SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/)
-   Friends and Family of Alcoholics (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/)
-   -   My own relapse (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/225451-my-own-relapse.html)

wanttobehealthy 04-24-2011 11:34 AM

My own relapse
 
I got involved in a futile conversation with AH yesterday.

He came to the girls therapy appt and it came up that I have safety concerns about the girls being with him alone. He pretended he was okay with that and "understood" and then flipped out on me when we got home (and the girls were napping).

We went to "talk" outside (and I had my phone on record so I recorded the entire interaction) where I was told the following:

"You wouldn't have concerns if you'd just believe me and didn't go looking to find evidence. You're only upset and worried when you find evidence and if you didn't go looking for it we'd be happy" (yes, this is REALLY what he said!!!!)

He told me:

"Okay I've had a few beers here and there but I haven't been drunk since Jan so there's nothing for you to be concerned about".

I did try a few times, stupidly, to say that my concern is that as he is an alcoholic any amt of alcohol is an unsafe amt. I told him I was not making a judgement call and understood it was the addiction that was the issue and not him but that I could not be a good mom and turn a blind eye.

He informed me that his mother turned a blind eye plenty and he and his siblings had a great childhood and why didn't I care enough about our kids to give them a home with 2 parents. I told him that my recollection of what he'd told me for years was that his childhood wasn't that great and let it go at that.

I interacted with him far more than I should have but I did not get emotional, I did not flip out. He was yelling and cursing and off the wall and I walked away finally.

Today I was at my mom's for Easter and one of my brothers was here as well. He happens to teach with AH. He approached me and was hesitant but finally said he wanted to tell me that there were concerns at work about AH.

He is acting increasingly immature (during the "down" times) and told me that he's finding it increasingly difficult to deal with him bc he is SO different than the man they hired 6 yrs ago. I said I knew how he felt and that it was interesting (and validating in a sad way) to hear that what I see at home is similarly seen at work.

AH thinks he's funny and cool and some of the younger teachers are quite taken with him but the veteran teachers who he used to be friends with and had professional relationships with -- he's pretty much ditched those people.

Is it common that as alcoholism progresses, one's maturity level decreases? He's drinking much much less than he used to but mentally and emotionally he's far more immature than he has ever been and his rationalization and b.s. meter is off the charts.

He told me over and over yesterday that I think in "black and white" and I told him that while that must be frustrating to feel, the fact is that I think in black and white only about those things that ARE black and white. While he thinks that HONESTY is relative and there are exceptions (and he always has one) for when it's okay to lie, I don't see it that way. Same goes with drinking. Either you are drinking or you aren't-- but to him it's all relative. It's sad.

Oh, I also learned yesterday that the stories he'd been feeding me for a month about "insurance" not approving outpatient rehab full time were all lies. He chose to attend only part time and although he told me he wanted me to be a part of the family night component and claimed that the woman who runs the program never got back to him about whether that was okay or not- it turns out that the truth is that he told her he did not want me there and spun a story about how he got arrested that according to him resulted in the woman running the outpatient program telling him it would be best if I weren't a part of family night bc I am too toxic to him. All of this stuff stung. He's been pretending he wants me around, wants my support and constantly tells me how I am not supportive enough, but he has intentionally kept me from being a part of things where I could help him... He also told me (at least he was honest) that he doesn't want me to be a part of family night bc he doesn't want me to hear information that will make him be accountable in any way for anything I might hear. At least he was honest but it still sucked and hurt to hear.

suki44883 04-24-2011 11:47 AM

QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!

Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage.

lillamy 04-24-2011 11:56 AM


Is it common that as alcoholism progresses, one's maturity level decreases? He's drinking much much less than he used to but mentally and emotionally he's far more immature than he has ever been and his rationalization and b.s. meter is off the charts.
Don't know if it's common but I'm seeing the same thing. Even in the quality of the insults he hurls at me. Everything's becoming less mature.

As for the safety issues with the kids -- someone on another thread here talked about how strange it is that we (some of us, I know I did) will leave our children with a spouse that we know for a fact will be drunk when we get back... whereas we'd be livid and probably calling the cops if we hired a babysitter and came back to find her/him drunk. I ask myself on an almost daily basis, "Why would I accept this from (R)AXH when I would find it completely and utterly unacceptable from any other human in the universe?"

It is great that you're taking it up with the therapist, and I'm sorry your AH can't use the therapy sessions for what they're intended for, but unloaded on you afterwards instead. :(

wanttobehealthy 04-24-2011 01:31 PM

[QUOTE=lillamy;2945868]Don't know if it's common but I'm seeing the same thing. Even in the quality of the insults he hurls at me. Everything's becoming less mature.

Yeah he's getting less mature and nastier and it's really a lot harder to take...

"Why would I accept this from (R)AXH when I would find it completely and utterly unacceptable from any other human in the universe?"


My AH of course sees his circumstances as "terminally unique"-- if it were a stranger having a few beers when they were alone with the kids it'd be awful (even he agrees) but he believes bc he has a greater interest in the girls than a stranger, somehow his drinking with them alone is "safer"? I tend to think logically (except when it comes to this relationship at times) perhaps too logically at times so I get infuriated by the insanity of the logic (or lack thereof) in the arguments he throws at me... If he's aware of how insane he sounds then he's just a cruel a$$ and if he really believes what he says then he's insane. Either way it's not good.

BobbyJ 04-24-2011 01:58 PM

"terminally unique"--

or

"terminally ILL" = """ Without a True Recovery """"

This is what You, Me, and Them..."Will Ever Be" without recovery..Terminally Ill

Think of it this way:
2 Sick people laying in a bed of diesase, who's going to die first?
You or him. It's your choice to jump out the bed or just lay there...

Me, well I just jumped out the bed, fluffed his pillow
threw him a kiss and told him to sleep well....

PEACE is now within my soul.....

Carol Star 04-24-2011 02:05 PM

I think they are stuck in the age they started using until they sober up and then start to mature.

GettingBy 04-24-2011 02:09 PM

I've been told a similar line... "if you didn't go digging for stuff to be pissed about, you wouldn't be pissed so much. But you go digging because you just don't know how to be happy or content. You spend all sorts of time waiting for the other shoe to drop."

The thing that bothers me about that... Is there is some truth to it. The last part... Worrying about the other shoe dropping. All the other stuff? I don't have to do digging... It's all right there in my face. And as for happy, I'm all sorts of happy... Just not around him.


The one thing I've found most hopeful... I stopped talking to AH. It does me no-good to let him rant and rave and hurt me with his stinging barbs. He's in an ugly and resentful place and anything that comes out towards me has zero compassion in it. Sad, but true. A man I've spent 10 yrs of my life with, and have two children... And he has no love towards me. But, why should he anymore? I've filed papers to initiate a divorce.

So, I keep putting one foot in front of the other and move towards having my own life back.

Get the focus back on you and detach from him.

Fandy 04-24-2011 02:19 PM

you are DIVORCING HIM, right? why waste your energy? I wouldn't trust him as far as I couldpick him up and throw him...he has zero respect for you....

you do not HAVE to talk to him, you do not have to let him in your house, he saw his kids, he went to therapy....just tell him to LEAVE and close the door...WHO CARES what he spouts???

Karma will come, just don't keep letting him set you up...it only serves to get you worked up into a froth..and you want peace....don't you?

you are expending a lot of energy on him that you could use for your own well being.

wanttobehealthy 04-24-2011 03:44 PM

I am worried about the fact that I have no real proof to support why I don't want him being alone with the girls... I have a journal that I haven't kept religiously and yes, he was arrested, but he wasn't drunk at the time and he didn't assault the girls so that's not likely to help.

So, I guess my worry got the better of me on Sat and I got sucked in to talking about my worries with him which was insane and stupid of me...

LaTeeDa 04-24-2011 04:08 PM


Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy (Post 2946045)
I am worried about the fact that I have no real proof to support why I don't want him being alone with the girls... I have a journal that I haven't kept religiously and yes, he was arrested, but he wasn't drunk at the time and he didn't assault the girls so that's not likely to help.

Didn't you say that the therapist agrees? That's a huge amount of "proof" right there.

L

Fandy 04-24-2011 04:18 PM

he is manipulative, just remember that and do not give him a chance to get his foot in your space.

Paintbaby 04-24-2011 04:24 PM

All I could hear(read) in his side of the conversation is "ME. Me, me, me, me, me. ME ME ME. And me. By the way, MEEEEEEEE!"

Self-serving and manipulative doesn't even begin to describe it.

wanttobehealthy 04-24-2011 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by LaTeeDa (Post 2946060)
Didn't you say that the therapist agrees? That's a huge amount of "proof" right there.

L


Yes she has said to me in private that I ought to have a journal and she doesn't think he should be alone with the girls (she said that with him there too actually) but she told us the 1st time we saw her that she does NOT get involved in family court unless subpeonaed by the court and in that case she just gives notes on the girls and doesn't offer her opinion. So, it's great that she has the opinions she does that she is sharing with me but she won't be a witness for me.

stella27 04-24-2011 04:43 PM


Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy (Post 2946084)
Yes she has said to me in private that I ought to have a journal and she doesn't think he should be alone with the girls (she said that with him there too actually) but she told us the 1st time we saw her that she does NOT get involved in family court unless subpeonaed by the court and in that case she just gives notes on the girls and doesn't offer her opinion. So, it's great that she has the opinions she does that she is sharing with me but she won't be a witness for me.

your lawyer issues the subpoena that comes from the court, and she will answer whatever your lawyer asks her, when the judge instructs her to do so.

wanttobehealthy 04-24-2011 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by stella27 (Post 2946092)
your lawyer issues the subpoena that comes from the court, and she will answer whatever your lawyer asks her, when the judge instructs her to do so.


Hmmm, good to know. Because she was pretty to the point about this issue right off the bat (since she works with kids exclusively and lots of families with addiction I imagine she gets put in the middle a LOT).

I appreciate the info Stella...

Alone22 04-24-2011 05:54 PM

I have an AH who seems to be mentally lowering his age over time too. His arguments get less and less rational, more and more self centered and he reminds me of a teenager. Teenagers can't see past themselves, lie to get what they want, and think their behavior is perfectly acceptable. What reasonable adult sneaks alcohol at Christmas in the pantry and then talks about all the other alcoholics in the room like he is in recovery? He must think I am blind or stupid, but hello I know what you are doing even if I don't know exactly when you are doing it!


Don't know if it's common but I'm seeing the same thing. Even in the quality of the insults he hurls at me. Everything's becoming less mature. This statement really hits home!

You are a great mom to put your kids safety first. Hopefully the court system will agree too.

Cyranoak 04-25-2011 03:28 PM

...and you are with him because???

Is it possible you are prolonging the inevitable, and damaging yourself and your children in the process? Do you really see him, and the situation, getting better?

Take what you want and leave the rest.

Cyranoak

sandrawg 04-25-2011 03:34 PM

This is true. I've heard this COUNTLESS times.

My exabf was stuck at age 14 for sure. One of the last times I got mad at him for being drunk. I wasn't around him..he was texting me. And he kept saying "D-uh".

For ex., I was talking about a photo shoot I did and he writes "I totally need to see the photos, D-UH."

"We're not supposed to be talking now, D-UH."

I was like huh? Are you hanging out with a teenage girl or something?

He admitted the next day he was out partying with his friends. But of course I was being unreasonable, because it's not like he was being an ANGRY or violent drunk, like he gets sometimes.

*roling eyes*


Originally Posted by Carol Star (Post 2945958)
I think they are stuck in the age they started using until they sober up and then start to mature.


sandrawg 04-25-2011 03:38 PM

In other words, he wants you to just stay out of his business so he can go about his merry way destroying himself and your family. Wonderful way to conduct a relationship!!


Originally Posted by GettingBy (Post 2945963)
I've been told a similar line... "if you didn't go digging for stuff to be pissed about, you wouldn't be pissed so much. But you go digging because you just don't know how to be happy or content. You spend all sorts of time waiting for the other shoe to drop."

The thing that bothers me about that... Is there is some truth to it. The last part... Worrying about the other shoe dropping. All the other stuff? I don't have to do digging... It's all right there in my face. And as for happy, I'm all sorts of happy... Just not around him.


The one thing I've found most hopeful... I stopped talking to AH. It does me no-good to let him rant and rave and hurt me with his stinging barbs. He's in an ugly and resentful place and anything that comes out towards me has zero compassion in it. Sad, but true. A man I've spent 10 yrs of my life with, and have two children... And he has no love towards me. But, why should he anymore? I've filed papers to initiate a divorce.

So, I keep putting one foot in front of the other and move towards having my own life back.

Get the focus back on you and detach from him.


Carol Star 04-25-2011 04:12 PM

I had a friend I know loves me look at me when I was still with my X and said " you are not a victim you are a volunteer" !.......yep.......I was. WAS.

wanttobehealthy 04-25-2011 04:21 PM

Cyranoak- I am in the process of getting divorced. I just "decided" that for good last week and much as I'd like to snap my fingers and have it be done and over, it's not. The good news is that while I let it get to me for a bit on Sat, I am over it, doing my own thing and not going to get off the track I am on. I know he will try but I am determined and know what my plan is.

Sandrawg- My brother who works with him was telling me yesterday that when he comes into a room of their mutual colleagues at work now (my AH that is) he makes farting noises or says something juvenile and most people laugh but there are a few people who have known him for a long time who have spoken separately and are uncomfortable about what a different person/immature idiot he's turned into at work.
And AH doesn't have a clue. It makes me sad for him. I'd like to save him from embarrassing himself further but if I were to say anything about this to him it would just be a 3 ring circus with him flipping out on me..

suki44883 04-25-2011 04:23 PM

I know you think I'm harsh, but I just want to say one more thing. You need to stop feeling sorry for him.

wanttobehealthy 04-25-2011 04:34 PM

Suki.


I know you think I'm harsh,
Huh? I'm confused bc I can't recall saying this to you or thinking it... What this reads like is kind of like the mind reading I get from my AH. When with regard to this issue did I say that? I'm genuinely confused... I am pretty sure I posted something last week saying I appreciated the direct advice/remarks and that even if I don't like it in the moment, there are things I need to hear-- I can find the link if you want? I'm sorry you feel I think you are harsh. That's not a reflection of what I actually think or feel though so maybe it's something you are worried about?


but I just want to say one more thing. You need to stop feeling sorry for him.
Ummmm, I don't. If it comes off that way I understand your remark above and I'd agree. I feel sad that he is throwing away a career, his life, his family but it's his call. I don't feel sorry for him. If I have mis-stated what I think/feel, I hope this clears it up... I think that hearing how he's gone from being respected at work to being seen as a liability is sad and whether he were my spouse or not I'd feel sad that someone had done that to themself. But I don't think (for me at least) that that's the same as feeling sorry for him.

Fandy 04-25-2011 04:37 PM

why would you want to "save him from embarrassing himself further"???? didn't he do actual physical harm to you at one point??? (if i have the wrong person please excuse my error). why do you care if he makes fart noises at work? why would you even dream of telling him what YOU think he is doing wrong????

you put a lot of energy into his issues...you have to figure out why you feel the need to do this....give him enough rope and he'll hang himself....but don't get involved with his problems.

you are going to have separate lives...you need to live your own. you are joined by the kids, and their welfare. set a good example.

suki44883 04-25-2011 04:38 PM

And AH doesn't have a clue. It makes me sad for him. I'd like to save him from embarrassing himself further but if I were to say anything about this to him it would just be a 3 ring circus with him flipping out on me..

There's where I got the idea.

LaTeeDa 04-25-2011 04:38 PM


Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy (Post 2947352)
I'd like to save him from embarrassing himself further

This is the definition of codependence.

I wanted to save my AH from:
Embarrassing himself
Embarrassing me
Drinking himself to death
Financial ruin
Legal consequences

And on and on and on.

I thought pretty highly of myself to envision that I was his savior. Ha. Turns out it took all I could muster to save myself. Guess I wasn't as powerful as I thought. ;)

Life's a lot easier since I hung up the superhero cape.

L

wanttobehealthy 04-25-2011 04:51 PM


And AH doesn't have a clue. It makes me sad for him. I'd like to save him from embarrassing himself further but if I were to say anything about this to him it would just be a 3 ring circus with him flipping out on me..

There's where I got the idea.
Okay- match point. You win. :) I am still confused about "I know you think I am harsh" though...

My whole point is that I DON'T see myself as needing to save him anymore-- I know it's unhealthy and I won't do it. The BUT and all that preceded that sentence and came after sort of explained that... If you want to find "proof" to prove a point that's fine but my point is that I know where my head is at and there's nothing I am thinking or feeling that has me worried about fixing or saving him anymore....

I guess if you read what I am saying as a whole you'd see the bigger picture but I am getting a bit into territory of defending myself and I'm not interested in doing that.

Saying that I would LIKE to but have NO INTENTION of keeping my H from embarrassing himself further doesn't sound co-dependent to me. It sounds like someone who is seeing what my knee jerk rxn is and recognizing it's unhealthy and sharing that.

Is there really anyone here who sees their spouse destroying their professional reputation and doesn't feel a twinge of sorrow for what that person is doing to themself?

wanttobehealthy 04-25-2011 04:56 PM

[QUOTE=Fandy;2947372]why would you want to "save him from embarrassing himself further"????


Ummmm because I am a human being who gets no joy out of seeing people make fools of themselves?

Maybe my choice of words was poor. My sentiment was that I don't feel HAPPY knowing that he's making a fool of himself and wish he weren't but I can't do a damn thing about it. Is that clearer?


you put a lot of energy into his issues...you have to figure out why you feel the need to do this....give him enough rope and he'll hang himself....but don't get involved with his problems.
Well I guess I disagree. I want my kids to have a father in their life and I don't want to give him enough rope to hang himself. I want to focus on me being healthy and not keep doing what I'd done for a long time and whether any of you see that that's changed or not, I know it has.


you are going to have separate lives...you need to live your own. you are joined by the kids, and their welfare. set a good example.
Where am I not setting a good example? I am kind of confused here...

LaTeeDa 04-25-2011 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy (Post 2947391)
Is there really anyone here who sees their spouse destroying their professional reputation and doesn't feel a twinge of sorrow for what that person is doing to themself?

Yes.

I realized that it was pretty self-righteous of me to determine that he was living his life "wrong." Who am I to say what is right or wrong for someone else? It's not my place to judge others or to feel pity for them based on them not living up to my standards of conduct.

My place is to determine who I want in my life based on my principles and values. Not to determine how someone else should conduct their life. We each have our own path.

L


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:28 AM.