How will I(will I?) know when its time to call it quits
 

Married for 8 years to a "functioning" alcoholic with 3 small kids. I say functioning because he keeps up with his daily life. Although he functions less and less as the years go on when it comes to attitude. He most often picks fights and gets very arrogant and condescending when he drinks these days. But I digress......

He supposedly quit drinking Mother's Day last year when I told him to stop or it was over. He chose to quit but refused to go to AA. I knew it wasn't going to last for long but I decided to let him try. He did well for a few months then he would have a "slip up" weekend. The last incident was about two weeks ago. He came home from a party after he had been drinking. I asked him 3 times before he went out to not come home if he intended to drink. He of course put his desire to "not be away from his family" before my request.

Anyways, I moved out of the bedroom we've sleeping separately for two weeks. I have severed emotional ties as best I can for now. I refuse to go back to a normal relationship knowing its only a matter of time before he disrespects me again.

I'm just wondering if I'll know when its over? When is the right time to leave? When do I give up? I am married and I don't want to look back a think I walked away too soon? But I also don't want to regret not leaving 5 years from now. I know no one can tell me what to do.....I'm just looking for a little guidance in what the signs might be or maybe some personal experiences.

Anvil is right. It's an individual personal decision, but when you have truly had enough, you'll know. I know that doesn't sound like an answer, but it's true. You'll wake up one morning and just know that you are done. At that point, it won't matter what he says or promises or even if he follows through. You will be done.

Keep talking to your counselor. I think a good counselor will help you through. I did not do any work on myself until after I filed for divorce and that made it kind of hard. Is your counselor familiar with addictions and the dynamics of that? I think that is helpful.

My decision to leave came quite awhile after I was already done. I left when my life became completely unmanageable and I felt like I was going to completely fall apart. It was a rock bottom moment for me.

I want to comment on the phrase you used "When do I give up?" Give up on what? Him changing, you changing him, trying to find a way to accept the unacceptable? Giving up implies you are trying to fix something or waiting for something to fix itself. Those are not things you can change or fix. They are outside of your control. It is more about letting go. Looking around and accepting the reality of what you are holding on to. The decision isn't about giving up as much as it is about if you want to keep holding on or let go.

We talk a lot about the 3 c's on this board.

You didn't Cause it.
You can't Control it.
And you can't Cure it.

But, just as important are the 3 A's. Awareness-->Acceptance-->Action. These have a specific order, and the reason is that one leads to another. Over the years I've been reading this board, I have noticed that most people come here either shortly before or shortly after reaching the Awareness stage. Denial is a powerful thing, and most people (me included) don't want to admit there is a problem. Once we do, however, we go searching for answers and that lands many of us right here on SR.

The other thing I've noticed over the years is that once Awareness is reached, most people (again including me) want to jump right to Action. Either that, or they beat themselves up for not being able to take Action. The missing ingredient in both scenarios is Acceptance.

My suggestion to you is to work on Acceptance. Accepting he is an alcoholic. Accepting there is nothing you can do to change that. Accepting he is who he is right now. Accepting that he is disrespectful to you and is unwilling to change. Accept all of it. Let go of the illusion of control. It's not easy, but once you accept reality and let go of any magical thinking you might be hanging on to, Action will come naturally. I'm not saying you will automatically leave, and I'm not saying whatever action you take will be easy, but it will become clear to you what action to take.

L

I pondered that question for many years, and then I beat myself up for not taking action sooner. But as the folks said above, the day finally came when the action to take was as clear and natural as breathing. It still wasn't easy, but it was possible, and I was committed, and I never regretted the decision to leave for a minute. I spent so much time analyzing the decision, that when the time came, I had no doubts. Hang in there, and keep reading, learning, and growing.

Thumper, I guess I mean giving up on my husband changing himself. I know I can't change him. But aside from an alcoholic, he is still a person and he does love me. So when I do I give up on him choosing me over the alcohol? Now that I put that out there I realize what I am most afraid of is me leaving, then he decides to change, and I've already checked out and have nothing left for him. But I guess the truth is that just because I stay in the same house doesn't mean I wont get to the point where there's nothing left for him anyways.

THANK YOU LATEEDA! That is truly what I needed to hear! I feel like after this past year I am finally Aware of what is going on. And being impatient to the core I guess I am rushing the Action part. I feel like now I know what's happening(been happening) and I should do something about it. Maybe I need to slow down and take the time to let it sink in.

I want to be LaTeeDa when I grow up. :tongue:

Me too.

I posted in response to your question under the other thread. But I wanted to add that the 3 A's that Lateeda posted are great. Never heard those before and it's really helpful to me even right now. I have gotten aware, and taken action but I think that I struggle with acceptance still a lot...

As LDT suggests there will come a moment when you accept that he has already made a choice. He chooses every day.

For me it was when the fear of ending it ended. When the fear went away I took action without even hesitating. It no longer kept me in the destructive living arrangement. I didn't really analyze why at the time and have no idea what brought me to the fearless state other than I had reached the end of my tolerance for the whole disgusting mess and the ONLY thing that mattered was to get him out of the house.

My therapist made a really great point when I was where you were. She said that many women have some imaginary line, and up until the reach that line, they will keep trying. But once that line is crossed, it's game over and there's no going back. And that's exactly how I felt - like I was toeing this line, and one day BAM, I crossed it, and that was it. It was over for me emotionally. It took me a looooong time to get there, but I knew it once I'd reached it.

And by "giving up," for me, this was that I wasn't going to fight to save the marriage any longer, and was throwing in the towel on the relationship. I think that's what you mean, right?

LTD hits the nail on the head, as usual... :)

Thanks for this thread and the great posts.

For me, in order to move forward.. (work in progress) it took seeing a man dying in a hospital - it was a shock as I had never seen someone between life and death, being resuscitated then leaving us again. This experience and Elizabeth Kübbler-Ross' (spelling might not be ok) book The Wheel of Life helped me notice my days are COUNTED, I have got stuck believing "Oh I still I have tomorrow" but between my experience and this book I have found it slightly easier to take decisions for ME. I get stuck often because I feel my needs and wishes and hopes and priorities are not that important, once I give them importance, everything changes.

I got a countdown clock that helps me remember I have limited time here in this planet Earth...

I agree with the wise posts here, once you know what is important to you and have your list of priorities straight, actions are clearer and easier to take. All the best.

That's exactly what happened to me with my EXABF. I had gone back time and time again, hoping that each time things would get better. They didn't. I kept thinking that it would be a big blowout fight that would end things, but it wasn't.

It was a stupid argument over something trivial that escalated (he had relapsed again) into the moment when I realized that nothing changes, but nothing changes and in order to move on with my life, to keep my self respect, knowing deep down that I deserved better, I had to end things. I did.

It was (and to some degree still is) hard and there were times that I thought that I might try again. The more I have been on my own, the more I knew that I had done the right thing. What keeps me going is the realization that I may LIVE alone, but I was more alone when we were together. Things have improved in my life since then and I have no regrets at the way things turned out.

As a newbie here, I know I came here with the same desperation for an answer - "Do I stay or leave???!" I was wondering if we have a stickie for this subject for other newbies to see when they first get here?

As many have said - it probably won't be a Big flash of light, sounding of the trumpets, breaking news flash, or anything like that - for me it was not the feeling of can I continue to stay but when for the millionth time I found drugs on the floor where in a few hours I had grandchildren that were going to be playing on that very floor ~ I said to myself . . .

"Geez my granddaughters should NOT be exposed to this" and then a very small but firm voice inside me said "Rita you shouldn't be living like this either"

I moved out within 2 weeks and never looked back.

Prayers and good thoughts for you as you walk your path!

PINK HUGS,
Rita

Your statement indicates that you are mentally separating the alcoholism from the man, which can't be done. Yes, he loves you...but that doesn't change what has happened in your relationship, nor does it fix it. His first love is the booze.

And what if you do leave and he does change and you have nothing left for him? What then? Play the tape all the way through...I find the exercise helps me to diffuse my fears. In my case, if things didn't work out between XAH and I, it's because it just wasn't meant to be. Generally, I find I get the most frustrated when I attempt to FORCE my desires onto people and outcomes, when in reality, I have no control over any of it, except my own reactions. I firmly believe someone else IS in control, and I trust that person/entity/whatever to show me the right path *for me*. That's where my serenity comes from.

When it's more painful to stay than it is to leave.

And I want to be like LTD too!

I waited for a long time for the flashing lights, trumpets and other signs telling me it was officially over. They never came but one day I just knew it was time. Kind of like the line that DMC mentioned. I didn't step over intentionally, I just "looked down" one day and...there I was, over the line. No particular fight, no pushing, no active decision. I was just there.

I was married to a late-stage alcoholic for a brief time many years ago. And I was in a 15-year committed relationship with someone who was normal and safe when we met and very very gradually slipped into addiction.

I had to leave both of them. But for me, I could not leave without hope. So instead, each time, I separated. In the first situation--the marriage--I moved out but met my husband in marriage counseling to see what might unfold. I could not bear the thought that there was no hope. The separation and marriage counseling for me was a transition until the way was clear. It became clear when he refused to stop drinking. But those transition months made the divorce much easier for me.

The other relationship: one day I just had it and asked for a three-month separation while he figured out what he wanted. He was acting and thinking so crazy and like all alcoholics (at that time I didn't realize he was actually addicted), he was convinced that if he just moved to HAWAII that would solve all his problems.

But I was isolated with his craziness enough as it was, there was no way I was going to move to an island away from every person I knew. (Alcoholics always want to isolate us so they have more control). So I asked for a separation of three months, no contact. I could not let go completely and also could not stay completely.

The mistake I made in the latter experience is that it put me in a very painful, emotionally exhausting, almost masochistic position of having to wait to see if he wanted me more than anything else. It was an excruciating wait, I fell into clinical depression from the mental stress of the waiting and had to get medicine. The medicine re-stabilized my system. With that accomplished, I was able to think more clearly, read the books on alcoholism I needed to read, and be able to make some decisions (with medical depression, one often cannot make decisions, even the smallest).

Had I it to do over, I would still have separated as I did, but with a request for joint counseling during the three months. So as not to put myself at the mercy of desperately waiting for his decision.

His decision was to move to Hawaii.

I find that A's pretty much reveal all we need to know about them and our situation during a separation and that for us the time apart eases a transition into letting go completely if we finally need to do that.

What most spouses fear to their core is that the A will find someone else during the time apart.

I have learned in my time in recovery is that together or separated, the chances of an A having an affair are very high anyway. It is a very selfish disease which is disinhibiting and also increases the vigorous pursuit of all pleasures. Anything that brings a high and a rush. So many A's cheat, whether one is still married to them, living with them, or is separated and in counseling with them.

Partners of addicts will always be at the mercy of the addict's selfish, self-centered and predatory nature as long as they are together. The lower brain drives the addict. Not the higher brain which is the center of compassion and discretion.

Every day, your husband is wishing you would just get out of the way and stop killing his high.

And one day you might decide to do just that.

I'm sorry for your family. You are powerless over your alcoholic. Please do find all the help you can. It is so sad for everyone involved. But there is plenty of help available which can save your family.

God bless.

Every day, your husband is wishing you would just get out of the way and stop killing his high.

And one day you might decide to do just that.

^^^^ This! ^^^^

Maybe instead of looking at it as "giving up," you could look at it as "standing up" for yourself and your kids...an opportunity for you to make the life you deserve and want for yourself and them.

Move to hawaii to solve your problems huh? Yup sounds like an A!
Mine wanted to buy all new furniture....as that would 'make me want to be home".
My RAH is 18 mos sober. He is off and on again about working his program. He is almost 40 but hangs out with the youngsters in the group. He is NOT a grown up.
I Love the 3 A's!!! That is really really applicable in real life. so many of the Alanon concepts are so vague it's hard to really find the right tools at the right times...but these 3A's are about US. It's about knowing where your boundaries are. Not threatening, not accepting the unacceptable, being able to say NO I don't want that whether it be a little thing like what movie to watch or something big like a major purchase. When you Accept....you find your voice.
I told mine I didn't want to go to two different events that I had been scared to talk to him about. Yes I was scared. When I say no I'm accused of not wanting to 'work on our marriage' or punished by his silence but yet doors still slam.
I am beginning to feel that he is trying. I know that he is but he is so set in those old patterns of selfishness and "all about me" syndrome-as I call it that unless I tow the line and fall into place as HE decides I should...well I'm not worth even talking to.
Where am I now?
I am miserable. I attend my alanon mtgs. I do my reading. I am doing "the next right thing" when I'm feeling sad, depressed or anxious.
I am slowly coming to see that he is who he is. That we may not be able to make it. That the only way we can is if I keep giving in to what he wants, when he wants it ..and I let him make all the decisions yet I shoulder all the responsibility for the consequences of those decisions and I am just not willing to do that anymore.
I am on the doorstep of Acceptance. I am seeing who he is. I see he loves me, I see that he's trying but I see that it's not enough.
I dream of living in a home of serenity. I dream of waking up alone. I dream of not playing 20 questions when every question is really a judgement not a quest for information.
I dream of a different life.
One day I'll have it.
I have faith. I will get there. I just have to be patient with myself.

What happened to me is I woke up one morning and realized "I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE"...

What happened to be was a slow progression of my inner fire getting smaller and smaller with every hurt, every lie, and every mean word or action by my RExAB. I started to get sick all the time; became very depressed and went on a high dose of antidepressants; so fatigued that I was tired all the time and u even passed out while running on the treadmill and was taken to the hospital. A side not...my RExAB signed the hospital discharge papers that he would watch me for 24 hours as u had a concussion and needed to watch for certain symptoms. What do you all think happened? He started a fight with me, left my house slammed the door and disappeared for the rest of the night. I called him as I felt dizzy and needed to go to urgent care like the paper said and he NEVER picked up the phone. So I took my self even though I wasn't suppose to drive. NOW you would think that would have been enough for me to leave but it wasn't. I didn't speak with him for a week but he worked his infamous A charm sent flowers, cards, he cried,said everything I wanted to hear and I took him back just to start the cycle all over again.
So when I had enough it was just one day hearing 3 phrases I've heard a thousand times from him and I was discusted, over it, and done. I don't regret it all all. I'm not saying it isn't hard sometimes as he's in recovery but has not really surrendered so he knows the lingo but it isn't sincere. A very dangerous combo to himself. I'm happy and safe alone versus scared, stressed, and sad with him.. We all deserve to fund joy peace and security we just need to give it to ourselves first.

Wow. there are so many good responses here! OP, I can relate to your story very much. I am 33 now. I have 3 young kids. My husband is an alcoholic. Like yours, he managed to work everyday and handle parts of his life well, so the decisions weren't as "obvious" as I would have liked. I posted here 2 years ago for the first time. I was well aware he was an alcoholic and I knew I couldn't change him and there was nothing I could do. But I was worried about what divorce would do to the kids and his actions weren't directly and obviously affecting the kids at that time, or so I thought. Well, it wasn't until about 6 months ago that I actually made him move out. The 3 A's that someone mentioned were right on the money. I was aware well over 2 years ago. I accepted it over the next year. And then I just needed a minor catalyst for the action. I thought the decision to actually divorce would be so hard, but I had done all the work and deciding all along. When the time came, I made the decision without a thought. In fact, it wasn't even a decision. There was nothing to decide. I knew with every fiber in my being what had to be done. And honestly, my kids were only 8, 6 and 5, but they did too. My story and his actions weren't nearly as "bad" as many others you read, but his actions crossed my boundaries and what I felt was best for my kids. Sorry to ramble, but in short, you'll know. I wish it hadn't taken so long, but if I had rushed it, it would have felt like a decision and I may have always doubted it. This was not a decision, there was only one path in the road and it was not with him. Good luck.

I have days like that...and then I do...

I say if you can get the heck out...do it.

Wish I had when it would have been easier and less painful years ago.

I personally would prefer the "burning bush" sign that anvil spoke of in the very first post. It sure would be easier! :)

The only thing that got me to "wake up" was realizing that by staying with my XAH, I was teaching my infant daughter that normal relationships involved codependence and abuse, and that she would probably grow up to repeat the same patterns as me because she wouldn't know any better. When that dawned on me, the first thought that came into my head was "No f*cking way". That's how I started my journey.