my 8 year old
 

just told his father on the phone that he likes it better over at his house. Great...

This is the normal process of things, Trans. His father probably has candy or something. You know how kids are, they change their minds at the drop of a hat. Relax Sweetie, Deep breath. Your child is with you, which is exactly the right place.

or it may be that there are few restrictions in place. take it from someone with grown children, they do figure things out, and they know which are the sane ones, and the ones that did what they were supposed to in the child-rearing dept.

I don't know. His dads house is immaculate. YOu can find everything, easily. I yell at him sometimes, not lately. I mean, yes I"m not an alcoholic, but iI"m far from perfect. I dont' want to just assume it's not valid. It does make me feel like cryng though

Of course you're not perfect. Of course you feel like crying. Coffee's right on target, though. They do know where the stable parent is, the one they feel SAFE with, and that's important to children.

Your AH WILL use the children against you. Expect it. Think about how he's manipulated YOU, and these are innocent children. He'll tell them bad stuff about you. He'll do all kinds of cool things with them. He won't discipline them as you do. And they'll think; "Dad's so cool!"

But kids are smarter than we give them credit for. When they really need someone to depend on, which is most of the time in life, they'll come to you. After Dad promises 19 things, and delivers on one... or none... they'll know.

My 8 yo told me she'd rather live at her Nana's house after this last Christmas visitation.

Why I asked, well it's bigger and nicer. And her Nana tells her she can come to live there when she's 12, 'cause then the kid can decide. Thanks you cesspool of dysfunction. :gaah

I tell LMC until she's 18, I decide where she lives and that will be with me. End of story. Kids don't get to decide where they live because they are kids.

Also if they (kid) know it bothers you, you will hear it often just for their entertainment.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

He may also feel pressured by his father to say that.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

he's a KID.

He'll say anything for unlimited game time.
or candy.
or ... whatever else he's being allowed that 'all the other kids have' over there.

It's just another route ...

either your ex is manipulating him by being so lenient
(we all know how that goes - playing one parent off another)
or he's sayiong what he thinks his father WANTS to hear.

Anyhow - he's a KID ...

Well thanks everyone. I know you want me to feel better and much of what you say is true. I still feel like I should examine why he likes it better at Dads house (he told him that over the phone unprovoked by my AH, I was right there) and he's not being mean or manipulative. The other son would consider it, but this one is just speaking his mind.

Regardless, I appreciate your kind words and input. Last month he liked it here better, and yes, he's a kid. I attach all this other crap to it..

I did the same thing, hon.

That 'alienation' stuff works on them too.

My ex wo9uld leave my son standing by the window on a friday night
and not show up the whole weekend....
I'll NEVER forget him waiting there with his little packed suitcase...

then even after that hurt...

he'd tell me he preferred his dad.

We have to allow for the simple fact
that children don't have the life experience necessary
to make those kind of decisions.

They just want the parent to want them.

That's all.

Oh Barb that bought tears to my eyes imagining him waiting with the packed suitcase..... :0(

This disease sucks!! and trandform kids, god bless them are kids! and he is so blessed to have a mummy like you .....really he is.....here's hoping it all works out.......I would imagine that it still hurts though!.....

Thank goodness for SR where we can say what we feel.....it keeps me going in tough times....and other times too.....Phiz

I dont have any kids but ahh I also felt sad about the packed suitcase :( and about you feeling bad for some words... maybe you feel "less" than a good mother? if that's the case you need to remember all of what you do RIGHT (just keeping the man away from the household is enough in my book for you to be a SUPERMOM).

Also I thought my mom had done something wrong to "make" my dad leave us, but I recall very vividly when I was given my engineering diploma.. the speaker was very emotive and told us "lets clap, turn around to watch your parents, thanks to their efforts we are celebrating this day" well of course everyone felt like crying and some did. Dad may have spent money but my Mom was there seeing my bad experiences with guys and how I struggled with some subjects and how I achieved things and how I didnt sleep for projects (I am still not sleeping DAMN!!) and very often I would arrive tired and there she was with some warm soup, my descriptions are not that good but you know, that is when your heart is full of gratitude and you know WHO WAS THERE FOR YOU IN THE GOOD AND NOT SO GOOD and who wasn't. He is just a kid but as he grows up he will realize who was his companion and friend and took care and did the best she could... take deep breaths and let it pass like another cloud in the sky... HUGS!

Try to let it pass, transformie. Easy for us to say, but so true: Kids are, well, kids. He will grow up to be a great young man, and will love his mom forever. But I know it's hard not to read more into it than is there. :hug:

YOu're all so right.

Yes, I have mother issues. More so than I can even articulate right now on a Monday morning with little sleep.
TC your description is brilliant. Perfect.
Phiz, you said it so well. Thank goodness we can come here and say what we really mean.

And Barb thank you for helping me remember that I need to be the parent and support my child and guide him no matter what he is saying to me. Put aside my selfish issues.

I really needed all of this, all of you. Like always. We should rename this forum Friends And Family. Period.

Transformie,
You would tell me that he is just 8 and that he doesn't have the maturity or perspective to understand what he wants vs. what's best for him AND that he can't understand how his words kill you.

If you asked him if he wanted banana pudding for supper or a nice roasted chicken breast with green beans and mashed potatoes, which would he choose? He would take the dessert! Daddy is just the icing on his little cake. They are buddies; they probably play video games; they eat pizza; they stay up late; they sleep in their clothes and don't take a bath! It's one big slumber party. If you were 8, which would you pick?

I struggle with this myself. My oldest is 8, and Daddy, the party boy, is lots more fun than I am.

But you would tell me that he needs you to make the decisions for what's best for him, because Dad can't be trusted to do that.

It's the maternal guilt du jour. If it's not this, it will be something else!

Stella you're one smart cookie. I would tell you those things wouldn't I?

This morning was tough. I feel like a failure and am trying to stay positive. I have SAD and its' been especially brutal lately, just like it is every January through June. It's dark out I mean DARK and I have a sinus infection, like I do every winter. This is why old folks leave the midwest and go south. I"m smoldering in anger, resentment that I still live here. I hate it here, so much.

so I'm impatient and depressed. I actually texted my sister to find out what the drugs she takes are. She says if she doesnt' take them, she feels like killing everyone.

I am so torn. It's way easier and more convienient to take a pill than go to yoga three times a week (which heals everything) yet I know too much about the side effects and withdrawl to do it. I can tell I'm spiraling down. I so don't want it to effect my kids.

Anyway, my son told me this morning why he likes it at his Dads more. It's cleaner, more fun and he has a fireplace.

He's just a kid, yes, but I need to get these boxes out of here.

Okay. So do one box this morning and report back.

I get SAD too. It sucks more than anything else, because it undermines everything else. It's like I'm wearing a 200-pound wet buffalo hide over my back for five months out of the year. It was worse before living in Colorado, but it's still dark in the mornings.

I'm supposed to be getting the house ready to sell. There are things to be cleaned, replaced, tiled, sanded, painted, organized, put into storage, thrown away. Hundreds of things.

So I pick one thing. Just one. It can't take more than fifteen minutes.

I involve people when I can, too. I'll tell them, "This is my One Thing. Let's celebrate when I'm done." Maybe your kids would like to be the foremen for chipping away at the box mountain, one by one, with rewards for BOTH of you when each small step is done? (treats of any kind...a game, ice cream, anything you both love) Anything to take the stench of guilt out of it and make it fun.

Anyway. One box. Top of the stack, on the right. 123go. :D
Action is the antidote for despair.

Ok you're a bad ass, wonderful, smart woman.

I will attack the boxes tonight, the kids are going to Disneyland, I mean their dads house after school and coming back Tuesday after school.

I will give them jobs too. I think it's good to recognize I"m freaking depressed. It's so bad for the kids, I was crying yesterday, I just can't stand the dark anymore.

AND I just remembered I haven't been giving myself or my kids our fish oil and omega three fatty acids. Yes, they're yucky, but they really improve mood, smarties and provide lots of other health benefits.

AND I"m not doing the stuff I"m suppose to do to counteract the SAD. I should go to the fry your cells in the coffin like tanning booth today. That really helps.

The chances of getting on a plane to see my sister in Key West are slim, all though I usually go every winter. That's not helping.

But you guys are. You're amazing and wonderful and smart. Those poor alkies. They could have had the best partners in the world...

Dude, get in the tanning bed TODAY if it helps.
Evening Primrose Oil is an O-3FA that isn't gross. It may not be as effective as the fish oil but I love it.
I take effexor 75 mg and I know what you mean about the yoga and meditation and chanting and going all herbal and holistic, but I have 3 small children and a job and 4 dogs and 2 cats and a house to take care of! There is no 3 hours a week for yoga, so sometimes, you have to do what works.

Do what works, T!

Hey Hon,
I have always been depressed in the long dark winter months. Tanning, although it may not be great for my skin- helps me alot. 20 minutes a few times a week, gives me some hope. It helps me get by till summer.
With the stuff that all of us here are going through, we need all the help we can get.
Hugs!!!

Dude! Four dogs? Are you serious?
When my kids are grown, I won't own a plant.

And, the yoga is two hours each session, so that's 6 hours a week.

Thanks Miyah!

Don't leave out the possibility that he was prepped to say it. Sigh. I've seen no end to manipulation in my alcoholic family.

True. And at the least, he's overheard discussion of such things. I'm guilty of it too I admit. All though I am getting better at making sure little ears are no where around if I vent. Like, they're at school, or their dads, not even at the house. My one son is like Columbo, and surprisingly, he's the one who says he likes it at both of our houses equally, just wishes he could get away from his little brother..

My daughter is 19 now and moved out of the house one month before her 18th birthday .... I was always there for her ..always told her what was right and wrong .. we clashed a lot and she preferred her father at times more then me because he condoned drug use and being a hippy type lifestyle . fun and free but never did anything really for her just tried to be her friend ...Now they dont even speak and she told me just last week that she can not believe some of the things he taught her ..at the time she thought it was cool but now she sees how sick it all was .... So when they get older and have to experience real life ..they WILL know who cared and was there and who was playing games with them . best to just do what you know is right and instill values and morals .... later in life they will look back and know .

I'm so glad to see this thread. It's one of the things I fear most. Although I know all of things said her are true it has to be a gut wrenching experience. I hope all your SR friends have helped you see the light and I'm proud of you for doing something for yourself and your SAD. I moved from the Midwest to Texas to get away from it. Sometimes it seems like the trade off is worth it and sometimes at 115 degrees in the summer and Cedar Fever in the winter I wouldn't mind battling the snow again.

Chin up:ghug3

You seem like you've got a good grasp on things now. Just wanted to add that Coyote's "parenting ESH" thread talks about the kids putting the alcoholic parent on a pedestal, and you might be in a situation like that too. Didn't you say AH puts his dad on a pedestal to some extent as well?

And I wanted to say it's great that even though your child may be saying this because of x, y, or z, that you're still putting weight on his actual words and taking steps to make the house more home-like. A lot of parents would just dismiss something like this, but you are a loving, caring parent who is doing her best to make a home for her kids. And you know, my AH does get to be "fun dad" a lot, but I'm not letting him monopolize the fun. Sometimes we have ice cream for dinner. Sometimes I sit and watch dumb cartoons with them. I let them have a hand in decorating our new apartment. (Although I drew the line at my 3yo wanting to paint the entire place pink.) Don't let him have a monopoly on the fun!

Aw, Transform, I know its hard. My kids like whichever parent's house they are at...or whichever one they are not at...depending on whether the wind might be blowing. They're just kids. My daughter likes it at her dad's if I make her clean her room; and she likes it better at my house if she's at her dad's and bored because she doesn't HAVE her own room there...you know what I mean.

Deep breath...this too shall pass.

This really is an amazingly supportive, realistic and informative thread. Thank you to everyone.

I"m working on changing my attitude. I went to sleep last night at 8pm and just got up, hoping to knock the snot out of what most likely is a sinus infection. Welcome to Michigan in January.

AH called this morning to say he had a hard time getting youngest Transformie to go to school. He's our challenging child--the one who said he likes it better at dads--he's the one who has taught me how little I know about parenting. And I'd been one for 16 years when he was born!

So the kids will come home tonight and I have much content to write and edit for this paper we're suppose to be sending to press Friday. I"m trying to be content with just working while the kids are gone or sleeping and working on those boxes when they get here. They'll like it anyway, once they get started on it, because it's their stuff! I think I’ll give youngest Transformie the job of sorting out and organizing his art supplies. Then he can create hilarious little art thingies.

Having a plan-and support from you guys- makes me feel a lot better. I know we say this a lot, but wouldn’t it be great if we could have a big dinner party?

I'm not sure how to articulate this, but I want to say that while all of your warnings of how manipulative, selfish and otherwise odious our A's can be, that they also have moments of very human like behavior. Naïve has helped me understand and recognize the attack and pull back to strategize tendencies my AH has, but I can’t XXX those to him 100%, which may be part of why this is such a difficult thing to navigate.

When I’m angry with him, I willingly assign 100% horrible persons status to him. But I don’t think it’s accurate. I think he wants to be giving, kind, supportive and a good parent. But his progressing alcoholism prevents it. Like my being a human being with issue from my past also prevents me from being the kind of person I want to be sometimes.

But- I think the difference is that I am slowly steadily gaining in self-awareness, while he is spiraling downward in alcoholism. I know it’s a progressive disease. We’re not living together anymore, and I’m really not even talking to him much now a days so I don’t see it anymore. From a distance, he seems to be a normal, rational person.

I’m just ruminating on paper here. I don’t like—all though I sometimes do when I’m reeeeeally mad---blaming others for my situations. I do like knowing I can fix and change things, that I’m 100% responsible for my life and circumstances. I don’t think you’re encouraging me to do blame him, you just want me to realistically assess what AH is capable of, by nature of his alcoholism.

Geez. How’s that for overthinking something? Guess I better go analyze national news instead…

This is exactly how I feel a lot of the time. He "seems" so normal but then the kids come back with these stories of behaviors that just aren't quite right. They're starting to pick up on it...they just don't always know what IT is.

And all the promises they've heard about new video games, big tvs, etc... At 8 that sounds really cool. But I've noticed my eldest no longer says anything and just looks at the little one when he does. In fact when he said something the other day I heard her say - You know, I just don't get my hopes up.

Right now I'm talking to the eldest about manipulation. I don't talk about exah. I just try to help her recognize it in stuff that happens to her at school or at my job.