnt gotten to hear from everybody here. I am so grateful. And im not done figuring things out :D Things could change, as they often do!
I want to add that I still realize that our relationship has a slim chance of surviving. But I also know that some do. Im just setting boundaries and taking a leap of faith that he'll find the strength to do this before it starts really killing him.

Self-loathing is one of the many things that drives the alcoholic train. He certainly isn't unique in that aspect, and unfortunately that usually isn't enough to send them into recovery. They drink because they hate themselves and then hate themselves because they drink, and the cycle continues. That's why shaming is totally unproductive - they look down on themselves enough that they don't really need anyone's help at it. It's another pain to numb with the drink.

Anyway, just keep in mind that his recovery needs to be his #1 priority and that you'll likely take a back seat for a while if he gets serious about it. Many people come here hurt and upset that they aren't the center of the newly sober alcoholic's world, and it takes a while to get it through that they simply cannot be the main focus, and that the A needs to have tunnel vision on sobriety in the early stages. I hope he really gets better for himself and that you can at least maintain a close friendship, if nothing else.