Should I believe that he'll change?
 

I'm new to this forum and in the very beginning stages of learning about my boyfriend's alcohol addiction.

Last night, he came home late, so drunk that he could barely stand. So drunk he could hardly keep his eyes open. Let me repeat, I'm in the beginning stages of learning about his disease, so I'm not sure if I handled this in the best way...

He sat on the edge of the bed and asked me if I thought he drinks too much. I was honest. I told him that he can't stop drinking, even when he decides to have a sober day. I told him that I worry about his health, that I worry he'll die early because he drinks so much. I told him that he's alcohol dependent, he has withdrawal symptoms if he postpones his drinking. I told him that I think he needs professional help kicking this addiction.

He laughed and said that I was wrong, that he could cut back on his drinking. He said that he didn't know that I had a problem with his drinking (not true, btw) but now that he knows, he'll only drink 5 drinks a night, 4 nights a week. He currently drinks at least 6 drinks every single night.

I do not feel like he'll be able to keep his word. He's tried drinking less before and it never works. I'd like to be supportive with him cutting back his drinking, but I don't want to be disappointed if or when he fails. What is the healthiest way for me to respond to this? What is healthiest for him? What is healthiest (mentally, emotionally) for me?

Only an alcoholic would state; "I'll cut down to 5 drinks a night". Which is probably triple what medical professionals suggest is safe.

Let him do him n you do you.

You know the truth. You know he's dependant on it. You know he won't stop. So with all that, don't argue with a drunk. He'll stop when he's ready n not a day sooner.

So the question is... what are you doing for YOU?

You didn't cause it, you can't cure it, and you can't control it. The healthiest way for you to "handle" someone else's drinking is- to let them handle it. Upsetneedhelp is right on the money saying "only and alcoholic would say 'I'll cut down to 5 drinks a night.'
Nothing you do or say will change this man. Educate yourself about alcoholism and consider attending an Alanon meeting if you are determined to stay in this relationship.

Unfortunately, cutting back isn't going to make it go away. Eventually he will be right back to drinking what he did before. It's frustrating as heck to deal with. He must be having second thoughts though about his own drinking to have come to you and asked you your opinion. Although he laughed at you, hopefully soon he will agree before it spirals out of control and seeks help. What you need to figure out is that if you are prepared and willing to go through this struggle with him? There will be fights, hateful words, hurt feelings, oh the list goes on. You need to make sure whatever your decision is, that you do whats best for YOU. Realize that you and your feelings and well being DO matter.

And I second the Al Anon meetings if this is something you want to fight for!!

What are the repercussions if he doesn't moderate? Have you drawn any boundaries yet?

As Upsetneedhelp stated, this is several times what is considered "heavy" drinking. Also, if he is like any alcoholic I know - and I know a LOT of them in AA - he is lying about his intake. He is able to sneak drinks when you aren't around, or at work, lunch, etc.

As I am fond of saying, if we As could moderate, we would have a "moderation" forum here, full of moderation success stories. What we actually get is a lot of folks coming back to the newcomers forum after a few months saying "y'all were right, I can't moderate".

This is a classic alcoholic statement of denial. He might maintain control for a few days or even two weeks, but before long he will be back and worse than ever. Five drinks a night is NOT normal. And most doctors double the number when a patient tells them how much they drink. You seem to have your head around this being HIS problem, so let him do what he's going to do. What YOU need to do is take care of yourself. This is a pretty good time to figure out what you want. Alcoholism is progressive, meaning this is as good as it'll ever be. Is this what you want for the next 5, 10, 20+ years? Do you want to get married and have children? Whatever you do, DO NOT have children with this man unless he is sober for at least a year. I personally would recommend five years, but I was raised in an A home and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. What do you want for your future? You deserve happiness and a partner who is honest and won't abuse you. You also deserve the dignity of being able to make your own decisions. This is a time where you need to be selfish and think about you and only you. Best of luck to you.

Dear Tigers---Http://ww.SoberRecovery.com/forums/...-reposted.Html "Ten Ways to Tell When An Addict or Alcoholic is Full of Crap"

Do yourself a big favor, and read this post. This should answer a lot of your questions. I actually suggest printing it out and posting it on the fridge--or tucking it in your sock drawer for easy reference.

Let me know if you find it or not!

dandylion

Hi,

Glad you're here.

To me, his attitude doesn't seem to indicate that he had any intention to stop, show down, etc...doesn't even want to cut through the denial and admit he has a problem.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Many hugs to you...please keep posting here. It helps.

Peace.

he was absolutely snockered when you had this "conversation" - and even tho you articulated your concerns well, he then laughed if off and said he'd CUT BACK to 5 drinks a night, 4 days a week. I bet he gets all that counting messed up right away. it isn't the 5th or 6th drink that does it, it's the first.

the healthiest thing for you is to step back and just observe. and work on boundaries for how you will respond to his drinking. what steps are you willing to take? this had been going a while, long time i'm guessing. how much more are you willing to put up with?

Making deals with an alcoholic on how much they can drink never works either, whether its him making the deal or someone else.

He's either going to drink or not.

I'm going to tell you what I wish someone had told me long time ago.

Run away.

You're not married, you don't have kids so leave. The odds are that this is only going to get a whole lot worse. Much worse than you can imagine and the longer you stay the harder it is to leave.

You are standing at the gates of hell and you have the choice to either go in or turn around. As someone who spent many years married to an alcoholic you really want to turn around. Hell is a lot easier to get into than it is to get out of.

Your friend,

Ain't that the truth.

Amen!

Well, you're new, and yet you are not ignorant. You certainly recognize clearly the signs of an alcohol addiction. You cannot make any healthy decisions for him, only yourself. The healthiest decision for YOU as a person is to have no actively addicted individuals in your life.

You can believe that he will change, and it is possible, in theory, but don't you ever believe that he will do it for you, or for your relationship, marriage, kids, whatevet. That is a fairy tale.

You are not wrong, BTW. He is in such a denial. Sure, he can cut to 5...4...3... It is like when mine says that he must cut because he has a beer belly, but he also says that he will never stop. So...

Well said. These sorts of things always get worse. Sometimes, the addict does change their ways. Change is possible. But it is not likely. Please, don't make plans for your life based on a "maybe." And whatever you do, do not make deals with him or believe his promises. I made that mistake way too many times. Don't believe anything but actions.

I agree with most of the comments BUT if he stops drinking suddenly, isn't that a health risk given the amount he drinks on a regular basis? My AH is trying to cut down and we have been told he has to do it gradually.........he was on nearly a litre of vodka a day and is now down to around 500-600ml - a huge amount for a 74 year old.
Alcoholics are often in 'denial' and it has to be his choice to cut down - you can't make him but can you encourage him to get professional help?

Personally think that Alcoholics probably need to stop rather than moderate their drinking for at least a few months and MAYBE they can't go back to drinking at all, although some apparently can.

Sadly, I agree with Mike - it will get worse, it is a progressive disease - wish I had realised this 10 even 5 years ago. Run - easier said than done I know but please think about detaching and setting boundries and please please please put YOURSELF first - you are still young with your whole life ahead - if he doesn't get help then you will get dragged down too and yes, the gates of hell is what you may well experience sadly.

Alcoholics lie about the amount - I count number of empties rather than go by what AH says.
Good luck and best wishes

No.
You shouldn't believe that he will change.
Not based on that conversation.

I agree he knows he has a problem or he wouldn't have asked. There are people who do get sober. But you know what they do? They seek help. They don't laugh at and ridicule the concern of people who care about them.

Whether he will - eventually - change or not is the wrong question to ask. The question you need to ask - of yourself - is: "If nothing ever changes - if this is who he is going to be and how he is going to behave for the rest of his life... Is that what I would want from the person I share my life with?"

Because there are no guarantees that he will
Change. The only thing you know is what you have today. If it never gets better - would you still want this?

In order to change one must admit there is a problem and then succumb to handling that problem. Neither of which your boyfriend has done. Sorry and the chances he will are against you both. Take it from someone who has been doing this dance for a long time and Even after my ah knows he has a problem. Good luck. i would detach.

Most likely, but who are you to decide? They will always do what they want to do. Doesn't matter what you say, think or feel. It doesn't make a dot of difference how much you worry.

That's a waste of your precious time on this earth.

Tigers, do spend as much time as you can reading on this forum. As others mentioned, don't miss the stickies at the top of this page. You need to educate yourself about what alcoholism is and what alcoholics do., and this is one of the best places I know of to do that. This will help you a lot in making decisions abot your future.

I'd also strongly agree w/those who mentioned Alanon, but I would not limit my recommendation of Alanon to "if you want to stay in this relationship." Alanon is another great source of education and support, and you will need both as you find your way forward, whether you ultimately stay w/the A or leave. The sooner you can get to a meeting, the better. There are a lot of threads here about people's experiences in Alanon; search the forum if you want to know more.

The one other thing I'd like to mention is that many (all?) of us come here, start reading, and think "oh, things are really bad for these people, but me and my A, we are SPECIAL! MY A would NEVER do what these other ones did...I'd NEVER "give up" on my A like SHE did...I REALLY LOVE my A, and that will make all the difference!" Sadly, we all come to learn that we are no different than anyone else in any situation here. To repeat a phrase I hear here often, if love was all it took, this site wouldn't exist. If we could love our A's into sobriety, if we could love them into being the people we wanted them to be (b/c simply removing alcohol from the equation doesn't solve the problem), then there would be no need for Alanon or SR. The fact that both SR and Alanon are thriving is proof that love simply isn't enough.

Again, as others have said, your A has not shown any signs of wanting to quit. The only person you have any influence over is yourself--take care of YOU. Educate yourself and find support from those who understand. Wishing you clarity to see where your path lies and strength to follow it.

There are lots of different kinds of A's out there.

There are the A's in denial and actively drinking and they are in various stages of the disease manipulating others and quacking away at whoever buys in and will listen.

There are the A's that are in jails, mental institutions and hospital beds and many of them are in deep trouble with their lives in ashes or fighting for their lives. Many of them are still in denial and have no intention of changing... EVER. Some are going through the motions and saying what others want to hear to save their marriage or get a lenient sentence from a judge or praying to their HP as they have been given a death sentence by their doctor.

Then there are the A's that are actively trying to find their own way out of alcoholism. They know they have a problem and are actively seeking a solution. You can tell by their actions not their lips that they are sincere in their attempt. Statistically most will not find their way out and they will struggle with their addiction all of their lives and drift in and out of active drinking.

Then there are the A's that actually do find authentic true recovery and work everyday at their whole being... spiritually, physically and emotionally. They deal with the WHY to their drinking by working on themselves... their selfishness and other issues that all alcoholics seem to share. Some are in AA or other programs and some are in spiritual programs such as Celebrate Recovery. Some are Buddhists or completely secular and have a therapist or counselor working with them.

These A's are the rarest of the rare. They are few and far between. The 20 and 30 year chips in AA have a lot of dust on them. My hats off to these men and women.

And then there are the tweeners... standing in the gaps of these different groups. Trying to figure out how to drink and keep their wife and their job. They learn to lie and say what people want to hear while they sneak around and drink. This is the craziest world for the those that love the A because up is down and down is up. It is living in the rabbit hole where you never know if the Red Queen is going to invite you to tea or take off your head.

And then there are the A's who after a lifetime of misery upon themselves and their loved ones as well as society shrivel up and die because their body shuts down or they crash into another family in the family car. Or they choke on their own vomit or drown in the tub drunk.

It's not pretty loving an alcoholic. I know... I loved my dad and he died in his alcoholism. I love my brother who just beat his 3rd DUI and in 1 year he gets back his license to drive and he will drive drunk again to maybe kill your family on the road. And I loved my XA... I still love him and he is sober today. Doing well! Very, very well.

But I won't take him back... ever. He is an A and A's drink. Tragically he will relapse one day and I will cry for him but I will detach and go on living. Because I am in recovery and I released him to his HP long ago....

I know this is a Debbie Downer post but well...its true and truth sets you free. The truth is we choose to pick our poison and our choices determine our destiny. I would rather live a happy, joyous life without him than live with the dread of his picking up a drink and entering into the hell of addiction again.

Sorry to tell you this but it's going to get worse, much worse if he doesn't admit he's an alcoholic and if you don't start getting help. I've been where you are at and now I am dealing with the I guess 7 years of wasted time that I posted here asking the same types of questions and riding along the "cutting down" conversations, broken promises, fights etc.

I'm still learning just like you. My husband is sober almost 60 days (30 days were rehab) and now we are in a different kind of h&ll trying to sort through the wreckage. I'm hopeful we can make it through this but I don't know. A lot has been done. You're thread is titled Should I Believe He'll Change? Currently? What what you have shared? Not for a single second should you believe he will change. Keep posting here it's helped for me. I have been where you are at and I am praying for you.

I agree with the others here, who say you should leave. I also got involved with someone who had a drinking problem established way before I ever knew him. I knew nothing of the disease and believed him when he said "I'm not gonna do that anymore. I've changed." Along the way, he had all kinds of excuses to justify his behavior, like "This is better than I used to be!" as if that justified any of it. If you stay with this guy, you will just end up with a broken heart and broken promises, and you'll inevitable beat yourself up wondering why he isn't being true to his word, why he doesn't care enough about you to just stop. It really has nothing to do with you, nothing you can say or do will change his draw to alcohol. It's sad and painful….But really, just walk away.

To learn as much as you can about alcoholism. Read through posts here at SR and seek out al-anon meetings in your area. Gain as much knowledge as you can with FACTS not hope so that you are prepared to make wise and healthy decisions for yourself going forward in life.

:tyou

Since I read this, it has been BURNED into my brain. I woke up thinking about it, and know I am standing at it!! This is really helping me. thank you.

Thank you to Dawnerzw and others who have given similar advice. I'm starting to realize that I put great amounts of energy and time into making sure he's happy and taken care of, but I'm not spending any time taking care of myself. This thread has opened my eyes to the ways that I'm ignoring my own needs and I'm very excited to change that soon. :)

I also appreciate the advice that conflicts with this, the responses that tell me to end the relationship and save myself the heartache. As Mike poetically stated, "You are standing at the gates of hell and you have the choice to either go in or turn around. As someone who spent many years married to an alcoholic you really want to turn around. Hell is a lot easier to get into than it is to get out of." I can say with certainty that, at this exact moment in space and time, this relationship is right for me. As I learn more about his disease it will help me make an informed decision about the future of our relationship. That being said, I know enough to know that I don't know everything, and I am not blind to the possibility of this relationship being unhealthy for me. I sincerely appreciate your stories and experiences, thank you for sharing them with me.

I feel very lucky to have joined this forum. Thank you all for sharing your personal knowledge and understanding of addiction to help me navigate my own struggles with it.

According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA), men should have no more than 14 drinks a week; more than that and they are increasing their chances for alcohol-related health problems. The NIAAA recommends two ways to drink no more than 14 drinks a week:

Low-risk drinking: No more than 4 drinks a day, no more than 4 days a week.

Moderate drinking: No more than 2 drinks a day, 7 days a week.

I was surprised by the low-risk drinking guidelines... it seems like a lot of alcohol to me! But you can find these guidelines on their website at rethinkingdrinking.niaaa.nih.gov

ugh. my boyfriend is drinking 70+/week... and he is also smoking pot starting at 630am-about midnight .. everyday.. for the last 15 years.. A Dr. told us he will die in the next 5-10. No major health issues popping up yet... idk. when I see that, it is really scary to consider what these people are actually taking in compared to what is recommended. wow!!