"Open to those who love someone who is addicted to alcohol".

Doc's wife is a recovering A and his MIL is an A.

Accordingly he has every right to be here. For those who are triggered by his posts either don't read them or put him on ignore.

He is trying to sort through a really tough situation - one anyone could be in (or are in). I appreciate that he is trying.

Hi Mike, I think it helps us when we help others, yes I agree. It's a win, win for everyone.

You found an apartment - great news ! Do you like it ok ? Are you going to take things out of the house to furnish it or buy new?

Today I think your focusing a lot on your wifes needs and wants, but some of it sounds in conflict with what you need for yourself in this moment. Dont react until your sure its follows your authentic feelings, and will cause you no harm emotionally.

I like the idea of helping your kids do something nice as a gesture, but your separating, been called a whole slew of curse words, asked to leave your home. I think buying her a nice card was appropriate for your show of emotions. Fathers day is in a month, wonder what you will get?

Like with the rubber-band. Its none of her business how you channel your thoughts or what tool your using. If she sits in the session with a scowl on her face you have to accept it right? You do what you need to do to keep the feelings from escalating within yourself and view it as a positive accomplishment for you ! There are other methods but what you do is YOUR CHOICE.

Doc, I think you belong here. I have been reading your posts, not responding too much, because quite frankly I had a lot on my plate this week, or should I say this month.

I'm a RA. When I came here I was in the newcomer section, then I found this place. It's my haven. I questioned a lot of things. I didn't know if my ex was really abusive, was I the abusive one, if I was an alcoholic in denial, if my ex was an alcoholic in denial. I didn't know much of anything.

Like I said, I had a really bad month. I realize now that I was seeing black and white, and not seeing some gray areas. I realized that because I have been a member here, and posting here.

I know if I was posting my stuff in the newcomer section, I would just be told that I was right, and that I am doing the best that I can. See, here, I couldn't do that. I was called on things, and I appreciated it. I don't want to be right, I want to recover, and I can see that in you also.

So my RAH and my seriously codie self only went to marital counseling twice. But I can tell you that he was stonewalling and terribly defensive. I was laughing in contempt and rolling my eyes right in front of the counselor and my H. My H was also criticizing me AND the counselor. I probably would have criticized my H back but I really couldn't get over my shock and realization how far apart our two experiences are dealing with his alcoholism. That realization somewhat silenced me. I never launched into my criticism attack bc I was realizing how screwed up we BOTH were.

Stonewalling, defensiveness, criticism, and contempt are the John Gottman 4 Horseman of the Apocalypse. They're romping through my marriage and DS is watching RAH and I squabble in the car, at church, at dinner, making dinner, at the grocery store, getting ready for work, and coming home from work... We sound awful. We are awful. We are pathetic. We are substituting daily little fights for the bigger disagreements floating in the flotsam of 20 years of marriage.

Recognizing this doesn't mean I am smart enough to not engage. Last night I played a few jabs before I got body slammed so hard that even my DS commented that H's response was a bit harsh... But then I realized what we were doing and I STOPPED. I cleaned up from dinner and put myself to bed. I do not talk in my sleep. The 4 Horseman will just have to wait in the rain and see how snarky I feel tonight.

Thank you.

Yes, I found a new apartment. Two bedrooms, nice area, has playgrounds on site, nice pool, jacuzzi! :ring :) I'm very pleased with it. I'll be taking Memorial Day weekend to scour the local consignment center and Big Lots for inexpensive furniture. I may take a few things from the house. I've claimed the blender. :)

I think I'm in the process of making it increasingly clear to my wife (as I did near the end of last therapy session) that I expect and want nothing else from her right now other than that we communicate and cooperate well over the care of our children, and to leave it at that. Friendly, cordial, nothing more - at least for the next couple months. If that helps things calm down between us enough, maybe we can revisit this idea of hers that we should try and have "pleasant interactions." Or maybe not. Who knows.

So, if she gets me just a card on Father's Day - that's OK. I'd almost prefer that she didn't mark the occasion herself, strangely enough. Honestly, it's hard finding myself wanting anything from my wife right now.... at least, right this moment. I'm sure that feeling will change.

Bluechair, my social worker friend says the same thing you do about the rubber band thing. I find it helpful right now - I'm loathe to give it up just because I'm trying to take care of how my wife is feeling, don't snap the rubber band around her because it makes her mad? That seems.... codependent somehow.....

We're both recovering addicts / alcoholics, we're both codependents, we're both a mess. I appreciate the words of inclusion I'm hearing. I also appreciate the other stuff too. Yes, even the really critical stuff - I'm getting something out of that too.

-DrS

Snap away Doc! Im glad your here!

A couple of things:

1) a social worker who is a friend is incapable of giving you neutral advisement. The point of therapy is having a port in the storm by someone who is advising you and guiding you in a professional capacity. You can't substitute friendship for therapy.

2) Personally, what is co-dependent is marking every negative feeling for your wife at your wife in the moment you are feeling it, including in marital counseling. If someone did this to/around/about me, I would not hesitate to cut them off. It's extremely passive aggressive. There are way more healthy ways to accomplish this goal in earnest that don't involve letting everyone around you know how irritated you are with them. It's a silencing technique, and I would argue this is abusive.

EDITED TO ADD: IME the rubber band technique is to stop unwanted thoughts in a short term capacity. Generally Al-Anon -- and by extension SR -- advises something else entirely, which is feeling the thoughts, grappling with and dealing with them in a complete and holistic way by learning new methods of coping with our feelings. I'd also argue that the rubber band method is inappropriate method for what you say you want to accomplish. That's just me. I found that I got the most out of participating here and in counseling when I started integrating what people were telling me into my life, starting trusting the process, and stopped trying to fight the process so much.

So, if she gets me just a card on Father's Day - that's OK. I'd almost prefer that she didn't mark the occasion herself, strangely enough. Honestly, it's hard finding myself wanting anything from my wife right now.... at least, right this moment. I'm sure that feeling will change.

anything she gets for you would be most like be a gift FROM YOUR KIDS.....purchased by her of course since they are 4 and 6 years old. if they do this, why not just be gracious and make your daughters feel that it is so appreciated.

and just my perspective, if you and I were having a conversation or speaking to a therapist, etc and you began snapping a rubberband on your wrist, i wouldn't even bother speaking to you or continuing therapy...it's rude and maybe passive aggresive...say what you feel, that is why you have therapy sessions.

take yourself and your wife out of the equation for future Mother's and Father's Day. let it be about the children.

My husband has diarrhea of the mouth.

I would appreciate the rubber band.

The rubber band's for stopping obsessive thoughts. I don't think it really helps with blurting out stupid stuff, unfortunately. Haha

Rubber band controversy seems neverending.

I did some more brief research about thought-stopping techniques yesterday. I'm comfortable with what I'm doing for now - unless my wife says she has a problem with it, I'm not going to worry about it too much. I'm doing it for me, not for her.

Feel free to continue the debate amongst yourselves.

-DrS

((DocSobrietist))

http://i57.tinypic.com/33tp73b.jpg

Haha, love it!

That's why I think my wife actually in the end appreciates the rubber band thing - I don't think she would have much difficulty appreciating why I'm doing it. I have the same disorder (diarrhea of the mouth - a very overanalytical, passive-aggressive version), and she's been the victim of it. My brain and my mouth are unfortunately very closely wired together. :-/

Possibly worth bringing up at next MC session, I suppose. I'll be happy to report back how the exchange goes, if it happens.

-DrS

My mouth is often running before my mind is engaged.

I feel ya, doc.

LOL Blue Chair....that is too funny!

LOL - I wouldn't even know what the rubber band was for and could care less even if I did. If it made my ex more reasonable I'd be like - snap away baby! Carry extra in your pocket!