OH good advice your are sooooooooooooo right!

Just as King Canute could not stop the tide coming in, neither can you stop him drinking, suiciding, losing his job, or whatever.

Holding you as his emotional scapegoat, hostage is not done from love, but from his need to hang on to someone, for his own purposes.

If he calls with the suicide ploy again, tell him you are calling emergency services, hang up and do it. Leave him to those who cope with this sort of thing day after day, and in the hands of God.

God bless

KRK, thanks :)

Jadmack & freedom1990, I think that's exactly what I'd do next time, god forbid there is a next time. But what if it ruins his career? If work find out about it? It'll be on me... I'll be the one who ruined the only thing going for him.

Small update: since moving back to near all his old haunts.. the cutting down on drinking has stopped and he's drinking for hours every evening again. Knew this would happen. Don't know how I feel to be honest... it starts off angry.. upset.. then this kind of numbness like my mind just gives up on him and on us.

Why do you think you are so powerful? That's crazy. Let him feel the consequences for his actions. You are not his mother or his God. You are not in control of his life. if you were, it wouldn't be such a mess now, would it? All his problems would be fixed and he would be the perfect man for you - with no alcoholism.

You are simply a girl who's life and emotions are swirling out of control because she is focused on trying to control something she has no control over.

Allow him the dignity of dealing with his own problems. Or he may never have a chance at getting sober.

Do you attend Alanon? Do YOU work a program for your codependency?

I can't control it anymore. I find it hard to speak to him wheni know he's been drinking. But according to him this makes him worse.. he says that he doesn't deserve my silence.

But if i speak, i'll just get angry. He went for a drink today and i left him to it... car journey back was in silence... he obv continued to drink once i dropped him off as i've started to receive the text messages.

His last text i just receved was that the only thing keeping him alive is guilt. I know from what hes said in the past he means guilt that his family woud be left in despair if he commit suicide and thats the only thing stopping him from doing it.

Saturday.. we had absolutley great weather n all i wanted to do was sit in a park n relax with him.. all he wanted to do was find a beer garden n drink. So i left him to it.. if we talk about it, i'm not dealing with it correctly, if i leave him alone when he wants to drink, I'm not dealing with it correctly.

I can't take this anymore.. he continues to drink n drink. i'm falling apart. I feel so let down all the time. How can someone hate themselves so much enough they want to kill themselves.. when really theres actually nothing wrong with him other than a curable addiction? I dont get this anymore.

Skope, I so know how you are feeling. I am feeling pretty devastated myself today, and for some of the same reasons. I will tell you the only thing that I think is keeping me sane is not having any contact with him. I also know how difficult that is, it has been incredibly difficult for me. But when having contact with them is only hurting us further, something has to be done about it. Perhaps you could just take a baby step back from him for now. The thing is he is probably not going to make it easy on you, you will have to find your strength, mine has come from my HP. I say this because I honestly believe with all my heart that I wouldn't be able to do this on my own, it's just too big. Know we are here for you, and that you can make it through this. You have to figure out what boundaries you need to have with him, and be realistic when setting them, because he WILL test them. Stay strong and remember you are worth it!

Thank JB1.. I've read your post and I've been in exact same situation as you when me and my bf have one of our breaks up. I'd txt for any stupid reason.
I'm so glad you're being strong. I may go to church tomorrow.. try n find some strength. I've prayed so much for him to get better.

He's just txt me saying "goodbye forever".

It really sounds like he is trying to manipulate you. I can't really say it any better that Anvil did, so I will just say I completely agree! I know it's hard to resist him, but you have to decide that you come first, and then start behaving accordingly! Hang in there!

Ramblings.... thats so true. I tried very hard to stay calm with him yesterday although i was breaking down in tears.

We haven't seen or spoken to each other today at all today, apart from one text from him asking where i was.

He makes out that i have such a huuuge problem with him drinking just one pint, but this is not what i have a problem with. I have a problem with the fact that he needs this pint every day and some days, I never know when, the one will lead to two and so on. And this is when it effects him differently from other ppl... this is when the "pity party" comes out n the depression is at it's most obvious.

Be glad you don't get it, because you'd have to be an alcoholic yourself to get it.

I was so uncomfortable in my skin when I wasn't drinking that it was painful.

Alcoholism is the disease that tells us alcoholics we don't have a disease. It's called denial.

If you're feeling let down now and falling apart, I guarantee the progression of his disease will compound that tenfold if you stay enmeshed with him.

You can't help him.

That was a big pill to swallow for me when I finally accepted that I could not help my alcoholic/addict daughter.

this is where boundaries come in.

have you thought about some boundaries you can set? there are many examples, but not interacting with him when he's been drinking is one very reasonable one. "...doesn't deserve your silence" is a manipulation.

The depression will never settle unless he deals with that first then i guess. Sometimes he's said to me he doesn't know if it's a case of he drinks cos he's depressed or he's depressed cos he drinks. Know two things tho, his counselling isn't regular enough and he's no way consistent with his medication. But he's doin nothin to change any of these.
We can talk about rationally n i'll feel like we've had a breakthru but nothin happens.

I thought the no contact when he'd been drinkin was good one altho hurt me cs it still not dealin with the actual problem. Do i tell him that's what i'm tryin to do? I did say that to him on the wkend and he just agreed and said "yea you're right that couples shouldn't do everythin together" n off he went to the beer garden! . How do i set the boundaries n what else can i do?

Also i eventually txt him last nite as had heard nothin n he just replied as normal as tho nothin is wrong. I don't even know whats goin on now, it's just left me confused.

I remember nights of utter ramblings on the phone. It could have been at 6pm, 12am, 3am etc crying out for help or on the other hand abusing me for not agreeing with something she had said. I would feel so guilty because I would hang up on her, Id ring her the next morning and guess what -'she didnt even remember calling me'
My point is, their emotional ramblings certainly get to us 'we are the sober ones - remember the conversation' so dont take too much too seriously. I guess you have to ask yourself how much you can possibly take because I can bet you, he can take alot more and it wont even matter to him in the morning. I remember the depression caused the drinking and the drinking caused the depression and the medication caused the depression and drinking, therefore, until he gets it right and seeks the help when hes ready, or that light comes on, nothing much will change.
best of luck JJ

Really great info, JJ.

My AH also suffers from depression. He avoided his Mom and family while Mom was terminally ill and was not there for her or the rest of his family during an extremely difficult time. Only one of several situations that have contributed to his depression and guilt. I don't think he'll be able to deal with any of it until after he has stopped drinking. The alcohol just fogs up the mind too much; there's no way for him to actually see that he still has a problem with her illness and passing.

I personally have to remember that boundaries are for ME. They're to help me determine what is and what is not acceptable behavior and what steps I'm willing or need to take to remove myself from those situations.

I've been having a difficult time trying to talk with AH about anything other than him just placating or blowing smoke. I get the "Doing OK." "I agree with that." when ever he does call. I could say "The sky is looking rather green with pink polka dots today." and he'll say "Yeah, you're right." I went through a phase where I thought conversing by e-mail would work - having a bit of distance between us, being able to actually word my statments the way I mean to, and perhaps he would feel safer and respond. Oh so wrong on so many levels. Mainly, my e-mails were so much easier to just delete, I'm certain without opening them, no response that way either...

I guess that's a really long way of saying that I don't feel there is a way to get a real response from an A who isn't ready to face reality.

Thank you for your replies.

He said the alcohol makes him happy... and he did make a great realisation though. he said that i've don't know the difference between him goin out to drink to have a good time n him drinking as a continuation of his problem with alcohol. Which is true. NIghts out are tainted cos I don't know how its goin to end.

We had a huuuge arguement last nite. Baddest for a long time. He kept changing the topic away from the alcohol and after having been on the phone for hours, he changes the topic to us and whats goin on with us and how i "hide my feelings and wont move in with him ad there fore the relationship isn't progressing"
He then came out with the comment "you go on about me being depressed and alcoholism, but look at your mother.. she's depressed and over eats" and i just lost it. startted crying so much over the whole convo and how he was just avoiding the subject, i ended up having a panic attack. Haven't gone into work today cos i look and feel awful.

He also said, I just remembered (sorry the convo with him was so manic), that my silence makes it worse in the sense that it makes him think "well f* you, i'm gonna keep it goin" He would rather i say ok thats your last one, stop now and we'll chill out together.
I can't do the right thing here.

Just because someone lays their problems at your feet, doesn't mean you have to pick them up.........

L

Anvilhead, thank you. I really needed to hear that. I shouldve ended the convo, but it was due to his change of subject i got so mad. I hate things being left.. i need to deal with it there n then n know the answer, but i also know hes not like that.

I've decided to go home for a week to my parents.. we have the week off work and altho me n him had planned to do something, i want to see my parents and my friends. I know this will not go down well with him, as one of his arguments against me is that i rely on my parents too much. Maybe i do.. but they are my support network, they raised me, they want the best for me. They're who i should be with.

you try and have a good visit with your parents. they love you most.

your man is gonna keep these circular discussions, with NO resolution, going indefinitely, is you ask me. there are just many, many commonalities - with or without depression. that's one of them.

he changes the subject to get the focus off of him.
he throws in YOUR behaviors, your mother's, the 90-year-old down the street who has two beers every single day - or whatever he thinks of -- for the same reason: to take the focus off of him. interesting that your silence hurts him, yet your discussions hurt him as well. hmmm, sounds like a no-win situation.

go have that visit, do some reflecting, and stay in touch with us, ok?

Thank you.

It looks like its heading towards the end of us. I'm so scared he'll meet someone else.. i know i shouldnt feel like this, but I love him. So very much.

Anvilhead, I know you're right, but that is really difficult to take in.. I can't imagine him with someone else..I can't imagine me with anyone else. but I know i deserve better.

my week away was good... but we did actually end up meeting up. And as usual, things were great... take him out the city away from his mates and the pubs and everythings great.

Back to work Monday.. and i said that we should maybe talk as things were still not resolved and basically i cant do this anymore. And i;m so wary of things gong back to normal.
After doing the classic topic change n tryng to get out of the situation... he then ended up getting stressed out n said all he wanted to do now was drink. So I felt guilty, that the one thing we're arguing about, makes him go and do it more. BUt as i could see it was getting heated, i suggested we leave it for tonite and talk tomorow. I feel that that was a big step for me as i hate unfinished business and will talk and talk til i get some sense out of him, but i can't face that anymore. So he left.
But evenually, as expected, came the drunken depressed txts.. first going on that everyone is against him.. i wasn't goin to fall for it, so pulled him up and said give me names. i recieved no reply to that but he txted to say "have u thought about if you're going to stick by me?"
That got me so mad, "stick by him"?! Isn't that exactly what i have been doing.. and him saying that makes me out like i'm not sticking by him. I wasn't goin to give in to his manipulative txts.. so said i'm not talkin about it now and esp after hes been out as i dont want to argue. He agreed initially, but then continued to send some dramatic txts.
But told him i'd had enough and goodnite.

I feel that was a big step for me, to just ignore him. I refused to fall prey to his txts, or to get upset n cry all night like i normally would.

I know this is oh so easy looking in from the outside and it must be frustrating on all fronts for you at the moment.

Can you see that you are not accepting him how he is right now?

Can you see how arrogant that might be?

Can you see how that plays right into his manipulative little paws?


And what unfinished business is there? That he won't change to be how you want him to be?

Next time he says that you are getting him so stressed out that he wants to drink, try saying "What a shame. Call me when you are sober" and then switch of your phone for the rest of the night and go and do something more productive.

Have you thought about why you don't feel that you are worth more than being in this situation?

Sorry, I'm doing something similar to what I am suggesting you are doing.

How can we help you, skope?

I am coming a little bit late to this discussion but I just wanted to say keep on posting Skope. And go back and reread what you post and the answers.

Have you read the book Co-Dependent no more by Melody Beattie? If not, go out to the bookstore and buy it today. (or the library, almost all libraries have it). And then take the week off and go see your parents and read it.

Wow aren't I the bossy one this morning. happyface: No but seriously. I picked up a copy of that book when I was at my lowest and it truly opened my eyes. I always new I had to take a step back but I never could. It helped me find my footing again, refocus.

No don't be sorry, any reply is beneficial to me I think.

I know I'm not accepting him.. i guess that is cos i know how he is sober. He's a great man, so kind and caring.. funny and genuine. When i first told my friends at work about him they said they knew exacttly what I meant about there being "just something about him".. their words were that he was one of those guys you could just tell was a nice guy.

But drunk...he's selfish and self pitying, self loathing. Critical.. makes excuses.

But we went out on a nite out at the weekend and he was a " good drunk"... you know, just a typical guy on a nite out, we had fun n there was no depressed talk etc.

Something I still dont know for sure, is he an alcoholic? He says he as a drink problem, not alcoholism. Is wanting a drink everyday classified as this? Needing a drink to destress, is that having a problem? I don't know.. maybe it's just me and something I'm not used to.

I've seen ppl refer to their family members as "dry drunks".. what is that?