Have you ever heard of tough love? It was popular in the 80's me thinks. parents set clear boundaries for their kids. They locked the doors at a specified time that had been made clear to the kid....and other boundaries as well...
Then when the kid came home he was locked out. The parent had a location of a friend, neighbor or relative where the child could go. when the boundary was respected, they were allowed back home.


The truth is these particular kids have told me that their alcoholic mother packed up and moved a couple towns over and left them in a place alone.

They both are in secondary technical education and are going to school while still bouncing from house to house.

I don't know if the alcoholic mother bit is true, but i know for a fact they are in school and have expressed determination to see it through. They make it every day no matter where they have slept the night before and more often than not walk to school.

They clearly are trying to help themselves. I sure as hell dont see givng them food, shower, and an occasional bed as enabling. these kids are immature brats at worst. punks at best. If they were thugs, you might have a point.

Since they are helping themselves, while being punk kids. I fail to see what behavior I am enabling. these kids will outgrow this in time. They eventually will get tired of this life.

The sticking with school at all costs thing is clearly an indicator of that.

i think you are confused on the issue.

[QUOTE=passionfruit;2993400]
When I felt weak, I came on here and said so. people responded. When i was struggling with a concept or struggling with a change I needed to make or understand, I came on here and said so. People gave me tools to help myself. I USED THEM.

QUOTE]

I like that Passionfruit. My motto in life is "Smart people utilize their resources."

Seems to me, you're pretty smart! :You_Rock_

I don't understand why you are putting down & picking on people who are weak & struggling just because you are strong & seem to have it all together. I'm happy for you, but can't you just have enough compassion or kindness not to judge & kick people who are down? Everybody can't be as strong or matter-of-fact as you. Maybe they want to, but just can't seem to find the strength that they need? Why do you want to make them feel bad about themselves on top of everything else they are dealing with? I'm not meaning to offend you but you don't seem to mind offending anyone else. Where's your compassion?

I clicked on this thread to see if Passionfruit was in a better mood yet. Won't be making that mistake again.

Has it ever occurred to anyone participating in this thread that a newcomer might read it, and decide not to share their story or ask for help in fear of being perceived as weak, illogical, stupid, or a 'crybaby'?

Just a thought. I know if I was new here, clicked on this thread, and read some of the things being said here, I would never have opened up and asked for help.

Passionfruit, you are obviously better, smarter, and stronger than others. You figured things out, stuck to your guns, and made the changes you had to in order to give yourself a better life. Just because others have more trouble than you did, doesn't make them any less of human beings. Just different. Degrading others for not being able to do what you did is wrong.

:c029:

OK, PF, recovery, like enlightenment only comes when the recipient is ready. Before I came here I didn't even know recovery was possible. Some will come here and read and post for years before they 'get it'. That is their path, yours was different.

To everyone responding you have to remember just because someone is strong in their recovery doesn't mean what they are saying is useful for you. PF is walking her own path and presenting her own experience.

As I have seen posted here many times.

Take what you want, leave the rest.

kittykitty--i have the same concern... mainly because i started holding myself back from posting---so who knows how a newcomer would feel.

i always thought that when you were in a position of power, the virtuous thing to do was to be responsible... and certainly not put others down. it's like that whole scenario where you want to get "in" some exclusive place and so does everyone else--who you've been empathizing with, but when you finally get in... you shut the door behind you, laughing at everyone you left behind.

This is not a good forum for basing your posting on the opinions of others. It is a good place to feel free to vent without worry. Remember, they won't always get your posts and you won't always get theirs, especially when the other person is venting.

It is possible that she is projecting something she is dealing with on to other peoples posts.

"Take what you want and leave the rest" is more than a saying.

So, while I totally get the whole "do something or quit whining" thing in all aspects of life, I also like to embrace the whole "people are where they are, and I am not the judge of that" thing. Over time, I have begun to view these sorts of posts as an opportunity to practice my "non-Codie" skills. Not sure I'm doing a great job of that right now, because here I am responding :) But the point is, I don't have to take this post personally, and in fact, shouldn't...it is not about me...it is about the original poster. I can look at it and think, "wow, she's having a rotten day!". Or something's up with her recovery that needs addressing and I wish her well". But in no way is it about me...her declaring that her recovery process is somehow superior does not make it so...it is her opinion, and we all have them. Sometimes it can be hard not to accept things others say as truth, especially if it's being said with great confidence or authority, but it has served me well to sit with the statement for a bit and evaluate it before taking it on as a truth that requires action on my part. I hope this makes sense and also want to say that this is not intended as a slam against the original poster, but is just me sharing a mode of thinking that has helped me over time...

my thoughts on "tough love" is that i go to my long-time friends for that... the friends that haven't lived in the world we've all lived in--the ones with an outside perspective. with them, i expect a non-judgmental judgment precisely because they are giving me objective opinions.

i come to SR for not tough love but for compassion and understanding... for the subjective reality that we all shared... because after realizing that i cant just go to friends or family (since i dont know anyone that has dealth with alcoholism), i could come here among people that wouldnt judge my thought process and could understand the long journey it takes to deal with this particular kind of pain

I don't look at what other people post here as judgmental. Some are offering sympathy and support, others are offering experience and others strength or hope. Some are just venting.

When I read something here I look for how it helps my recovery. Sometimes it helps by pointing out that there is more than one way to do it. Sometimes it helps by giving me the opportunity to share. Sometimes it helps by letting me know that I am not alone in this. Sometimes it just doesn't help. When it doesn't help me I move on to another post.

Not all the posts are going to be useful, helpful or even interesting to you.

As someone said earlier think about this as an exercise in detachment.

:herewego

I decided to stop at the concession stand. lol

gentle hugs everyone
ke

I'm sort of responding to the OP and sort of talking to newcomers here.

When I first came to SR I knew I was done. I had known *I* was done for a long long time. I had actually already filed for divorce.

I was not complaining in real life because I did not have real life people to talk to. I was very isolated.

Some of my core values is that kids need both parents. You get married once and you work to stay married. Happiness isn't really necessary. You make a choice, you live with it. These were like tapes in my head, played all the time. I also did not have a childhood that I could hold up and use as a model of what was right. It was not a terrible childhood by any means, but it was not a good point of reference for what a healthy relationship or family looks like.

Over the years I had many tapes I played in my head. In time they changed a little. I would not let loose of my core values above so I played tapes that said "I have children with this man, I am making a choice to stay with him, I will accept that and BE HAPPY about that. I will MAKE it work." Lots of tapes that ingrained in me ideals that did not work with the reality of my life. So I had the reality that I tried to manage, and a fantasy in my head that I lived 'for' because I couldn't make it work any other way. If you asked me what my life was like I'd have two completely different sets of answers depending on if you asked me what I actually did during my day and the 'vision' I had of my family.

All this time life was getting more and more unmanageably. I denied and ignored more and more things that I knew were not right. The tapes shushed the voice inside me that was trying to tell me this was unacceptable.

So I stayed in that marriage 'by choice' for years after I was 'done'. I had four small children. I felt like if I left I would be throwing them under the bus to save myself. I actually still felt like that when I filed for divorce. I felt like I had to leave or lose my mind entirely but you see - that is such a rock bottom place for a mother to be. My children were not abused by their father so it took a bit of recovery for me to really see and understand the negative impacts of an alcoholic parent and the family dynamic. I knew that without the family unit their father would not step up and I wanted to protect them from that.

I came to SR extremely confused. The above it just my stuff. It doesn't even count the emotional manipulation by my ah, and the blanket of fear that lay over me all the time. My thinking was not clear. I didn't trust my gut feelings, my thoughts. I didn't know *how* to focus on myself. I could not even identify my basic needs. I couldn't find my inner voice and if I did, I didn't trust it. I did not trust my perceptions of my reality. I still go back and read my first threads here. Some were whining for sure but the responses (all varieties - some comforting, some sharing, some with hard line facts etc.) were ALL extremely valuable to me. They validated me. They educated me. They slowly but surely cleared my thinking.

I do not feel stronger for having chosen to stay, and live quietly with my choice, for so long. That nearly destroyed me. I do not feel stronger for having finally separated.

I do feel stronger for having lived through it. I feel stronger because I am choosing to walk a path that will lead to healthier ways of living with people. I pray that I will give my children better skills to take into adulthood with them and my quest for that helps me feel stronger.

Each person on this board is stepping onto the path of recovery. It doesn't matter if you run down it full speed or walk slowly and linger at certain points. What matters is that you keep walking.

Spent the weekend on the water in the hot lake sun.

I am home now.

Nothing changes a person like doing.

Laying in the hot sun, (burned a bit) jumping in the cool water, cooking over a campfire, eating great food, drinking an ice cold ****, and hanging out with friends and family.

I love it!:c031:

Ok, now i'm jealous... i had a pool this weekend, but it's just not the same without a boat and a campfire. Glad you had an awesome weekend!

I spent the afternoon and evening at my daughters place playing with the grandkids and eating a great meal.

Life is good.

Everyone's "enough" is different. What some people can figure out in 6 months or 2 years might take another person 4 years or 20 years to realise.