I appreciate your perspective on this. Mine's a bit different. I have seen my AH go from being proud of himself for being well respected at work, being proud of the work he did, working hard at it and feeling good for doing so to acting like he doesn't care, having an AP class taken away and has decided that being the "class clown" is a good way to mask embarrassment at what he knows he's thrown away at work. I feel badly that this addiction of his has taken a lot of things he used to love and be proud of away from him. It's not co-dependent or judgemental in my book to care. The nice thing about life though is that we can all see things differently and approach situations differently. I know that I can care about this and him and still know that it's his issue to solve. For a long time I couldn't do the latter part. I think it's called detaching with love. It's not judging what is best for him when it's his life and the things he chose and the things he loved and was proud of that I am sad to see him throwing away. He's throwing away things he chose that made him happy at one time and that's what is sad... The further removed from real life he gets, the more he tosses more things aside. If caring about that from afar without trying to fix it makes me bad then I'll take it. That's just compassion in my world.

WTBH, you not only defend yourself, you defend him. You are still trying to play fair and he is NOT playing fair and has no intention of playing fair. You still allow him to corral you into discussions. Stop discussing things with him. Get a lawyer and let HIM do the discussing. I still say that you are making this a lot harder than it has to be. If your main concern is your children, and I believe it is, then become the mama bear and do whatever is necessary to protect them. Bottom line...get an attorney and stop discussing things with your husband, discuss them with your attorney.

by setting an example for your kids, I meant you are showing them how to be very passive...How would you feel if later on your daughter got involved with this same type of marriage or relationship? How would you feel if someone physically harmed her?

didn't you let him move back in with you last week by being manipulative? he doesn't give you an iota of respect.

I think compassion and empathy should be reserved for those who also practice it.....(I learned the hard way not to be my X's doormat)

In my world, detaching with love includes respecting another person's choices, whether I agree with them or not. There is a big difference between compassion and pity.

L

I am defending him? I didn't think so. And yes I know that Sat was ridiculous. That was my point in posting. I SEE that it was my "relapse" of getting into a conversation at all with him. I wasn't posting this to say "hey look at how great this was that I did this". It was me saying "ugh, one step back but at least I'm seeing it and extracated myself from it". I came here instead of talking to him and got it all out...

I spoke to a family lawyer today. I have no money to pay a lawyer right now - quite literally, none. So I either need to wait until I find a job to file or do it on my own. I don't think doing it on my own is a wise move so AH is moving out (funded by his parents) and we will live separately until I have a job and then I will file.

I will continue to cross paths with him bc of the girls and frankly each time he acts like an idiot it just gives me more info for my journal which I have been told will be very useful in terms of expressing lingering concerns about unsupervised visitation with the girls...

I probably should have come here ages ago so that you'd have seen how bad things were and how stuck I had myself. To you this might look like a lack of progress or not fast enough or good enough but for me this is moving fwd as best I can right now.

Before we divorce we need to figure out what to do with our house. We are meeting with a realtor later this week to talk about listing it or a short sale... There's a lot of logistics involved and some I can deal with without a lawyer. If AH and I can agree to sell the house, I will move to my mom's with the girls, he will rent whatever he rents with his parents money and that is step one... I am not going to divorce him while I am unemployed bc that opens the door way too wide for him to say that he's the one the girls should live with since I have no way to support them. There's a lot more at play here than just "file and be done".

I appreciate your concern that I am making this harder than I need to and I will think about that... but I think that you being unaware of all the things at play and not being in my shoes makes it easier to see it more simplistically than it is...

Losing my job threw a monkey wrench in my plans and so I am regrouping and trying to sort out the past course of action that keeps me being the stable custodial parent and doesn't leave me with a house I can't afford alone...

I agree and I have compassion, not pity. Seems to me that you are judging my choice to have compassion for him, no?

I didn't say I didn't respect his chocies. I neither respect nor don't respect his choices. I see him throwing away things he's worked hard for and don't see that as a choice he is making but rather a result of addiction. I wouldn't want to be battling the addiction he is and I have compassion for all that it is taking from him. Pity would be me continuing to try and fix him or save him and I am doing neither.

Is he doing anything, I mean really doing anything about his "addiction?" Some people are just jerks, whether they have an addiction or not. Wring the alcohol out of an asshat and you still have an asshat.

I thought you had a new job lined up in your previous school in Mass and were moving????? did that fall through???

or if I'm confusing you with someone else, I apologize....it's difficult for me to remember who is who without an avatar.

by setting an example for your kids, I meant you are showing them how to be very passive...How would you feel if later on your daughter got involved with this same type of marriage or relationship? How would you feel if someone physically harmed her?


Hmmm, I don't see it that way. I have been very passive for a long time but I am not anymore. The girls are seeing me actively tell him that he is not to talk to me X way and hear me ask him to leave if he can't stop. There are a lot of things that I do, don't do, say, don't accept, stand up for that I never did. I don't want the girls seeing this marriage as an ex of what they aspire to and I am removing myself from it as fast as I can. In the meantime they are seeing me stand up for myself and speak up and be calm but direct and that's not passive at all.

didn't you let him move back in with you last week by being manipulative? he doesn't give you an iota of respect.


Yup, I did. I have nothing legal saying he can't sleep here and after I was released from the hospital it was with the condition that I not be here alone and so while he weaseled his way in, I am currently not seeing him anymore than I was when he was sleeping elsewhere... He is here after 10 each night and was around this Sat only after the girls T appt.

I think compassion and empathy should be reserved for those who also practice it.....(I learned the hard way not to be my X's doormat)


I don't believe this but that's just me... I think that everyone deserves compassion. I am not being a doormat at all. I used to think that compassion and caring meant taking whatever he dished but now I have compassion but I don't hesitate to tell him what I won't tolerate and to stick to my boundaries...

I'm not judging you for having compassion. (Although I still think it's more like pity.) What I'm trying to point out is that you are so very wrapped up in him, his choices, his addiction, what he's throwing away, etc. And it's obvious to me that all these "detached" conversations you keep having with him are still attempts to get him to "see the light." Albeit in new, more enlightened ways.

I know you think I have no idea what it's like. What your life was like before, what it's like now, all the complications you face. But, I recognize your behavior because it was my behavior approximately 5 years ago.

You are still clinging to the hope that he will "get it." You still think you can change him. I hope for you that you reach acceptance and letting go one day soon. Because even though you are going through the motions, you haven't let go. But, I promise you it will be a huge relief when you do. :)

They say everything we codependents let go of has claw marks all over it.........

L

I have no idea if he is doing anything or not. What he tells me (I do not ask) is that he is attending aa nightly, and has outpatient rehab 2 days a week.

I haven't worried or paid attention to his meeting schedule or whatever he might want to tell me about how much he is changing in a few weeks. I told him I didn't want to hear about it and would base what I thought on actions. That was the end of that conversation.

I don't think alcohol is the whole issue with him. I think he is abusive and has an attitude about women and marriage he adopted from his parents (dad bossed everyone around and mom told everyone to do whatever dad said and appeased him silently) and unless he does some miracle changing, he's likely to turn into the 2011 version of his dad pretty soon.

You are still clinging to the hope that he will "get it." You still think you can change him. I hope for you that you reach acceptance and letting go one day soon. Because even though you are going through the motions, you haven't let go.

I agree 100%.

NOW I AM getting fed up. Let's see. Here's what I read in this "I know you better than you know yourself, I know you are saying this but I really think you mean this, you don't see this but I do...."

Honestly, this is the same crap I get from my AH.

Actually you are and this statement above proves my point for me. I tell you precisely how I feel and explain it and you tell me that you know better than I what I feel. That's actually something outlined in the Why Does He (or She) Do That book... Don't believe what I say, thats fine. But I intend to continue to trust what I know and I, not you, know how I feel. If my words aren't good enough for you to believe then stop reading.

All your latest posts are the result of me saying that on Easter, my brother who works with AH told me he was making an a$$ of himself at work. That doesn't look to me like I am wrapped up in him. But think what you want.

This really pisses me off. How do you think you know me and know that what I am doing is really trying to get him to still "see the light". I'm not and I will not continue to defend or prove myself to you. There are plenty of people on here who on other posts I've made recently (and who apparently have read what I've said without analyzing or judging or looking to poke holes) who "get" what I am doing for ME. I am not trying to change him and I'm really frustrated by the fact that I am working really hard at changing ingrained behaviors and had a lightbulb moment I guess a week or so ago and you choose to ignore 99% of what I say and cling to those things that fit your "analysis". Again, believe what you want. As for "all these detached conversations" I am not sure what you are referring to. I talked to him idiotically on Sat (kind of like I am idiotically defending myself to someone very much like him right now) and prior to that told him I was done and filing for divorce and told him that it was about me and not him. How that is me wrapped up with him and trying to get him to change is beyond me. I think perhaps it is time for YOU to focus on you instead of me. Maybe some of what you are doing is projection?

No you actually don't "recognize" my behavior bc your posts tonight show me that you haven't read what I've written. You are reading between the lines, making judgements and not taking what I say at face value. If you were here in my house you'd see something different than your haughty analysis of me and you'd need to apologize. It's all good though. You are getting something out of analyzing me and if it is helping you continue to do so.

I think you ought to go on a search of my recent posts other than this one and see for yourself that your analysis here is totally off. I am not clinging to that hope and I resent the fact that you are telling me that you know what I feel and think. Really?!?!?!?!

To say that this is a pompous and condescending remark doesn't even begin. You clearly have a vested interest (avoiding yourself perhaps) in believing what you have diagnosed me with above. That's fine. It doesn't make it true and I'd prefer that if you can't read what I write and take it at face value and need instead to analyze, pick apart and tell me that I haven't "really" done x, y or z, that you keep that to yourself-- This is far too similar to the conversations in years past with AH. I say one thing and he is determined to convince me that I actually think or feel or am doing something else. It's madening and frankly quite mentally abusive. Please stop. Reading what I say and commenting on it is one thing. Reading what I say and telling me that "you are going through the motions but haven't really let go" is pompous. Aren't you the one who just posted about "who am I to judge?" I think that you do quite a lot of that actually.

Okay so then what's pity... I dont have a strong desire to take the suffering away. I have the first part of the definition.

A lot of you seem very invested in proving to me? yourselves? that your analysis of me is right.

How about reading what I am writing and taking what I am saying at face value?

Is that a problem for some reason?

God, I wish I had the ability to know better than others what it is I myself was thinking.

Where exactly are you seeing (if you have bothered to read all of what I have posted lately) my desire to make him change still?

It is really eerie bordering on creepy to me how invested a few of you are in proving to me that what I am saying is not what I mean or how I feel.

Alcoholics (even those who are allegedly sober) have a tendency (from what I've learned) to tell others that they know better than everyone else....

Sound familiar? I have not once posted to anyone and said "I know better than you" but that's been the entirety of most of the posts from you and LaTeeDa tonight.

I think that might be something you want to look at.

Telling people that what they are saying isn't accurate and that you know better and reading between the lines and saying "I hear you saying this but I know better and you really don't mean it" is the kind of stuff that is outlined in books on abuse.

Please leave me alone unless you can find a way to do what most of this site do which is read what people say and respond to what they say and not give your analysis of what I mean when I am telling you I know what I mean.

Enough already. It's like having a conversation with my AH.

I'm done here. Good luck.

Thank you. Good luck to you too. You seem hellbent on convincing me of what you've already decided I am, what I believe, what I want and haven't chosen to read what I've actually written.

Then again maybe you have and whatever it is in you that needs to tell me, like my abusive AH does that you know better than me what I think and feel, sees me as a good person to do that to.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to continue to practice to stand up for myself.

I think you do not want to hear others opinions, you just want verification of your actions you are posting about.

I think you might want to read through these threads again when you are in a more clear frame of mind....

we only know what you post here and you send a mixed message, you are moving, not moving, living with mom, mom is not a good environment for kids, move back with Xhusband, move him out, move him in, complain that he is a jerk, then feel "compassion", new job in another state, then worry that you don't have a job, husband comes in after 10PM, then is there at 6PM, being abusive and still there...divorcing him , waiting on divorcing due to not work and worrying that he will get custody?????

it is not making much sense to me...all I can tell you from my experience is that after my Xhusband punched me in the side of the head and tried to choke me...I got a restraining order and I did not give a*compassionate* Flying flock if he was in my child's life or not....except for child support payment which continued until she was emancipated (finished grad school).

you are coming across as very defensive.

Closed by request of OP.

D