Am I hanging on too hard or just being hopeful?
 

Rough night with separate AH. I let him stay this week at our house while the kids and I were away. Also last weekend as well when we were away. This way he could take care of pets, snow removal, mail, etc. Didn't figure there was any harm since he still pays the bills for the house. I let him have the choice of staying. I had other people lined up to take care of things if he didn't stay here.

Today he was supposed to be at the house when we got back. haven't seen the kids in a week and they were very excited to see him. Got a text when we were almost home saying he was heading back to where he is staying. Not that big of a surprise since I knew that seeing us and later leaving would be hard on him. It has been a trigger for his drinking in the past.

He called later. Said he went to a meeting b/c he needed to. I told him "good." I felt he was putting his program/sobriety first. Then he went on about how hard it was not being home with us, that I was never going to trust him, only stay with him so he pays the bills, only lets him see the kids 1x a week (not true at all) etc. He doesn't see why I won't let him come home. Says that he would not hurt the kids.

I told him that before I would consider him coming back to live with us that he needs to work on and maintain his sobriety and that I need to be able to trust him. (we started marriage counseling last wk as well.) he says his fellow AA members tell him that I will never be able to trust him again. I think I could. It has been broken before, yrs ago, and it took a good yr for me to trust him again. So hopeful I could trust him again.

He just went on and on with the Woe is me attitude and crying. Finally I could see that nothing I was saying was getting through to him and I had to get the kids to bed. I asked him what he has been taught in therapy and rehab when feeling this way. His response was that he needs to call someone and I asked him to do so. I ended the conversation saying I love u. I hated hanging up b/c he is alone where he is staying. He called back a little later to say that he had seen a spider in the bed last night and that he tried to call people but got no answers.

So here's the thing-after all these months I am still hopeful that he will get sober/find recovery/work his program, me work mine, get couple's counseling and that we will be able to live together as a family with the kids. Is being hopeful causing me to hang on to him too hard and not being willing to let him go completely (ie divorce.) Would getting a divorce be cutting that final thread to let him fall to the bottom? I know there is no way of knowing what his rock bottom is so a divorce may not be his rock bottom. I also know that what ever decision I make, I have to be ready to live with the outcome. Just not ready to get off the merry go round I guess.

he LEFT before you and his CHILDREN got home, after staying IN your house for a week. he misses you guys SOOOOO much that he can't BE there when you arrive.

just for me, that pretty says all I need to know.

says it is too hard. But my thought is if he wanted to see us, he had the chance, so he can't say I don't let him see the kids. We originally talked yesterday about getting pizza for all of us when he got back.

He Did the same thing last weekend when I got back- left before I got home. Kids were at my in laws so the fool I am thought we could spend time together and go get them together to bring them home.

I keep reminding myself to focus on action, not words. Sometimes I think I am just being a fool, not hopeful.

KidsR#1....It sounds to me that his goal is to get back into the house---to return to the former status quo. What was the understanding between you two when you separated?
Did you formulate any boundaries for yourself?

Your post doesn't give any information about his sobriety or whether he is actually working a program.

Be careful of listening to what he says that AA members have said about your relationship---alcoholics are known to put quite a spin on what other people supposedly say.

You do sound very uncertain as to what you want and where your boundaries are except for staying in the relationship. Maybe that is where you should focus more of your efforts---on yourself....as to how you feel and what you want and need.

Just some of my impressions as I was reading your post.....

dandylon

I truly believe that most people eventually do what is best for them. These changes and these decisions do not happen overnight and we all have to make our own journey to get there. Change is not easy.

One thing I notice about my RAH was that before he was in recovery he'd always put his feelings first. So he would be one to leave because it was 'too hard' on him.

After some treatment and now in recovery he'll do things that are hard on him because he knows it's important to me or the kids....so he'd stay, and face the feelings of having to leave, because he knew it was important that the kids get to see him.

I'd sit with it and see what his actions reveal...

dandylion- He says he is working a program. In his eyes, going to AA meetings for the last 16 days, having some counseling is working a program. His goal is definitely to get back in the house. Staying here when we are gone reminds him how nice and comfortable it is here. He hates where he lives (but in my eyes has done nothing to change that, like get a place closer to work that has heat that is not so far away from work. I know of people that he could ask and would probably let him stay with them with little to no rent. But that is up to him I feel- to change his living arrangements.)

There really was no separation agreement. I kicked him out after a binge back in August where he came home drink while I was watching other kids in my care (I do informal day care in my home.) Told him to go work on himself and that I needed time and space to do the self for me and the kids. Never put conditions on how often or how long he can visit. I just need to be here or my in laws when he visits.

After 3 months of being separated I gave him the opportunity to watch DS while I took DD to a party. When I got back he was obviously drunk. He had been drinking while watching our 4 yr old and I was MAD!! He blamed his drinking on me of course b/c I was not letting him see his kids.

I guess more will be revealed in time. When I talk to his close friend about all this he asks me if AH wants to move home b/c it is convenient. That probably is his motivation at this point of wanting to be here- because it is easy.

kidsR#1......I agree with you. It doesn't sound like he has made the connection between his alcoholism and the havoc it has brought. Not, yet...LOL!
16 days of AA is a start, of course....but is not enough to bring recovering. A person has to work a program with intensity--as a number one priority in their life. It takes a lot of determination, on his part.
If he goes to AA long enough...AND OPENS HIS EARS....they will inform him of just what working a program entails. Other alcoholics are the best people to get through to another alcoholic. Of course, many people can sit in an AA meeting---especially if they are doing it to satisfy someone else or get them off their back--and not really let it soak in. Like it is said: "Just sitting in a garage doesn't make you a car".

Here is the thing---you can't do much about what he is doing. You can only hold up your side of things. You have to draw the boundaries for yourself. You have to decide what you want--what you will put up with---what you want and need your life to look like. Your happiness is in your own hands.
Above all---do NOT expect him to agree with anything that you say or do. Do NOT expect that he will co-operate. He will, most likely will throw sh*t loads of blame and accusations your way. He may play the victim and push your guilt buttons until you give in. Or he may get angry and revengeful if the victim, sad role doesn't work.
Remember that his is still operating with the alcoholic brain and the alcoholic THINKING. He sees the world through that filter. He always will..until he gets enough recovery to change his thinking...which will change his attitude...which will, ultimately, change his actions. This takes a while, though....And, he will only do it when he decides that he wants his life to change. That is all on his side o f the street.

I recommend that you worry about your side of the street. He will do what he is going to do....the real question is always..."what are YOU going to do?"

dandylion

His leaving both times without seeing the kids reeks of manipulation to me.

In my humble opinion, he might need a different meeting. Those folks have no business telling him that you will never trust him again.

My sister in law and I were discussing the fact that some relationships are not good for the people in them. I don't know if this is true in your case or not.

I am glad he is working a program and trying. All the best and prayers to you folks.

I agree, manipulation. The merry go round will continue to spin until you choose to step off. Only you can decide when that should be.

In my humble opinion I doubt this was really ever said to him at all. More manipulation to move back into the house and put KidsR#1 on the defense to prove otherwise.

As they have been through bouts of distrust before and overcome he is well aware Kids has the ability to work through issues.

Am I the only one who thinks he left because he was drinking?

I mean, calls back crying, not making much sense. Talking in circles, belaboring a point.

Then what was the thing about the spider? That's totally something I would have fixated on when drunk.

It might be easier for all of you if you don't have him housesit for you. You could choose to draw a stronger line between his life and yours until such a time as he has established sobriety and recovery.

biminiblue.....

Poor Mr. Muffett---sat on a tuffett.....
Along came a spider......

Sorry, guys.....

dandylion

I mean, it's a spider. Who needs to call someone to talk about a spider? And oh no, no one answered!


I guess I'm tougher than I thought. Even when drinking I didn't have to call someone if there was a spider.

I thought this too, first thing that came to my mind.

the spider thing is just him grasping at straws. He is very good at manipulation and he will even admit it when he is drunk enough. Our therapist even said during our first visit that he has yet to realize how much pain his drinking has caused.

I'm alot stronger than I was 7 months ago when this whole thing. I just try to keep focused on the day/current situation. Posting here about what has happened helps me- even for me to look back and be able to have a time line as to how things have progressed.

I do believe he has been drinking both times he has stayed here. No evidence found but it is just a gut feeling I get when I walk through the door. Maybe a lingering smell?? This time he left a bunch of stuff, including his phone charger. Supposed to stop by today to see the kids after work. Not holding my breath...

Appreciate all the support. The comments about little miss muffet made me chuckle too!

That's what I was thinking. My AH would say similar things and throw Al Anon under the bus saying that 'it's what I hear in AA meetings, about how angry and unforgiving Al Anon folks are, blah blah...'. When I talked to my sponsor afterwards, she pretty much told me he's not working a solid AA program, he's working a program called manipulation.

I already know that my AH is on his best behavior right now because he needs to keep his status quo in this house. He doesn't want to suffer financially, he doesn't want to live alone, he doesn't want to have limited contact with his son.....I get that. It's unfortunate that it all comes down to their choices vs our choices. What are we willing to put up with and how much pain will it take before they choose sobriety for themselves instead of forced sobriety for others?