What Do You Make of This?
 

Backstory:
As I was trying to maintain my NC with XABF, he contacted me and after about three weeks he contacted me with "<3" So I didn't respond..thought it out and wrote to him how much I cared, explained my actions that needed explaining (things ways in the past we never talked about), and told him to get help or never see me again. He tried to bend me, but I wouldn't..Told him to help, plain and simple. I've been trying to move on, but you all know how hard it is. This is still a person I love..

He contacted me this weekend via text - I wouldn't answer his call. He told me he's realized after all this time after not talking he's realized how much he's hurt the people he cares about. I was very skeptical and cautious. He said he wanted to take me out to dinner (which as crazy as it sounds, we never did things like that...our relationship was more like artist friends...hard to explain) which was one of the things I said if he was sober, we could have done. I was really shocked. He's never acted like that really. He seemed responsive...not drunk, lol.

So I said if you are trying to take sobriety seriously then we can talk - he said he wanted to apologize face to face. I said that would be nice. Then he started with all the "well, you hate me anyways, etc ,etc..blah blah" Testing me out sorta. I was very bad and I didn't trust what he was saying..that he would eventually ask me so we could plan for it. He's never done that so I couldn't imagine him taking the initiative. He said he trying really hard to "not be that guy" and taking "baby steps" towards sobriety.

Well last night I text him "Well let me know when you want to go. That would be nice." He didn't respond. It was pretty late and I put aside that initial panic I get if he doesn't respond..There have been very painful times when he would run away from me in the past. So I tried to just forget about it. Well still no response today so I just started to loose control...

And I said "are you doing that thing again where u ignore me?"
He said "no, i just feel asleep pretty early last night"
I lost it. I'm pretty sure I completely lost it. All of this anger has been killing me and I tried to remain calm, but I let him have it.

I said "so what? you weren't going to respond? Everything u say that isn't mean, is most likely a lie. And you haven't even really apologized, you've just asked if I still hate u! You have destroyed me (I know, its me, but for texting sake , ya no..) and all you can say is do u still hate me?!! Grow up!! All you're going to do is hurt me over and over. You're not even sober. Don't contact me. Let me be sad myself."

I got triggered really, really bad by the lack of responsiveness. I felt so scared, back in that hopeful place again. So unbelievably scared. And I just feel bad because I felt like he was trying to apologize and I just got impatient and frustrated that he wasn't being more aggressive about it.

I'm so raw still. Vulnerable. And the half attempt to win me back just really pisses me offfffff. And I know, no contact means no contact. But he was being sweet so I can him a chance to talk. That's the frustrating part. I was like I'm giving you an opportunity here to voice your regrets, and you're pretty much not taking it.

Whew? Did i really mess up here? Does anyone have experience/advice?

I feel better now. I don't really feel anything most of the time anymore, but I got really panicked and I hated that because it felt very out of control and irrational.

Does anyone have experience/advice

I had to go back on NO CONTACT a few times , before I was ready for NO CONTACT. There is a reason he is your ex Mary. MY STBXAH would would do that every time to see if I was still there for HIM and his disease.It is not good for them or us if we keep being there for them.

Is he in recovery? Would you be interested if he is not in recovery? True recovery takes committment and hard work. Even then real sobriety can take a long time to happen.

His lure worked. He got you talking again, did what he does again, got you angry again. As long as you continue to dance, he's going to keep playing the music. You can always go no contact again, but that means not explaining anything to him, not telling him what you are doing or why. No contact means NO CONTACT.

I know. This was the response I was expecting.

I was waiting for him to come to this realization, so I got excited. But yeah, its too soon. I feel like such an idiot. I started out tough I said "okay, you've come to that realization..what have you done about it?"

And from that moment. It shifted. I should have realized it. Its so hard to be tough! Because its something that I want to, so its easier to break that rule.

ARR. I just really believe that he will get better. But it doesn't matter because realistically, even if he is being honest, its still not enough time.

He was all like "Rome wasn't built in a day" and man...did I just role my eyes. #1. Don't get cute with me. #2. no **** #3. Did u just compare yourself to an empire? #4. right, but what are you doing NOW...?!


I guess I need to trust my judgement more. Its going to take more than suggestions and song lyrics to earn me!!! Gawsshhh Dangit!

thanks guys. Even not seeing him or talking to him. I've been having a hard time forgetting. I don't feel "relieved" like some people who post here do after cutting ties. I feel like my heart is no longer inside of me. So he's not there and I just got excited.

Should we be explaining why we are going NO CONTACT with our A's? I'm afraid to even bring up my exagf's drinking because she turns demonic and goes crazy if anyone merely mentions her alcoholism.

oh man marygoround,

numbers two and three!
:lmao
:You_Rock_

Can't explain anything to a brain eating zombie.
Just lets them close enough to swipe at you again.

Maybe it's because you haven't actually cut ties... No contact is more than just not talking to them.... you are still concentrating on him... what he's doing... how he's doing.... where he's doing.... when he's doing...etc.

I promise you the relief comes when you begin to concentrate on you.... what you're doing.... how you're doing.... where you're doing.... when you're doing....... etc.

That's what it took for me to feel "relieved".

Take care.

Sounds about right. You see, the Codie in me probably feels he needs to explain his actions. It's precisely that kind of thinking that our A's pray upon - the feeling that we need to take responsibility and make sure everyone is happy with our decision, when in reality we are the only person that needs to be happy with it. Difficult to wrap your head around entirely when you've been codie most of your life.

I've spent too long qualifying myself in my life. It's time to shed that behaviour forever.

Yes. Thank you Hammerhead. You are right. And I feel like ****. I'm angry, I'm sad. I'm unhappy. I just don't even care anymore, ya no? But I've got to get up and do something about it. I've definitely been spiraling downard for the most part as far as depression goes, but I have apt. this week.

I haven't been concentrated, cuz if it were up to me...I would stay in bed and stare at the wall. I know its bad cuz I really don't want to do anyyyything.
And spring is my favorite time of year, and I just don't even feel anything. Yeah, I didn't want to go this route again, but I need mental help. God, I'm just so angry and I know its just been turned inward.

thanks Wicked, That made me smile. I mean seriously...is it possible to be ego tripping and have low self-esteem at the same time?

And Duped, yeah I explained myself a lot. Especially in hopes he would explain himself back. But I mean, I was prticing the golden rule, but I guess that's codepedent lol.

Sweetie... don't get down on yourself... many people have been exactly where you are.... spiraling downward stops when you LET GO.... cuz they will drag you down with them..... use your wings to fly instead.

So be kind to yourself... you've been through a tough spot.... just remember to think of YOU and take care of YOU.

You are not alone.

MaryGo,

This was the red flag I saw when I read your O.P:

If someone told me they were taking "baby steps" or even "steps" for that matter, I would say "well, call me when you've arrived".

Don't think all is lost. This, too, was a lesson.

Sucks, don't it?


You do get one of these, though
:ghug3

So true Anvilhead. They either tread water in their growth or grow down.

Thank you guys. Thanks Coffee.

Yeah ya no, I'm gonna be okay. Its just really hard to pick myself up sometimes.

He seems to think that us being together needs to come first before he commits to sobriety. He's looking for some sort of guarantee that I'll be there. And that's not how it works. Thank God I have enough smarts now that I know there is nothing I can do.

He wants me to be his "new fix." That's not even healthy talk and I didn't believe. I just slipped, got engaged, and upset because yeah..I was expecting something to happen.

I know that I am not strong enough to maintain that slope of "no" contact right now. He may be headed in the right direction or not, but regardless I'm not ready to be tested. I started to go down fairytale lane again...and it bit me in the ass. He's young, I mean chances are he gets better or he doesn't. No one in their right mind would marry him. I have nothing to be in a hurry about.

But man, he threw those buzzwords around and although I remained strong verbally. I crumbled inside....the funny thing is I gave him those exact buzzwords myself when I "explained" myself. I thought since I never really enabled in the obvious or classic ways (i.e. money, rides, etc, etc) I was okay. I thought it would be okay to maintain the most distance I ever have with him, but all the while still being emotionally open with him at the same time. Hhahaha. That's not giving him an oppurtunity to earn me. I gave him a set up. Because I didn't think he could figure out to get help by himself.

You were right Suki from other thread...I have to make him question whether I would ever reconsider. I guess I'm afraid that would be too much for him. And really, the whole thing is still about the fact that I am utterly so afraid to loose him for good. Ahh! ******* pipedreams! They never die!!

He loves me, that has been made clear...so I can handle that, but what he does about it. Isn't up to me. He's so busy feeling sorry for himself STILL he can't even make amends properly. I was so good, and then as soon as I got a familiar taste...I knew it was all ******** pretty much. And he ******* knows I know too. He has nothing to say.

It should have been clear as day that he's not healthy yet when the first thing that came out of his mouth wasn't "I'm sorry."

I had a friend who became addicted and he tried desperately to make amends with me. I kind of brushed him off, but he kept saying "I'm sorry for everything I did. Please forgive me." And boy, we have a pretty nice friendship now. All because he didn't give up on pursuing my forgiveness. Lovely X over here...started to get cute the minute I started to sniff him out. Going as far as "what's the point if you're to get judgmental?" After I started to ask questions about said "baby steps."

I have a right to judge what company I keep, thank you.
God Moron! LOL, I guess that makes me the moron for falling for it! Arr.

:lmao
OMG there isn't a laughing smilie that's big enough for how hard I'm laughing right now.

Back to NC with you, mary. Find your serenity again.

You were right Suki from other thread...I have to make him question whether I would ever reconsider. I guess I'm afraid that would be too much for him. And really, the whole thing is still about the fact that I am utterly so afraid to loose him for good.

Well, I don't think I said that, but if it came out that way, I didn't mean for it to. You dont have to make him do or think anything. All you need to do is take care of YOU. When you engage in contact with him, sure it might get him to thinking, but it also keeps you involved in all the drama. No contact isn't so much for the addict/alcoholic, it is for YOU.

Yeah. Thank you.

What about parents who go no contact? I mean at what point can let them back in? Where's the line? Never? What if they are working sobriety when is it okay?

For some reason I can't detach from it in my head. I'm so pissed and I need help dealing with the anger and sadness.

I guess it doesn't matter. I haven't even let it go completely. ****!

Haha. Thanks anvil. Is that your dog? So cute! I keep getting thrown by ur new icon.

:You_Rock_
:lmao

I know, right? heehee

Listen to your panic. It is talking to you. You are not ready. HE still can trip you that easily.

And, quite frankly, he may have been lying about falling asleep. Mine will not call wj=hen loaded if he is trying to woo me back.

Step back, breathe, and regain your sense of self.

Hi Mary,

Sorry I wasn't here yesterday to respond more quickly.

Yes, I have been through this many times. I know my husband and I love each other and want to be together. I also have learned that he has a problem in learning how to live life without alcohol and I have a problem learning how to live my life without someone to take care of.

I am not sure if all his words are just words, or if he really means them. I am sure that he wants to mean itbut making actual change requires hard work. Have you ever worked really hard at changing some longstanding problem in your life? I have done two things really big in my life and I know how long it took me to get to that point and how hard it was to follow through. And when I did, I didn't tell anyone what I was doing - I just did it - and I didn't need anyone to notice - I noticed and all the reinforcement I needed -was me seeing that I was doing it.

I feel most days that I am right with you. I want things to work out. That relief others feel here - I don't get it either. Glad you said something b/c I have been trying to explain this to others. But when I am reminded that we are apart for one reason - I am reminded that we all have choices. He could choose to work things out with all his heart, soul and mind or he can stay away. He is obviously choosing to stay away and that should tell me something. It does not matter if it is what he wants or not -it is what he is doing. No judgements, a lot of hurt, not the one I want, but it is his life. My choice is in deciding what I will do.

And when I think about the relief part of earlier change process? It came little by little over time as I made progress and saw the results for me. Exercise your choices :ExeJump:

Kassie, I relate so much to your post. Loving each other, wanting to live a healthier life and one free from drugs. But God doesn't wave a magic wand even when they do put down the d.o.c. My ABF was afraid of losing me, plus he wanted to be clean and sober - for life, not just til he couldn't take it anymore. But some of the old behaviors are still present, and what I'm experiencing is that as I continue to become more healthy, even though he may be making progress, we are still at different "levels" of function, or mental health. My hope that he would "catch up" doesn't seem to be working because I have not stayed stagnant.

Mary, it's not enough, as you know. Even if right this second he wants sobriety, there is much more than needs happen, and that takes time.

I know all too well the feeling of wasted time waiting for someone who may or may not ever get there. Go live your life!!

Hi and so sorry you are going through this. I can relate.
I can only tell you for my situation, after his two failed rehab attempts and all the lying..that drove me deeper into to viscous cycle. I would get hope and then be let down and that made me spiral out of control. Had I had more Alanon under my belt..I would have walked away after the first time and told him to call me when he was sober for a year and saved myself a lot of misery and pain. I hurt no one but myself by not detaching.
I am Catholic so the thought of divorce really made me cringe..but I am over that. I have talked to the church and to priests and I have options. Even though I have filed for divorce a small part of me loves the dream we had.
I try to remind myself this is a sickness. But its treatable and my STXAH just wont stick to AA mtgs and footwork. He even told me he only went to rehab and meetings to win me back. My gut wouldnt let me go back and boy am I glad because if we were back together and I uncovered everything I now know, I may have gone for the knife in the kitchen. As usual, he told me all lies. Its so sad as we had it all, or so I thought. We got married and we had everything we could want. But then his disease kicked in full throttle and let me tell you..I am still trying to escape. Stick to your guns...if he ever really gets sober you will feel/see the difference and then make your decision but for now..live you life to the fullest because he may never get sober.

Ahh these replies were so nice to read. Thanks so much guys.

Yeah I am positive he would need lots of work even after he chooses sobriety.
I don't think he's had chance to heal after witnessing his mom get hit by a car @ age 8. So that's a long time to heal from. He basically needs to relearn everything about the way he communicates and copes. So DUH! he's just figured out exactly what I want to hear now. But I immediately saw his actions not matching up and it felt like being baited. So I exploded.

I guess because our relationship never got too serious ( I never let it because of the disease, well neither did he I guess, because he would run away)I wanted it so bad so I can see where we could go. I have kept my distance so carefully and as much as I could because I always knew it would never work, but yet invested so much hope for us. I've never met a creative person I was attracted to and we all know how charming they are to get what they want...

When people say he's no good for you it just pisses me off. And its because they're right. But I KNOW if he could just get help we could. I just know.
However, he hasn't, isn't and may never.

I don't really feel my self-worth is being validated by his choice or not...it's more a deep sadness for a loss. I'm have a very hard time moving on because this is something I believe in so strongly that I simply do not want to accept in the end we won't be together. I waited sadly. I waited patiently. I waited angrily. I waited impatiently. I feel angry and mad at myself for mistakes I have made and I've always been really hard on myself. I know I can't hold out for someone like that and so I'm just all nerves...I'm so tired of giving in that it seems I've become a bitch to nearly everyone around who needs ANYTHING.

He loves me and he's sorry. But that doesn't mean ****. I think he's just now realizing how serious I am and that means the end because in his mind sobriety isn't looking like an option. He's not ready.

I need to really really work hard on recreating my life in the sense of becoming fulfilled by completely removing him as much as I can MENTALLY
and finding myself. I really feel like I need to move or take a trip over seas, but $ is always something I stress over. I just want to be as far away from the campus we share as possible.

Now people ask me, how is K?
And as much as I like the opportunity to vent I really realized how this has taken over my life. Its broken up relationships I've tried to start, caused fights with friends, and made me loose focus on school. I can't imagine being married and having kids. I need to completely redefine.

I realize how my boundaries have been SO WEAK, that I've been like a piñata...going any which way he needs to swing. Bending over backwards not to do anything for him (I never allowed myself to go toooo far), but trying to subtly prove I'm worthy enough to choose sobriety. I KNOW intellectually of my self-worth, so that part is okay. But to realize the lies and the manipulation have just really broken my heart. I need to heal.
This is my time to heal too.

Hi M,

Just another reflection for you.

Your job is to be thinking about you and what you want and need.

He isn't thinking about you, your wants or your needs. He is thinking about himself.

I know that it is an illness, but usually the seriously ill people of the world still worry about how taking care of them can be a burden to us - showing the ability to think about others.

Ponder.

Everything u say that isn't mean, is most likely a lie.

I wish I'd had the opportunity to say this face to face to my ABF before he died.