DV- Please don't use the children
 

I am a DV survivor. I searched for help from many places. I wanted validation. I wanted to feel cared about. I wanted my voice to finally be heard, I wanted to feel that I was Ok.

You see, I never knew what Domestic Violence/Abuse was. Maybe I grew up with that, and I was just use to it, maybe I thought it was an adjustment I had to make to me with another person. You know, the normal stuff, you need to compromise, need to work things out.

My dad used to tell me all the time that I was fat, and stupid. I weighed 115, and my grades were all A's but my sisters were 100 lbs, and A+ students. I was told I should go to Omar the tentmaker for my clothes. That's how I grew up, fat and stupid !!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't know any better. I found someone that actually loved me for me (or so I thought). So I married him.

I have children with him, but he is just getting worse and worse, but I look at my childhood and I was never happy then either, so I guess it's just me. He is hitting me, he is calling me names, it hurts, it hurts so bad, but I try and try and try to be the best wife ever. It's not working. I'm always wrong, there is something always wrong with me, so I keep trying to fix things, and fix some more.

But I'm still not right, so I go searching for answers, and I have children now. I tell my story. I don't know anymore, right from wrong, I just want to find out if my feelings are right, that's all I want to know. I have reached the end of my rope, I am just done with everything. I'm not happy. At times I can't wait to go to sleep, but I hate getting up again, same old, same old.

I finally reach out and try to get some help for myself. I tell my story, I feel good that I finally reached out and got my story out, and then I hear, I would call CPS on you, I would call DYFS on you.

So I shut down again. I thought I would get help, now I am being accused just like my H accuses me. I guess I am a bad person, I now am too embarrassed to reach out again.

I really thought I could have some understanding and help. I love my children. They are my life, but I'm the bad person, my husband is right.

Might as well just put up with this.

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You know me here, this might be part of my story not all of it. I know children are important, but I beg, I plead, when a newcomer comes on do not use the children. We do know things aren't right, but a lot of times our heads are so messed up from our past that we are actually asking for validation of our feelings, because we don't know if our feelings are right.

We want to better ourselves, but we are afraid, we need support, compassion and understanding. Please don't attack us. We are listening, that's why we came here. Something didn't feel right with us, so we were seeking help. We may say that we want to stay in our situation, that we are just looking for ways to improve it. We may be still trying to fix our situation. We don't have experience. We are reaching out to you, because we don't know what to do anymore. Please be compassionate. It was hard enough for us to write this. We are in pain. We are confused. We need help!!!!!!!

I came looking for help, please help me.

Disclaimer, this is not my story but it is the story of many people coming here looking for help.


PLEASE HELP ME TO GET MY OXYGEN MASK ON SO THAT i CAN HELP MY KIDS

Thank you, Amy.

Amy, I want to thank you for this post, also!! This is a message that really needs to be heard, in my opinion.

After all, if we drive someone away from the door--how have we helped them? We may have missed a window of opportunity to change a life--or lives.

I know that, at times, it is entirely appropriate to give difficult feedback--but, I would suggest that we all remember this saying from AA (I think)....

"SAY WHAT YOU MEAN; MEAN WHAT YOU SAY; BUT, DON'T SAY IT MEAN!!

This alone, would cover a lot of situations.

dandylion

There are threads Amy, that I think you are our resident expert on. I rarely take part in them. I may read them. Mostly I sit back and watch you do your magic.
This one brought tears to my eyes.
I think we all have to realize the gravity, the seriousness, of some threads.
Let Amy do her magic. Watch, and learn.

Thank you!

(((hugs)))

Amy:
Thank you for reminding all of us how serious this can be and none of us should ever lose our compassion, our caring and to speak out and always do the right thing!

Thank you to everyone who has read this.

I didn't have young children when I left, my children were already in college, or on their own. It was hard enough for me to post and to ask for help. Even though I had no children, some of the responses to me made me feel ashamed, embarrassed, and afraid to ask for help, I stopped posting there and further isolated myself.

Just know that it wasn't this forum that I first joined. I find SR to be the best.

I agree that SR is the best. I stayed off for so long but it was out of shame for not following through with my own conditions. Don't know why it kept me away as everyone here is going through very similar situations and I don't ever feel judged, just kept myself busy judging myself! I am so happy to have this forum as you tend to isolate yourself when going through a hard time and it gets lonley for sure.

God Bless!

hopeful, it is a very difficult process. It sometimes takes many times of leaving to stay out. I got the T shirt on that one. I isolated a lot. I was afraid of being judged, even when no one was judging me, I felt I had to move things along their time line, not my own, or they would be disappointed with me. (Who was the they, or their? sometimes it does become the forum, that you are not doing all the things suggested). You get into these situations and you try to become a people pleaser. It's like you lose your own mind. You just want someone to be happy that you did what they wanted you to do. Would you believe I would lie to my therapist, so that she would think that I was doing OK??????

From the first time, or maybe the 10th time I knew I had to get out, it still took me another 8 years. I had no one to talk to really during that time. It was only the last year that I was still in that I started to talk to people, who just loved me for who I was, accepted any decision I made, that I finally left.

hopeful, I am here for you also. (((((((((hugs))))))))))) You are no longer alone.

bump

I am bumping this again today. Whether a persons issue is alcoholic partner or abusive partner, I still think it is applicable.

I lurked on here for three or four months before I got the courage to join, and that wasn't until after I left. I saw the responses given to people who were in similar situations and was frankly daunted. I knew I needed to leave, but I had no place to go, no family nearby (his family would only take us in for a few grudging days before he sent flowers or made a half-assed apology and they forced us out). I was terrified of reaching out. I needed help and support, not personal attacks on me, my parenting and my choices. Those last few months before I left, I was so low I contemplated suicide almost daily; I didn't need internet strangers to tell me I was worthless, a bad mom, etc.
Those of us on the other side need to remember what it was like before we reached out for help and started making changes.
I am also an ACoA, so I understand all about triggering in some of these posts where children and major denial are involved. But if we scare people off with a massive dose of "tough love" and even out and out threats (calling CPS/ASPCA/whatever acronym) after their first couple of posts, then that suffering will continue unabated, though that was not the intention.

Thank you Ladyscribbler. I didn't know if this would be received well right now. I did bump it only because sometimes we do scare off the newcomers. Not all, but some, I just think the ones that are scared off, are the ones that are the most in need of help and support.

Let me continue with what I had originally started

As a newcomer, I am here looking for validation, looking for a place to talk and feel safe, would really like to vent also. You see, I have been in my situation for so long, I only know what I am use to. I don't have any tools to work with, except for the tools that I am currently working with, and I know that they aren't working, so I am coming here to seek knowledge, but I may be slow at times, you see, the way I have been doing things, well, it's kinda ingrained in me. Perhaps since childhood, perhaps my many years of marriage. I may be in denial at times, but sometimes, I think, not that much, since why would I be seeking out help, if I thought I knew everything.


Please don't condemn me for what I am doing, it's the only thing that I know. It may take me a while, but I am looking for friends and support, you see, I have none. I have isolated myself so much, I have no one to talk to.

You see, I don't trust easy, it's not easy for me to trust anymore. Please don't hurt me. I need more then ever just a shoulder right now. I am not saying that I don't want to learn, I am just saying that I need someone to lean on tonight. I am trying to trust again. I am trying to live again. Just needed a little gentle push in the right direction and someone to hold me up till I can hold myself up again.

This is my prayer.

Thank you, Amy!!!!!!!!

I could have written every word of that. When I first posted here over four years ago, I would never have imagined I'd be in my own apartment at this point. I don't believe I could have gotten this strong without SR. Several times I posted here, then left for a long time because I just wasn't ready. But I lurked and kept reading, wanting to believe my situation would be different. Even now, I am very sensitive to being judged, especially when it comes to my children. It's very important to tread lightly and be understanding.

I'm not sure I would say that anyone is "using" the kids to try and make anyone feel bad here ...

I know that had people here not pointed out (bluntly and even harshly at times) that my kids -- young kids without voices-- were being harmed by my staying put and tolerating the status quo I would have continued to stay and tolerate it and my kids would be way worse than they are.

I was abused as a kid, then abused by my AH and long before he touched our kids they were being harmed by him by my being there.

I was once one of those newcomers who got told some tough things that I did not like one bit but the fact that I stayed and kept reading was bc I knew they were right.

I hope somehow we can have there be a happy medium here where we support one another but also speak honestly.

After reading your post though I think I do need to think about ways to do a better job of expressing that happy medium here to newcomers.

I just feel strongly that young kids have no choice about their environment and the sober parent kind of does have an obligation to keep them safe.

Thanks, and I agree with you.

It's just when someone is a newcomer, sometimes this frightens the person off, then what did we actually do. We stopped support to a person that really needs it. I wasn't aware of the damage I was doing to my children, but I would have ran like hell if someone mentioned calling cps on me. I would have thought they got my computer address, they know where I am.

I would have stopped asking for advice.

I know that I am not always right, no one is, but that was my experience. I stopped seeking online support or any support because I further isolated myself then I previously did. I thought if people online thought I was a bad mother then I am a bad mother. I wanted to hide the dynamics of it even further.

I strongly feel if the person who is asking for support is given a lifeline, a support system, someone they can trust, they will do what they need to do to help themselves and their children.

Even after separation and divorce a child is not protected. But at least the mother is stronger if she was allowed to get her "oxygen mask" on first.

JMHO

In my experience, I needed to hear what I did not want to hear and wasn't ready to hear many MANY times for YEARS before it could sink in. I needed to hear the non-sugar coated reality of what my situation was because I was so adept at minimizing it and justifying things that were wrong. I needed to hear from others that what I thought was acceptable was actually unacceptable. I needed those seeds planted. When I was ready to listen, I already had that information swirling around in my head, so I could say to myself, "oh, that is what so and so meant."

And you may be right. My own background is all abusive. I didn't know what was right or wrong. In the back of my mind I didn't feel right, but I didn't know what it was. First I really needed to get "me" back, because I wasn't there anymore, I was kind of brainwashed. I knew things weren't right, but I didn't know what "right" was. I had to become "me" again, before I could offer the oxygen mask to another.

I was also into minimizing, justifying, denying. My ex could have killed me, and I would still have been doing the same thing. "Why", there are many reasons that you can't leave. My biggest problem I guess is that you got married, you don't get divorced, you work things out. I was raised that way.

Even though I quit that forum that I was reading then, "verbal abuse", I still to this day go back there, because I knew something was wrong. I just didn't participate in it. Just wished people happy birthdays.

I just really think that first, you need to get the persons trust. If it is an extreme case of abuse, then yell out, get the h3ll out of there. If not help them build there own self esteem, confidence, self awareness, they are mothers they will watch out for their children.

Then you have to think of the court system. No matter what you do, no matter how hard you try to protect your child, most likely they will get some kind of custody. So you feel defeated there. You feel like it is better if you stay, this way you can protect your child 100% of the time, but your not free, your children aren't free, you just aren't there to watch them.

So to me, what is the answer here? Mine would be to build up the person that is not an alcoholic so that they can do the best for their child.

My own background is all abusive. I didn't know what was right or wrong. In the back of my mind I didn't feel right, but I didn't know what it was. First I really needed to get "me" back, because I wasn't there anymore, I was kind of brainwashed. I knew things weren't right, but I didn't know what "right" was. I had to become "me" again, before I could offer the oxygen mask to another.

This was my experience as well. I grew up with an alcoholic father and a paranoid schizophrenic/codependent mother. I had no idea what normal, rational, acceptable behavior looked like or what people meant by a healthy relationship. I just assumed the whole world was effed up and that I was somehow getting what I deserved because it was all I knew.
And I don't mean we shouldn't be honest with newcomers. I have posted my experiences as an ACoA on threads where I saw that it was relevant experience- the ones where someone is rationalizing "staying for the kids" or saying they don't think it affects their kids and sometimes where people will ask how and when does it start to affect the kids. But there's no call for harshness or threats to call CPS, etc. when someone is posting for the first or second time, desperate for that magic answer that everyone here has sought at one time or another.

Agree. Don't know if this is the right place for this, but to me if there is physical abuse and/or extreme dangerous behavior, removing either the A or getting everyone else away from the A is imperative. If there are life and death situations in someone's midst and they are not seeing it but others are, that to me says, "oh ****," they need a come to jesus talk at that point. Hard reality discussion time.

There are many variables that come into play, but if someone asks for help and you/me/we (or most people) can see what is up, then it is time to suggest taking the blinders off and listing out what might be going on...and ways to deal with it. Those ways are probably not what the person who asked the question want to hear though. No one likes to hear this stuff. I know that I didn't. But...if people kept glossing things over, I would not have gotten it. However, I am stubborn and need things repeated. That is how my mind works. As I have gotten older, I have learned to not take things personally, especially if those things are from strangers. Personally, I try to take away what I can and leave the rest but know that I might need "the rest" someday.

I must say that I have told many people to run and to get out when there was physical abuse.

I stayed for the physical abuse so I will never be upset if someone does not leave and did not hear my "rightness".

I think sometimes you can tell how to deal with someone. If they do not want to take your suggestions the first time, do not beat them over the head with your "rightness". It's actually trying to control another person, and not getting them to do what you want.

In a way, with all the abuse that I have gone through, I know when to hold them and when to fold them. When to offer a shoulder, and when to give a kick in the a$$. Sometimes I think you need to listen, and take the lead from the person who is talking.

See where there head is at, at that time. Offer ES&H. Do not bash, do not diminish. Be a safe person, a sounding board for another person. I am not the smartest person in the world, and I will not project that onto another person, that my way is the only way. I will let them know that I know and I can feel what they are going through, but they have their own mind, and it is not my job to make decisions for them. I will just be there for that person, be a friend, be a shoulder for no matter how long it takes. It took me over 10 years. I can do that for another.

Also, if we want to talk about children here I will. I think it is a lot better for a child whose mother or dad who is in a situation with an alcoholic, or someone who is abusive to be receiving help for themselves. We scare people away from coming on too strong we scare away the better parent.

That parent then starts to feel really bad about themselves. So how did we help?

Did we in fact cause additional harm or abuse?

I just have one other thing to say about this or these situations with newbies. They come here and they tell you that they are not abused. But yet this guy or gal is drinking everyday coming home drunk and there is no emotional connection. That is abuse !!!!! Also, they are not telling you a lot of other things.

So, is it our job to beat them up, more then or equal to the emotional beating that they have already been taking???? Or should we give them a safe place to share, and then bring up other things once they get their emotional mind back to normal ??????

First I think it's important for me to state that I have been in an emotionally and verbally abusive marriage, but not a physically abusive one. Also, I have no children of my own. I want to be clear about what my personal experience has, and has not, been.

Over the years of my belonging to this community, I have seen many, sadly too many, abused women and men come here and share part of their story. I have read many stories from couragous survivors, those still 'in the trenches', and those who have just made that first, tentative attempt to reach out to others about the horrors in their homes. More than one member of our Administrative team are survivors of abuse.

People who have lived with abuse for a very long time have become so beaten down, degraded, insulted, told they are stupid, ugly, worthless, lazy, and unloveable that they come to accept the abuser's words as their reality--they have known no other for such a long time. Perhaps their whole lives. Reaching out for help for the very first time is often an act of monumental courage that I cannot begin to fathom because of the brainwashing they have received.

My greatest hope is that an abused person:

• will be lifted up by belonging to this community.
• will receive support and the truth spoken with love.
• will learn to trust and listen to the voices here who care because the words we use show that we respect the abused person's intelligence and capabilities.
• will realize that we think she or he is a valued human being worthy of dignity and respect.
• will come to realize that life does not have to be darkness, anxiety, and terror for them or their children--that there is a better way.

I have learned a great deal about abuse and domestic violence in reading the stories on SR and talking to people one-on-one over the years--more than I ever hoped to learn. To those of you who have survived abusive childhoods and/or abusive marriages and are speaking 'from the other side', thank you for sharing your stories. You have helped more people than you realize, and you are in my prayers.

My situation wasn't physically violent (well, minus one instance) but the above was EXACTLY how I felt when I found SR and posted here. And I was VERY defensive when I came here. On one of my first posts someone wrote that they had to stop reading because my situation was giving them an anxiety attack. It made me feel like such a freak and such a bad mother that even the people who only know me through a web forum could see how screwed up my life was.

I agree wholeheartedly that mothers especially need gentle words. We all think we're protecting our kids when we get here. It's not until we're convinced that we need recovery and then start to actually seek it that we realize that we weren't protecting them much at all. Telling a mother bluntly that she's not protecting her children are fighting words, IMO, and you'll get one of two responses: fight or flight.

Stung, you have gone so far since you came here and I am so happy for you.

((amy))

I think it depends on the person. Some newcomers are much further along than others. Its so important to hear what they are saying and to remember they need support just to get through today many times. Its just like the addict themselves, the partners dont change until ready and they need support not criticism during that time. Things can be said with kindness always. We who have been here for a while need to remember frequently how it felt in the beginning so we can be better in tune to supporting others. Just my opinion.

hopeful,



I agree with that, I said that in #23. Know when to hold them, know when to fold them, that was what I was referring to.