Dude! Four dogs? Are you serious?
When my kids are grown, I won't own a plant.

And, the yoga is two hours each session, so that's 6 hours a week.

Thanks Miyah!

Don't leave out the possibility that he was prepped to say it. Sigh. I've seen no end to manipulation in my alcoholic family.

True. And at the least, he's overheard discussion of such things. I'm guilty of it too I admit. All though I am getting better at making sure little ears are no where around if I vent. Like, they're at school, or their dads, not even at the house. My one son is like Columbo, and surprisingly, he's the one who says he likes it at both of our houses equally, just wishes he could get away from his little brother..

My daughter is 19 now and moved out of the house one month before her 18th birthday .... I was always there for her ..always told her what was right and wrong .. we clashed a lot and she preferred her father at times more then me because he condoned drug use and being a hippy type lifestyle . fun and free but never did anything really for her just tried to be her friend ...Now they dont even speak and she told me just last week that she can not believe some of the things he taught her ..at the time she thought it was cool but now she sees how sick it all was .... So when they get older and have to experience real life ..they WILL know who cared and was there and who was playing games with them . best to just do what you know is right and instill values and morals .... later in life they will look back and know .

I'm so glad to see this thread. It's one of the things I fear most. Although I know all of things said her are true it has to be a gut wrenching experience. I hope all your SR friends have helped you see the light and I'm proud of you for doing something for yourself and your SAD. I moved from the Midwest to Texas to get away from it. Sometimes it seems like the trade off is worth it and sometimes at 115 degrees in the summer and Cedar Fever in the winter I wouldn't mind battling the snow again.

Chin up:ghug3

You seem like you've got a good grasp on things now. Just wanted to add that Coyote's "parenting ESH" thread talks about the kids putting the alcoholic parent on a pedestal, and you might be in a situation like that too. Didn't you say AH puts his dad on a pedestal to some extent as well?

And I wanted to say it's great that even though your child may be saying this because of x, y, or z, that you're still putting weight on his actual words and taking steps to make the house more home-like. A lot of parents would just dismiss something like this, but you are a loving, caring parent who is doing her best to make a home for her kids. And you know, my AH does get to be "fun dad" a lot, but I'm not letting him monopolize the fun. Sometimes we have ice cream for dinner. Sometimes I sit and watch dumb cartoons with them. I let them have a hand in decorating our new apartment. (Although I drew the line at my 3yo wanting to paint the entire place pink.) Don't let him have a monopoly on the fun!

Aw, Transform, I know its hard. My kids like whichever parent's house they are at...or whichever one they are not at...depending on whether the wind might be blowing. They're just kids. My daughter likes it at her dad's if I make her clean her room; and she likes it better at my house if she's at her dad's and bored because she doesn't HAVE her own room there...you know what I mean.

Deep breath...this too shall pass.

This really is an amazingly supportive, realistic and informative thread. Thank you to everyone.

I"m working on changing my attitude. I went to sleep last night at 8pm and just got up, hoping to knock the snot out of what most likely is a sinus infection. Welcome to Michigan in January.

AH called this morning to say he had a hard time getting youngest Transformie to go to school. He's our challenging child--the one who said he likes it better at dads--he's the one who has taught me how little I know about parenting. And I'd been one for 16 years when he was born!

So the kids will come home tonight and I have much content to write and edit for this paper we're suppose to be sending to press Friday. I"m trying to be content with just working while the kids are gone or sleeping and working on those boxes when they get here. They'll like it anyway, once they get started on it, because it's their stuff! I think I’ll give youngest Transformie the job of sorting out and organizing his art supplies. Then he can create hilarious little art thingies.

Having a plan-and support from you guys- makes me feel a lot better. I know we say this a lot, but wouldn’t it be great if we could have a big dinner party?

I'm not sure how to articulate this, but I want to say that while all of your warnings of how manipulative, selfish and otherwise odious our A's can be, that they also have moments of very human like behavior. Naïve has helped me understand and recognize the attack and pull back to strategize tendencies my AH has, but I can’t XXX those to him 100%, which may be part of why this is such a difficult thing to navigate.

When I’m angry with him, I willingly assign 100% horrible persons status to him. But I don’t think it’s accurate. I think he wants to be giving, kind, supportive and a good parent. But his progressing alcoholism prevents it. Like my being a human being with issue from my past also prevents me from being the kind of person I want to be sometimes.

But- I think the difference is that I am slowly steadily gaining in self-awareness, while he is spiraling downward in alcoholism. I know it’s a progressive disease. We’re not living together anymore, and I’m really not even talking to him much now a days so I don’t see it anymore. From a distance, he seems to be a normal, rational person.

I’m just ruminating on paper here. I don’t like—all though I sometimes do when I’m reeeeeally mad---blaming others for my situations. I do like knowing I can fix and change things, that I’m 100% responsible for my life and circumstances. I don’t think you’re encouraging me to do blame him, you just want me to realistically assess what AH is capable of, by nature of his alcoholism.

Geez. How’s that for overthinking something? Guess I better go analyze national news instead…

This is exactly how I feel a lot of the time. He "seems" so normal but then the kids come back with these stories of behaviors that just aren't quite right. They're starting to pick up on it...they just don't always know what IT is.

And all the promises they've heard about new video games, big tvs, etc... At 8 that sounds really cool. But I've noticed my eldest no longer says anything and just looks at the little one when he does. In fact when he said something the other day I heard her say - You know, I just don't get my hopes up.

Right now I'm talking to the eldest about manipulation. I don't talk about exah. I just try to help her recognize it in stuff that happens to her at school or at my job.

I think this is a more healthy and realistic attitude towards the A's in our lives.
The trick is to not let it sway us into poor decisions or boundaries. I know, without question, that each time my A got clean & sober, it was the life he truly wanted to live. For every single hurt he caused his mother, his daughter and me, he feels remorse. It is so easy to cast them in nothing but bad light, and then doesn't that light shine even brighter on us? Just something to think about.

Thanks guys
and if you're wondering wtf this is
it's the way I write. If you can't think of the word, just put XXX down and go back to it, that a way you're not breaking up the train of thought to self edit while writing.

I didn't even know I did it and din't go back and fix it, but think the word I was looking for was assign...
sorry..

Hey transform...just a thought but when I feel overwhelmed with the housework etc I check out flylady.com and she points me in the right direction.....don't be too hard on yourself.....one small box at a time....

And... you know what I sometimes do? This may make a few of you laugh!!...but as we are all time poor this days I put the timer in the kitchen on for 20 minutes...and then I literally run around doing as much as I can in the 20 minutes!! Hope I am making you laugh you can just imagine me can't you flying by the seat of my pants!! Grin grin but truly you would be totally amazed how much you can get done in such a short time if you make it a little fun!! ....and for the kids I put the timer on for five minutes while they run around like crazy picking things up - its fun and it sure gets the job done my friend :0)

And I feel a real sense of achievement too....come on go set that timer/watch/ alarm whatever...off you go now! "))

Infact my son returns to school tomorrow the first day back after 8 weeks of summer holidays so as soon as I get off this forum my 20 minute timer will be on to get a few jobs done!!

We can do this together...let me know how you go! Take care...you are doing just fine.....Phiz... :0)

I love the idea of getting the kids to help unpack boxes, and if you use Phizthe Whiz bright idea of the timer turning it into a game, it could be real funtime at your place. Mind you I see you collapsed on your sofa, red faced and panting hard when the timer rings, but heck that is just part of the fun.

God bless

Peaceforme wrote: Wow, that is really hitting the nail on the head....

So true. I think lots of others here have indicated that maybe your ex is just being a "pal" instead of a parent and kids always like that until they realize one day they prefer the things a responsible parent offers. And, they often realize that in their teens.

I think if you can imagine yourself making a post in a few short years it will be something along the lines: "my kids don't want to stay at my XAH's house anymore!"