Sometimes I feel like I have a seventh sense
 

That would be in addition to the normal five plus the nonsense.

A year ago, one of my friends found out her husband was cheating on her. Her life fell apart, she told our circle of girlfriends in tears about how horrid it all was. How he had lied to her. Betrayed her. Taken their young children to the zoo with his mistress behind her back. Shared the most personal intimate details about him with us.

All the while, I had this sense. And when the divorce proceedings got really ugly, I asked her, sitting in her attorney's waiting room: "Is he an alcoholic?"

She just nodded and burst into tears.

Another one of our friends wants to divorce her emotionally and verbally abusive husband. She's shared horror stories that have made me white as a ghost just listening. But she didn't share until I asked her in private that her husband (a successful businessman) is an alcoholic.

Today, I had a long talk with my second cousin who is contemplating breaking up with her boyfriend because he has lied to her about something inconsequential for the third time in the past six months. After she described the boyfriend's behavior, I asked her, too, if her boyfriend was an alcoholic. She said no. But two hours later, she e-mailed me and told me I was right, but that she was so ashamed of being in a relationship with an alcoholic that she didn't want to tell me.

WHY am I telling you these stories?

Because I'm contemplating why we are so ashamed of alcoholics. Why we are so ashamed of being married to one, or the child of one, or the parent of one, that we can share all kinds of other horrifying stories -- but deny the addiction?
Is it a part of our codependency, that we somehow feel like we're responsible? That if we were just "better" they wouldn't have to drink?

And also -- if we are so ashamed of being in a relationship with an alcoholic -- dear HP, imagine what it's like to be an alcoholic and admit it.

What do you think?

I know for myself i felt so much more free and less alone when i stopped hiding my ah's addiction.

I don't know that I ever felt ashamed per say that he was living with an addiction.

I did take a long time to come around that I had a loved one with problem drinking. For me it was MY IDEA of what alcohol addiction looked like that I had so wrong.

He worked, he did not get bad with drinking every time he drank.....the problem must be in my head.

After I finally came to terms with what I experienced, and had given myself permission to call it what it was, it was such a relief to read on addiction, Al-Anon and open AA meetings.....I was able to be validated and that I had not experienced before. I did no

Your shame comment has spoken to me though. As someone who has had years of work on her own addiction (that I voluntarily got help for) I don't think I truly appreciated how shameful his addiction might be to him. That is sending off signals to me of where some of our challenges might have existed. Thanks for posing the question.

I think a lot of the problem is that alcoholism is so misunderstood - what it is, how it affects the A & their loved ones, etc., etc.

I had an employee that I had to terminate earlier this year when he arrived to work in a blackout and proceeded to damage company property. I hated to let him go knowing it was addiction that caused this, but I also knew that it was the best thing for him to experience the consequences of his actions. The owner of our company & the guy's supervisor (who have personal experience with A's) would really like to bring him back to work if he can show commitment to recovery. My boss, on the other hand, repeatedly ranted to me about how this person was completely hopeless, a waste of life, and would be completely unable to be a dependable employee, even if he was in recovery. My boss is an asshat.

My point - I think it is perceptions like those of my boss that keep A's feeling ashamed. There are a lot of misconceptions about A's, and it's hard to know how educated people are about the disease & its effects so it's hard to be open about it.

Amy, you definitely have a seventh sense...I like your sixth sense, too!! I think once we become educated we are able to identify the indicators.

Don't think any less of me for saying this, but I associate alcoholism with being either poor or uneducated. I don't know where I get that stereotype from but that's the first thing that pops into my mind. My husband and I are both educated and successful, which us why it's so shameful for me to admit to people that my husband is 'one of them.' Some hillbilly in a pickup truck throwing back countless bottles of beer. Where in reality my alcoholic husband drinks bottles of grey goose in his Infiniti in secret.

Oh I definitely don't! Because I thought my parents were nuts when they said AXH was an alcoholic. Because I knew alcoholics -- they were the ones that slept on park benches and lived under bridges and smelled bad!!! AXH had a successful career and was a respected part of the community!

I've had "those" kinds of conversations with clients, never easy.

I also think more than shame i had a certain amount of ignorance.... Not really connecting the dots to see that our problems were related directly to his drinking. It wasn't always easy to see the direct line between cause and effect.

I was asking myself these same questions yesterday and wrote about it on another thread. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ent-shame.html

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Copying and pasting some of my thoughts from yesterday here.

The ‘shame’ part:

When we live with the abuse of an alcoholic or addict, it’s embarrassing or shameful to admit it, so we often stay silenced about it in the outside world. Even after we learn that we did not cause it, we cannot control it, and we cannot cure it, we often still live in secrecy about it, maybe with the exception of sharing with trusted loved ones. We come here and share anonymously with people who get it. We read and learn about it privately, we go to anonymous meetings, we go to private therapy, private counseling.

And the funny thing is that there are bazillions of us who are affected by the illness of addiction of some kind, in some way. I remember someone hear saying, “If you shake any family tree hard enough, there’s bound to be an addict or two that fall out.” I agree. But we treat it with such secrecy. I can think of very few people I know who aren’t affected by addiction.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with privacy. At all. I need mine too. But I feel like there is so much work to be done about addiction awareness. And abuse of all kinds. And the shame that people carry. I wish the stigma of addiction would go away. I wish that people didn’t have to hurt. I think that’s it mostly. I hate pain and suffering. I hate to see it in anyone. I have no idea what the answers are; I just needed to vent. I know there are others here who are wiser and more experienced, so thanks in advance if you have anything to share.

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Tonight's thoughts:

It really strikes me that even during recovery in families, we still do all of our work in anonymous and private meetings. We still don't want anyone to know that there is a problem.

I get your 'seventh sense' too, lillamy. I work with children every day. There are times when I will have a very strong feeling about a child and wonder if there is an alcoholic or addict in the family. Most of the time that truth exposes itself.

I guess we feel shame because humans are such judgmental creatures. We fear the wrath of judgment when we feel that others can't possibly understand our circumstances. Which is why we feel so safe when we find others who get it...therapists, AA'ers, Al-Anon'ers, people here.

And if I'm being honest, when I was in relationships with alcoholics/addicts, I didn't want to air their dirty laundry with others...because I felt ashamed of entering into those relationships. Like I should have known better, but made bad choices anyway. It would have made others think less of me...in my mind anyway. A pride issue there.

And...I didn't want others to see the bad in my chosen guys, because I knew there were good things about them to love. Protecting them...you know, as a devoted wife or girlfriend should do, right? Yeah, that didn't work very well either.

I'm rambling now, and tired, so going to stop that and get some sleep. Other thoughts are tumbling around...will need to sort them out later.

I think about the same thing, FireSprite. And it's the reason I wish addiction awareness had more attention in the general public.

I agree with everything that has been said.

I also think there are pragmatic issues.

I didn't tell my friends because I was afraid that my children would be stigmatized. I could handle the public knowing the truth, but my children? Would they stop being invited to friends' houses? Would our friends not want to leave their children at my house anymore, where Ah was often home early and under the influence (and insisting on driving kids home)? I was afraid for the children in the car, afraid of him, afraid of the domino effect this could have. When AH was mad, I was going to be hurt (mostly verbal) and he would scream at me in front of the children and I might need the police and then it would get worse still.

I was also afraid this information would get back to his employers. Then where would we be?

Little did I know then how clueless people are. Xah doesn't seem like an alcoholic so they don't believe me. But then you have to deal with people thinking you are oversensitive or crazy.

Public awareness campaign? When do we start? My sleeves are rolled up and I am ready to go to work!

^^This.

Little did I know then how clueless people are. Xah doesn't seem like an alcoholic so they don't believe me. But then you have to deal with people thinking you are oversensitive or crazy.

Yep. I cannot even describe the emotions that that made me feel. Good friends and my in laws all thinking that I'm lying is something else.

For me it was just oceans of denial.

If I brought it out under the light I'd have to face it, face my decisions, face my life, face reality. I'd have to accept that I can not *make* things happen the way I wanted. I went to great lengths and performed many mental gymnastics (which hurt me as much or more then he did in the end) to mentally live inside the dream in my head and physically live in the reality of what my life was.

This is probably a pretty common perception. Affluent people generally have the means to conceal their problems better and to protect themselves from the consequences of their drinking. I wonder if we also might balance their alcoholism against what they contribute to the community. (Do we say "He drinks but he's SO good with the Little League/donates to the Boys' and Girls' Club/volunteers at the park?") Not to say this is ok by any measure, but maybe it explains things a bit.

O I agree. For years I honestly did not think my AH was an alcoholic because he held down a job, has a degree, etc. Surprise...this is the sort of people they do call a functioning alcoholic. While they are not really functioning at all, they have not fallen off the grid so to speak. Definitely still an alcoholic.

:c011:

FireSprite, I really like this. As I moved on in my recovery the shame had less to do with her drinking and more to the unskillful way I handled it. It took me a while to get to the point and forgive myself and move on. I did the best I could with what I had at the time.

Your friend,

I think this -- the bolded part -- may be one of the most important things we learn in this process. That we can't do more than we can at any given point. And so I hope I did not come across as judgmental. I was the same way. Even after AXH threatened to kill us all, I was very cautious who I shared his addiction issues with.

I am cautious to ask people because I sometimes feel like I see alcoholics everywhere, kwim? But it's frightening how prevalent alcoholism is. :(

Sometimes I feel like the kid in Sixth Sense (or in your case, Seventh Sense): I see brain-dead people.

The more I learned about alcoholism and its effects on the brain and body, and how addiction can trump love and every other noble human emotion, and the more I talked to friends, I began to realize the prevalence of alcoholism. One of my best friend's spouses; my neighbor; the father of a close friend; my SIL's ex-husband, etc, etc, etc. I never knew about their situations until I started being open about our family "secret."

At first I didn't want to be ostracized, but instead I found acceptance and love with friends sharing their stories and helping each other in recovery and deepening our friendships.

llilamy, we are ashamed of alcoholics because society does not view it as a true illness. Many medical professionals will say it is but believe otherwise. The court system treats it as a crime and not a illness.

Again, don't hate me but I also don't view it as an illness (please don't take offense, I'm just sharing my personal view.) If all a cancer patient had to do was stop buying cancer at the cancer store, they would do it. That's just how I feel though.

Your opinion is shared with the majority of doctors in the U.S..
Stung, what is addiction then? Is it a "bad habit" like biting nails? Do people who abuse alcohol want to destroy their lives? Do they want to end up in prison or the insane asylem??

Upset, I think it's a symptom of something bigger. I personally associate it with extreme morning sickness that some pregnant women get. It's something that threatens your overall well being but its not the root problem. My husband's problem isn't that he's an alcoholic, he has some other problem that he's trying to treat with alcohol. The alcohol has now become a secondary problem and I'm only privy to that one because we have children together and were living together.

Again, these are only *my* opinions, they're not backed up by research or anything else. That's how I feel based on what I've learned this far.

Actually, my experience has been the exact opposite -- that the court system views alcoholism as a disease. To the point where spouses of alcoholics are now ordered to continue supporting alcoholics financially after a divorce because they are sick and can't be expected to support themselves...

What I'm wondering is why a friend can tell me that her husband beats the crap out of her and calls his own children names -- but somehow, telling me he's a drunk is worse? That's the part I don't get. I have a lot of sympathy for an addict. I have zero sympathy for an abusive jerk.

My ex is at the end of his liver disease, he's in and out of the hospital with internal bleeding from all the alcohol. He's thin, sick, depressed and never feels any sense of well being. If all it took was will power not to go and buy more alcohol there would be no alcoholics. So, I believe it is a disease but they can also get treatment for it.

As for "alcoholism is not a disease" -- I'll just share this image that's been shared here before.http://www.encognitive.com/files/ima...brain-scan.gif

This for me too
In the summer I just thought "he liked his beer"...hmm I knew he drank too much but it wasn't really a problem
By September I knew there was a problem because he was failing at attempts to stop.
By October I recognized it for what it was and was getting ready to leave
By November I had started my AlAnon journey
In December he decided to get sober and has been at daily AA for four weeks.
It feels like Solomon Grundy. Goodness knows what January will bring.

I go back to my theory. Not all drinkers are narcissistic asses, just lots of narcissistic asses love to drink. It is a personality that is prone to addiction in my opinion.

That being said, for me, the narcissistic man that I married was there before the alcohol, I just had on the blinders and did not realize it. I do believe alcoholism is a disease. I do not believe it is an EXCUSE to treat people badly, say crap things and expect your spouse and people around you to excuse it, or any of those other crappy things. My AH was taught right from wrong. He still knows right from wrong. He still chooses wrong...alot. I don't just mean by choosing alcohol. I mean being a pessemist, by saying crappy things, talking negative about people, the list goes on and on. We are not compatable any longer.

Thanks for letting me ramble on in my thoughts on this.

lillamy, the court systems goal is to punish and destroy lives. My son wasn't told he had the disease of addiction but that he was a convict. I think alcoholism is a spiritual disease, however, the stigma of addiction still exists even in my church. I've seen admitting to a DUI is very frowned upon by my co-workers.

I get what you are saying & had the same opinion for a long time.

I realized though, that no cancer patient deals with an inner voice urging them to buy more cancer, convincing them that cancer will make their life better. There is no dichotomy inside a cancer patient's mind rationalizing to them that they NEED it. It also took me a while to understand that this Voice doesn't always exist from the first-ever drink taken, that it grows in strength internally behind the scenes just feeding off the addict's intake & growing.... only speaking up when it is threatened, making it very difficult to differentiate from their "regular" inner voice.

If that person never picks up their first drink, this part of themselves may never become activated. But if they start drinking socially then increase their volume along with their stress it seems to become a chicken & egg thing - it no longer matters which came first or why.

Alcoholism would seem to fall more on the mental health spectrum of disorders than a physical disease. If you think about it in terms of bipolar or similar disorders, it is more comparable IMO.

Upset, the court's job is to hold us accountable for illegal acts we commit, not to diagnose and treat us for our addictions or illnesses. With the exception of mental insanity, those with mental disorders are still held accountable for their criminal acts. I can assure you the prisons are filled with people suffering from various mental illnesses.

I know there are many things that need to be reformed with the justice system, but ultimately, if someone commits a crime, it is that person's fault he/she ends up incarcerated and it's that person's responsibility to seek help changing his/her behavior.

FWIW, my older brother spent 10 years in prison for armed robbery (he was armed with a water gun, his buddy had a real gun.) We have different fathers. My brother was physically abused (thrown through a window as a toddler as an example.) My brother was an angry, screwed up man who abused alcohol. He chose change in prison. Now, he's a husband, father, prison chaplain. The key to his transformation is that he wanted it.