Change your expectations to match your reality and you'll never have to feel this way about her or your ex-husband. And why in God's name are you maintaining contact with either of them? That's a rhetorical question-- I'm not asking you to tell me, I'm asking you to tell yourself.

What's that definition of insanity again?

I'm sorry,

Cyranoak

Cyronak- You are right-- it's insane to interact with either of them. I haven't had any relationship talk with AH in ages and I don't know what possessed me to start up again. This was a "relapse" I guess. I have to have contact with him bc we have young kids. It's not realistic to have nc. I have blocked MIL's email now so I have no need to be in contact with her either.

Beth- I didn't mean to ignore your message-- I was posting at the same time as you and just now saw it. I spoke to my sponsor AFTER I'd already reached out like a fool to AH. So, by the time I talked to her I'd already done the damage. Thank you for sharing your experience. I need to accept that no matter what I do or don't do, no matter how much it's obvious I am NOT harming her baby boy, I am going to be the bad guy. I guess I thought once he was not here they'd have no more reason to blame me for anything but I was very naive obviously. I was feeling guilty about insinuations from her that I was harming her r/s with my girls and got sucked in to defending myself to her and well, you know the rest. I need to go 100% no contact with all his family and go back to having no conversations at all with AH other than about the girls. It worked for the past several months just fine and I was foolish to think we could have any other sort of conversation and have it go sanely.

Again, thanks to everyone for the warmth, realistic words, advice, perspective, experience. It helped more than you know.

WTBH you are the best! you ROCK, OK? you F*** ROCK! if you don´t believe me, believe the icon: :You_Rock_

People who do not know what respect means SUCK! and the can f*** off. :)

(I am learning that F stuff well it seems lol)

Block the emails of the in laws immediately. I designed a special TRASH folder for some people who were acting the same way towards me. I put excuses for them! so typical TC999, support the OTHER side!!!! It felt great to instruct Outlook "any email from this person, send it to trash". It felt .. logical.

What some members have done when dealing with XAHs has been having someone else read the emails and just mention the important facts, weeding out the meaningless, dramatic stuff.

All the best and I hope it gets better, I had really bad weeks not so long ago and now feel more confident and peaceful, we are only human

Be grateful that kind of people is moving away from you! that is something to celebrate.

Hugs from your friend
TC999.

PS If that was a relapse..
Congratulations on your Day no.1 :) welcome back!

Thanks for making me smile TC999. I might have to enlist someone to read AH's emails for me. Not a bad idea. In all fairness he didn't start the conversation about mommy dearest. I did. I went looking for something from him (compassion?, respect?) that I ought to have known better than to expect.

Tell me, am I being awful if I say, for my well being, that I am no longer willing to do all that I have for years to foster a r/s between AH's parents and my girls? I mean, AH can do this too right? I feel like it is my responsibilty to maintain the grandparent r/s with the girls and if I don't, I will be blamed (and badmouthed to the girls bc this has happened already and in front of me no less) for them having a limited r/s with AH's parents. They expect me to coordinate visits, have the girls call, etc... AH's parents are grown adults capable of calling or asking to visit but they don't. They sit back and criticize what I do and I spin my wheels trying to appease. I want to be done with it all and not feel obligated to foster any r/s at all with them. If AH wants to foster one, great. Is that mean of me? I don't know where boundaries end and being unnecessarily harsh begins. Am I harming my girls if I don't foster a r/s with their grandparents for them? I just don't want to have to have anything to do with AH's family at all- including seeing them, seeing their # on my caller id, etc...

I guess maybe I am just wrapped up still in worrying about how they will feel/interpret/react to what I do/don't do. I really need a good strong dose of f*** it don't I!?

lillamy- just read over your post again-- thanks for the military esque email info advice. i tend to over explain (shocker right? you'd never guess that from my posts here! LOL!) and i need to stop. since early this fall interaction with AH has been okay for the most part. when it's not it is generally bc i am trying to communicate more with him than is necessary and expecting him to be responsible or respectful. i need to keep in mind the whole expectations issue. i need to have absolutely none with AH or his family and i will reduce my frustration a lot...

I don't think that's awful at all. But (and this is a HUGE but) I feel the same way about fostering a relationship between DS and XAH's family. I completely get being done with it, tired of it, and believing that XAH could foster it if he so chose - or XAH's family could make an effort, because they don't even call. Twinges of guilt now and then, but my life is better off without being tangled in their web of enabling, backbiting, twisted form of family.

I have to be in some limited contact with my abusive XAH because the court tells me I have to for DS. I'll be darned if I'm going to volunteer to take on additional abuse.

That being said, if they should ever contact our home wanting to see DS...

I just realized something... I think a HUGE part of my motivations (stupid emotional thinking vs intellectual thinking) for engaging with MIL and then AH is connected to this.

At xmas MIL and AH were here for a "family visit" with the girls. My MIL told my 6 yr old daughter that her hair (short, adorable pixie cut that she LOVED until that day) made her not look very girly and it was better suited for a boy. Said it 3 times. Finally I put an end to it and not all that nicely.

So, when MIL started in last week with me I was tired of being the bigger person (I let the hair thing go but D6 has mentioned it repeatedly and just this week looked at a beautiful portrait of herself and said she was ugly and looked like a boy and it set me off) I hide it well for D6's sake (how much MIL's comments bothered me) and I reassure her she is beautiful of course.... But, I think my anger and hurt for my daughter is behind my desire to let MIL and AH know how I feel about their crap behavior.

It's one thing for MIL to be rude to me. Hurt my daughter and AH just stood and did nothing and told me later she "meant no harm" and I guess I wasn't as "over it" as I thought.

The girls had these beautiful pictures taken by a cool kids photographer in early Dec. I just got the photos and frames this week and the first thing D6 said was that she looked ugly and looked like a boy.

I swear to God that I have been nothing but positive about how I and the rest of the world thinks she looks and haven't let on how much I hate my MIL for what she said so I really believe that the statements D6 is making are bc she is truly deeply hurt. What grandmother says that to her grandchild????

Anyway, like I said, I was just talking about this with someone else tonight and it hit me that THIS was kind of what was driving me to interract with MIL and AH. Doesn't make it any more sane that I did interract with them but I feel better having some clarity in my mind....

Charming grandparent behavior huh?

I got no kids nor xAH nor experience.

But I'll chip in anyway.

I would prefer a healthy Mom than a stressed out Mom any day.

A mom that takes care of herself is giving the best education to the kids IMHO

(Besides they can invest in their relationship with the grandparents when they are older)
(And even if there are other circumstances which prevent this to ever happen, its not your fault)

I am sorry for you. You sound just like me, but I don't have any children. I refused to bring a baby into this life style that I chose with an alcoholic husband. I have been through hell and back with my mother in law and sister in law and brother in law... its always me, its always my fault, I push to hard, I expect to much, I nag to much... you name it I get blammed for it. I to stopped reacting about a year ago and did so great. It made my life so much better. Not my married life, as he is still an alcoholic, but my life for my well being.

About 2 weeks ago, I did react and it is the worst thing I could have done for myself. I hate being at their level .. and honestly it does not solve any thing or make anything better. It only makes it worse. I have realized that AH is the reason for the most part that i am always at odds with his family. When he is drunk which is often he has a way of turning things around and manipulating so hat it causes everyone else to fight and then he just continues on drinking not having to deal with any of it. its really sad, but in the end we can only change our behaviors not anyone elses. Its so so hard. I have tried to leave many times, and just can't seem to do it... becuase he "is a nice funny smart man" when sober....I wish you and your daughter luck.... keep strong and don't allow anyone to bring out a bad person in you... do it for yourself and your sanity. I am going to try again and not react to anything when it comes to his family.

What grandmother says that to her grandchild????

A toxic one?

How cruel and rude! my take is that you and the kids are better off away these people, strangers would behave better than they do.

We are here in a foreign country and my sister's kid gets a lot of smiles and attention and love from ladies in the mall or wherever.. STRANGERS! the attitudes given to these kids (cruel comments/not actively seeking them and waiting for you to arrange things) are unacceptable... explains a bit XAH's upbringing, imagine the hell he lived. Anyway that is not your problem either...

((HUGS))

I seem to be following you @anvilhead, and i do agree with you....changes happen when we make changes....(or something like that)...you have the control to STOP the madness for you....respect is not happening here, and it looks like it never will...

stop the insanity for yourself...dont listen to that crap...thats all it is...keep moving forward and going to meetings...detaching from this...and let it go...it is what it is....

god bless
~Maggie

ooh one more thing...its all part of the dysfunction...the grandmother, the son...THEY ARE SICK....truelly are SICK

I have gone through this type of nonsense too. My daughter wants nothing to do with her grandmother and you know what? I don't blame her one bit. They do not deserve to have these beautiful kids in their life if they are going to say hurtful things and act like an A$$!

Just my 2 cents from someone who has dealt with this BS too! My daughter is 19 now. A very smart kid that doesn't want to interact with unhealthy people, grandmother or not!

(((WTBH)))) You are not responsible for other's actions. You are trying to do the best for your kids. Thich Nhat Hanh says "my actions are my only true belongings"

Yes, other people can be cruel and thoughtless but that doesn't have to dictate how we act and/or cause us to feel bad.

My own M is similar to your MIL. She often makes statements such as "I am not liking ...." and has little regard for who she is saying it to or how it might be taken by someone even if it is her grandchildren.

For years I told myself not to interfere with my own M relationship with my kids and let them develop their own feelings toward her and I let a lot of things slide. It has been just recently that I have been working on myself as a result of the healing I am trying to do from marriage to AH that I found I can express myself to my M in a way that lets my kids know they don't have to be influenced by what others think or feel about them.

It does bother me when my M is thoughtless and in the past I found myself angry and irritated about it. I am able to calmly address it and often I might just say, "yes, you might not like it, but I do" or sometimes speaking for my kids, letting her know that they do.

I think I am just trying to relate to that part of your issue without the alcoholic aspect in it.

Perhaps D6 is old enough for you to tell her that not everyone has the same opinions of what looks good and it matters more how she feels about something.

Maybe you might try some humor and tell her your thinking her grandmother probably thinks everyone looks like a boy or silly unless they have the exact same hair as she does.

I am starting to ramble. I just wanted to reach out and hug you for wanting to be the best mom you can be for your kids. It can be tough going with all that life hands us on top of that. You are not alone. I hope you have a Higher Power. I know mine loves me and helps me and sometimes I stumble and that's ok because HP loves my kids too.

Another bottom line for me is, I cannot depend on my AH to be a partner to me and provide the support I expect from a partner, it is just not there, no matter how many times I try to get it. It may never be there so I stopped looking for it and find it inside myself and with my HP.

dancing now- yes, that is pretty much what i told d6. i explained that she loved her hair, that i love it, her friends love it and people who she herself thinks are cool also love it so one person's opinion is just that- one person. it's just remarkable the impact 1 negative comment vs 100 good ones can have on a very sensitive child. i had the same short hair when she was a baby so i've shown her pictures and she isn't constantly mentioning being upset about it. she just stunned me with how upset she was at seeing her picture. she doesn't look like a boy at all and if anything she gets compliments constantly since getting her hair cut bc it's so stunning on her... it's that it was her grandmother that i think upsets her.

in any event, i am done trying to make things good for my MIL with the girls. D6 has a strong opinion and strong will and she has every right to feel however she wants to toward her grandmother and i won't force a r/s on her any more than i will stop her from having one. i just think, like jack russell girl said, that kids are smart and will see through toxicity pretty quick.

i talked to a few good friends tonight about this and they and you all have helped me feel better. i was attaching way too much significance to one person (MIL). the people in D6's life who she loves and respects and values opinions of, all love her whatever she looks like. those are the people we will spend time with. i need to reframe my view of things-- instead of giving power to my in laws and AH, i need to focus on the vast majority of positive people in my life...

tomorrow will be a new day and a good day.

i am grateful to you all. thank you.

dancing now- yes, that is pretty much what i told d6. i explained that she loved her hair, that i love it, her friends love it and people who she herself thinks are cool also love it so one person's opinion is just that- one person. it's just remarkable the impact 1 negative comment vs 100 good ones can have on a very sensitive child. i had the same short hair when she was a baby so i've shown her pictures and she isn't constantly mentioning being upset about it. she just stunned me with how upset she was at seeing her picture. she doesn't look like a boy at all and if anything she gets compliments constantly since getting her hair cut bc it's so stunning on her... it's that it was her grandmother that i think upsets her.

in any event, i am done trying to make things good for my MIL with the girls. D6 has a strong opinion and strong will and she has every right to feel however she wants to toward her grandmother and i won't force a r/s on her any more than i will stop her from having one. i just think, like jack russell girl said, that kids are smart and will see through toxicity pretty quick.

i talked to a few good friends tonight about this and they and you all have helped me feel better. i was attaching way too much significance to one person (MIL). the people in D6's life who she loves and respects and values opinions of, all love her whatever she looks like. those are the people we will spend time with. i need to reframe my view of things-- instead of giving power to my in laws and AH, i need to focus on the vast majority of positive people in my life...

tomorrow will be a new day and a good day.

i am grateful to you all. thank you.

I had pixies all through grade school. I loved it.
Maybe mother in law is a little jealous? How sad, and another reason to keep her away from your lovely daughter.
Both MIL and ex sound very sick.
And no, I do not think you are obligated in any way to foster any relationship with a someone who would make a child feel "ugly" about her haircut. For God's sake!
When I become a grandmother, everything my grandchild does, I will be there to cheer-lead, not down grade.
It is a privilege to see your daughter. Not her right.
Blast, now I want to shoot her with my paint gun. While yelling "PIXIES RULE!!!"

Beth

WTBH ... Good on you for putting out your feelings here and trying to work it out for yourself about what are healthy boundaries (or in this case - no contact) issues with your xAH and xMIL.

We ALL stumble and fall even at the best of times... that's how we all grow and learn as human beings. I think you're doing awesome. :) Only YOU know your life inside and out with these people and it sounds as though there is some residual emotional rawness, esp. when it comes to your xMIL. And that's NORMAL!!! :)

It seems as though you were wanting to see if you could salvage an email relationship with them -at least some type of positive connection (and maybe heal old hurts?), but you saw that you couldn't and that it's a bad idea at this time for you to be engaged. -

I'm SO proud of you for trying (you are human, want to think positively of others and that is awesome!!!) and proud of you for now stepping back from it all.

It's interesting to see that the people who joined SR around the same time as I have are experiencing these deep rooted emotions... anger, betrayal, sadness, grief. --- It's a beautiful thing (I know that sounds weird) to see because it's all a part of RECOVERY!!!! And folks, isn't that the best thing we can all get from our experiences, hic-cups, 2steps back etc... to see our growth in the whole scheme of things?!

I think you're doing awesome... emotions are going to keep flooding forth for ya, but keep posting because you've got some great supportive people here who know that it takes time to heal and learn and most importantly, that we all do it differently. ;)

Big BIG hugs to you!!!

WTBH-

I missed this post yesterday, and because I don't have kids I wanted to comment about something earlier in the post.

Last week with my therapist I had a discussion about the crazy stuff my ex was saying about me.....and did I have to believe it.

We ended up talking about how some of that crazy stuff said (like what you MIL and husband said to you about this situation) is a way to deflect attention from the real issue....the drinking, his behavior etc. In a very real sense it made me a scapegoat, and I took it on....repeatedly. If it worked once why not continue to try it.....

Though I like my ex-MIL pretty well when I saw her at Xmas time (ran into her at the store) we had a talk about something non-ex related that made me realize she had no idea about the reality of my life now or then. She is still in the level of denial I was for so long before I started to get help.

That is not to excuse her. It was a help for me when I realized this...because then I don't have to take on what she says of thinks.

Just my two cents on the rest, but to me if feels like you are not getting a whole lot in return personally when you are worrying about your husband's family and their relationship with yours.