neuropathy or drunk?
 

My AW has been out of a 28 day rehab program for just over two weeks. I believe that, while there, she recognized the seriousness of her disease, both to herself and to us. Since her return home, she has attended AA, reads from the BigBook, is seeing a counselor on a weekly basis, going to a fitness club...all seemingly the right things to do. A little over a week ago, in the evening when I get home from work, she is behaving as though she is drunk; unsteady on her feet, slurring speech, irrational conversations. I tell her she is behaving as though she is drinking again. I found an empty wine bottle in the back of her car, she swears she has no idea where it came from or how long is was there. We both went to her counselor and he recommended that if I think her behaviour pointed to drinking that I should take her to the counselor's office for a breathalyzer test. Last night, she was really acting as though she was drinking, talking nonsense, cursing me out, etc. This morning, apprx. 13 hrs. after appearing drunk, we went to the counselor, he did the breathalyzer test and it read 0.00. I don't know what to think. Her behavior says drinking, the test says NO. Can this evening behavior be neurologically based???

An empty wine bottle and drunk behavior seems like an obvious connection.
Is 13 hours enough time for the alcohol to work through her system and give a negative result?
Is she maybe taking pills now?

If she's being 100% honest and this is baseline behavior then she might want to get a complete Neuro work-up...because something's going on right?

good luck- have you been getting some help too spiked? AlAnon or private counseling?
peace-
b

people burn off 1 "dose" of alcohol every hour normally

6 hours or so if she drank one bottle of wine (4.5 "doses") she would probably blow a 0.00, after 13 hours she'd definitely "blow" a 0.00 after one bottle.

Sounds like she was drunk.

I'd have to agree with Ago.

Something isn't right, and I'm not thinking neuropathy either.

I have some residual neuropathy that is numbness in my fingertips/toes that comes and goes, NOT drunken behavior.

Also, the neuropathy would likely have manifested while she was in rehab. Mine sure did.

First of all, you don't have to go to a counselor for her to take a breathalizer. They sell those at drug stores. Years ago, I got tired of coming home and wondering if AH had been drinking while watching our two kids. I bought one and asked him to blow. Everyone at AA balked when he told them I had one, and I'm sure almost everyone here would balk as well. Truth is, I got sick of playing the game where I ask and he denies, I find a bottle and he lies ("it must be old, I didn't even remember it was there"), I say he's slurring and he says he's just tired. I wanted to know, so I bought one. Worked pretty well too. But ultimately, what I learned was, alllllllllll those times that I suspected before and he denied, I was right every time. At least it helped me know for sure in my mind when he was, so I didn't have to play the ask game and could make other choices, like not having a conversation with Jack Daniels. The breathalizer worked as a training tool for me. I don't need it anymore. I can tell just by looking at my AH if he's been drinking. It didn't have anything to do with his recovery, it just stopped us from having all those ridiculous conversations.

He went through rehab too. Wasn't cheap. I couldn't believe he'd drink again right after that, but he did.

And about "the right thing to do". I'm so sick of hearing that from my AH. He is always chirping about the "right thing to do". Going through the motions doesn't equate to a hill of beans if they aren't serious about their sobriety. My AH would say prayers with our kids every night at bedtime and then drink himself into oblivion. He'd scold them for lying and then scare the hell out of them when they saw him drunk. He'd shush me if a curse word slipped out of my lips in front of the kids (including the word "fart", "we" say "toot") and then hide vodka all over the house in water bottles (which our son accidentally took a swig of at the tender age of 3).

Anyway, I bought into his bible-backed list of wrong "things to do" for a long time. When we'd argue, he'd brag that at least he says prayers with our kids at night. Poooey! There is only one right thing to do, and that is to be honest at all times. Well, I suppose there is more than only one right thing to do, but that's at the top for me.

Around the 2-3 week time after a month in rehab, L started drinking and lying about it. I was suspicsious but wanted to support him. Gave him the benefit of the doubt. I was wrong.

Around the end of the 2nd week out of rehab, my AH announced he was going to move into the guest room and drink all he wanted.

You all know that I had my AH arrested in an attempt to force treatment on him. Because he had never been in trouble in the past, they had him "evaluated" for alcoholism to determine what the best "treatment plan" would be for him. He lied through his teeth telling them that he might have 3 or 4 drinks a night and that he was not dependent and had never experienced withdrawal symptoms from drinking. Even though I told them otherwise, they still only made him take an alcohol awareness course, which only taught him how much he could drink and when he had to stop so that he could pass his breathylizer test the next day. AH spent 6 months tracking the so called random testing until he found the pattern. Then he was free to get chit-faced whenever he wanted since he knew when he would have to go in and test and when he would not.

My point in all of this is that if your A is drinking again...no power in the world can or will make them stop until their lives become so bad that they want to. It is sad to know that it only ends in recovery or death, but unfortunately that is true.

I wish you peace in your heart and sobriety and health for your A. That is what all of us "codies" want. Peace, love and health.

I continue to be amazed by the great comments that all the people on this site post. Reading these replies, I decided that I needed to have my own breathalyzer for home use. I went out last night to find one, but none of the stores carried them. So, off to the internet and that's where I ordered one. Unfortunately, it won't be here until next week. So, until then, I will continue to wonder is it alcohol or a neurological problem.

Looking back, the worst part of all the tortured years of living with an alcoholic ... was the endless mind games about whether he was drinking and lying about it.

I wasted many precious years being manipulated by being told the erratic behavior I was observing was just my imagination. I was always being told that he was just tired, didn't feel good, he was stressed or had bad sinus problems ... excuses and mind games that all turned out to be lies in the end. He constantly had me doubting my judgment making me feel like a overreacting fool.... something I now deeply regret getting caught up in but there was not an alternative at the time. It wasn't just me he had fooled with his games of denial .... he had every member of his family and mine wondering if I was just overreacting and making things up .... and he even fooled a counselor we were going to. It was a miserable way to live.

My AH knew I had zero tolerance for alcohol abuse ... so he was always very careful not to drink so much that he was out of control that he would be caught.

My life only began to change once I had actual proof he had been abusing alcohol for years ... the mind games and drinking would finally stop ... and we could both face the reality of his addiction and his denial. Once I knew the truth, I finally had the courage to set boundaries and refuse to live with someone that had been deceitful about drinking for years ... and I no longer felt guilty about not letting him drive our kids somewhere in the car.

Getting a breathalyzer was one of the tools that stopped the game playing and allowed me to set boundaries and stick to them without engaging in the endless debates about the source of his odd behavior. When he would come marching through the door with a self righteous attitude about his supposedly sober behavior, all I had to do was say, "I have a breathalyzer in the other room, if you haven't been drinking, you won't mind using it...especially since you have had a long history of lying about your drinking" .... and he would get indignant, grumble and go stomping right back out the door, leaving me at peace to get back to my other responsibilities. The hours of debates and arguments came to an end. Both he and I knew, that if he actually had not been drinking, he would not have objected. The beauty of it was that I never even had to take the breathalizer out of its box. I consider a breathalizer to be nothing more than a simple lie detector for alcoholics.

One way to look at the breathalizer, is that when a police officer pulls someone over for erratic driving, they do not take the word of the driver that they have not been drinking ... so why should we. The officer puts the driver through a series of tests before allowing them back on to the roadways potentially causing great harm to others ... they insist on facts, why shouldn't we as well before exposing ourselves and our families to the toxic results of living with an alcoholic.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. A's will make up anything to hide their drinking. My AH said when he was really drunk one time that he wasn't drunk, he thought he was having a stroke! Well, that tune changed when I insisted we should take him to the hospital LOL!
FWIW, my AH is in outpatient treatment, and he had a brief relapse about 3 months ago. I called his counselor, told him I had a feeling he was drinking again, and they breathalyzed him as soon as he went in, and he is still breathalyzed each and every time he goes for counseling, plus urine tested (can tell up to 24-48 hours).

I can see getting a breathalyzer would be a great idea in this situation.

I'd also have to say, at some point I'd have to ask myself what I was doing in a relationship where I had to get a breathalyzer. What I was doing in a relationship where I allowed my sig other to lie to me. What, in me, made me have such low self esteem to allow this in my life.

Don't get me wrong, I was in the same place when I got here, subject to all the lies, the disappearances, the manipulations, both of me and the truth, the distortions, all of that great stuff that goes along living with an insane person and make no mistake, practicing alcoholics are insane. Narcissistic, self centered pathological liars. Newly sober alcoholics get diagnosed as "Bi-Polar" all the time...because they are at that time.

The more I tried to make sense of a crazy situation and a crazy person, the crazier I got. The more I "played the game" the crazier I got. Every time I set rules and boundaries, they were "moved" and "changed". The "tactics" would "morph". It was the same game over and over, just in different clothes.

Every time I said "enough, I can't do this any more" The wall of seduction would begin again, all of the promises, the "changed behavior", The "I see my part", The "I promise I will change" etc etc blah blah blah

Within a short period of time it would all begin again, the lies, the manipulations, the abuse, the gaslighting....

The only way could make it work was by "not playing" any more.

I had to ask myself what I was getting out of all of this. I had to decide I was worth more then this.

So, a breathalyzer is a great idea, to fix one symptom, to "rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic" but at some point I had to ask myself "what is the solution?"

The real solution.

The solution for me.

What is best for me?

Do I want to just keep going from Band Aid to Band Aid (because trust me, something new will come up) or do I want to stop the bleeding and heal?

If I have a problem in my life, it's my problem, not someone else's. The first thing I had to learn is "they" aren't "the problem".

My problem, my solution.

My life and happiness is dependent on me and MY decisions, not someone else's. As long as I put my happiness in someone else's hands, especially an insane narcissistic persons, I was setting myself up to be miserable.

The choice was mine.

The solution was mine.

or had bad sinus problems ...

I thought mine was the only one that had used that line?? Too funny!

Stomach aches was a popular one.

My mom has the habit of calling me when she has a melt-down and as soon as she opens her mouth, I tell her that she could handle these issues much better if she were sober.

Her instant reply, "Oh kid, I have the flu. I'm not drinking." She's had the "flu" for the last five months.

I love it when she talks about herself in the third person, too... that's a huge red flag... "Mom will be okay. Don't you worry about Mom; she'll be fine."

She's also notorious for saying she's "EXHHHAUSSTED... Sooooo tired... All. The. Time." and that's when the water works (crying, sobbing, etc.) start. She works from home maybe 12 hours a week. What the world is so exhausting about that?

The drama, it never ends.

I am of the opinion that if you have the slightest inclination that it's even remotely possible, go with your gut because you're probably right on.

I am new to the forum, and I have a question that has come up with my alcoholic friend. She keeps hydrogen peroxide around all the time, and I've always wondered about it. Two night ago she got picked up DWI and the state trooper asked her live in friend who picked her up if she was drinking it. Is that possible? I would not think you could really drink that stuff, but I'm pretty sure she's drunk isopropyl alcohol before, so maybe I'm naive. Or is it just used as mouthwash to cover the breath and/or fool a salive test strip.

By the way, I did get a couple breathalyzers for her immediate contacts, but we had trouble using them. The test strips seemed easier, especially when she was passed out (which she attributes to various medical issues). You can get them online from Craig Medical.com.

Drinking hydrogen peroxide in any quantity (even 3% dilution) can make you seriously sick, so that's unlikely. There's no grain alcohol in there. Ditto for isopropyl alcohol - you can't ingest it unless you really want to get sick, sick, sick. Not sure what they're doing there.

LOL. Okay, not funny...but funny.

How about blaming the Novocaine at the dentist for messing up his vision and that's why he hit that mailbox and ripped the mirror off the car?

Unsteady on her feet, slurring speech, irrational conversations, empty wine bottle in the back of her car.. my bet is she is drinking.

Just as an aside.. and please don't take this the wrong way.. but what kind of a relationship is it where you have to breathalyze someone to get an answer to a simple question 'Are you drinking?'. Over and above the fact that the A is so untrustworthy you have to resort to a machine to get an answer, what kind of life is it when you are having to do random tests just to get to the truth of the situation.

:ghug

I say if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
Alcoholics find all kind of ways to manipulate us. Lying and guilt are their biggest weapons.

I cannot imagine staying in a relationship where there is so little trust that a breathalyzer was something I felt I had to have on hand. I cannot imagine wanting to treat my presumably adult partner in what I see as such a humiliating, child like manner.

Using a breathalyzer or anything similar, can empower us with the ability to face reality and to take the appropriate actions based on the truth without second guessing our decisions. Having a sane, rational sober person use a breathalyzer does not make sense - however, an active alcoholic does not behave in sane, rational or sober ways - and thrives on deception. Being able to tell the difference between a "sober" alcoholic and an active alcoholic is sometimes almost impossible - especially in the days of early sobriety.

SITUATION:
1- Someone truly sick, stressed, tired, disoriented or confused AND sober - appropriate reaction - support and compassion.
2- Someone disoriented and confused due to ongoing abusive drinking by an alcoholic - appropriate reaction - Moving on with your life without the alcoholic in it. Sobriety for at least a year before any consideration of a renewed relationship.
PROBLEM: Easy decisions if you know the truth but we often don't know if we are dealing with situation 1 or 2.

It is the uncertainty of sobriety or deception that keeps us trapped for so long. Anyone that has been involved in a close, long term, complex relationship with an alcoholic that has slowly transformed from a fulfilling relationship to alcoholic chaos, with marriage, kids, house ...etc. understands we cannot easily walk away from this individual we care about, especially if there are children involved that will always have a connection whether the alcoholic is sober or drinking. When the alcoholic is sincerely telling us that they are no longer drinking and is seeking sobriety, it is only normal to want to give them the benefit of the doubt if they have taken actual steps to get sober. Having our alcoholic find lasting sobriety and keeping families intact is the goal most of us strive for - and for some it becomes a wonderful reality. However, as we quickly learn, sometimes the alcoholic is telling the truth about sobriety - and sometimes they are lying and manipulating us, and many times it is almost impossible to know for sure what the truth is, leaving us feeling conflicted and confused over and over again. There in lies the problem - uncertainty that keeps us trapped for years.

There is no crystal ball that will let us know what the future with an alcoholic holds for us - years of endless broken promises or a future with someone healthy & sober. We also learn we can't always make correct assumptions as to whether our alcoholics are drinking or sober just by a quick assessment. During early sobriety, an alcoholic many times will exhibit strange behaviors for weeks and months as their body and mind slowly adjusts to sobriety - sometimes called a dry drunk. Also, alcoholics are still human, and that means there will be times they seem disoriented and unfocused because they are actually extremely tired or sick. I have known alcoholics that also suffered from low blood sugar causing their moods to change dramatically, becoming light headed, disoriented and shaky. They appeared to be impaired but were actually sober, experiencing symptoms of severe low blood sugar. Active alcoholics quickly learn how to manipulate this uncertainty and, short of a blood test or a breathalyzer, those close to the alcoholic are left unsure of what is truthfully going on. This is the state most of us live in for too long until it becomes undeniably clear (usually after many years) the alcoholic has been deceiving us and has been given every chance - yet continues to drink and we decide to move on. Sadly it can take too many years to get to this point. Not wasting energy on those "in between years" of uncertainty would be a blessing - and nothing short of a breathalyzer or a blood test will give us the confidence to make permanent changes much sooner in our lives, serious changes that can sometimes involve the unfortunate dismantling of families, changes made before all those years of uncertainty have been lost.

If we had the ability to distinguish the truth between addicted deception or a truthful effort to get sober, we could make wiser decisions much sooner with more confidence and less hesitation - and spend fewer years living unhappily in the land of uncertainty.

i agree with "enough". (and welcome). i too think it is very important to know what the truth is and with addiction in control, the only way to find the truth is to drug test.

the fact of addiction is that it will cause the addict to lie about using, and to lie with great finesse. we are at an extreme disadvantage if we want to know what REALITY we are living, if we simply have only the addict's words or behaviors to go on.

i know we cannot control or cure the addiction. but if we are going to live with people with this condition, then we have to protect ourselves. many addicts do not seem at all intoxicated when they are high as a kite. princess diana died because she stepped into a car with a drunk driver who was not apparently drunk.

i want to be safe. i want to know that the person driving the car i am riding in is not high. i want to know that the person who might be having a cigarette in the living room or who might be taking care of the house while i am away or who might be parenting the children or petsitting the pets....is not DRUNK or DRUGGED.

if we are going to continue our relationships with recovering addicts, then i think we need to protect ourselves with information that is solid.

i don't think drug testing is controlling or demeaning. i think it is a check-up on the disease, not the person. i think it is survival in its most basic form.

here, we say watch ACTIONS. so in addition to the drug testing when we are uncertain of what reality is really at work, we also must promise ourselves that we will not minimize addict behavior, nor deny addict responsibility and accountability by making excuses for the addict who is not working a recovery program.

so it isn't just, is he slurring or wobbling or mean.....it is also is he walking the recovery walk. and the recovery walk is umistakable. it is meetings, amends, service, humility.

and we also have to monitor ourselves. no breathazlyzers available for codie thinking and behavior. but staying connected to recovering people and being totally honest and willing to accept feedback is a pretty good substitute.

all the very best as you work things through.

This is exactly my thinking when I posted this question!! That's what I'm looking for right now....the answer to that. If my wife is truly sick, if she suffers from a diurnal drop in blood sugar, hypoglycemia, then I want to support and help her, not ask her to leave. She insists she's not drinking, was completely shaken when I asked about the empty bottle and for the last few days has had some severe emotional breakdowns thinking that she is going crazy or thanks to me, is suffering from a neurological disorder.

She was willing to be breathalyzed at the counselors office because she "knew" that she hadn't been drinking. So, she should feel the same about being checked at home. And when I get the breathalzyer and ask her to use it, I WILL KNOW!

If I knew I was not drinking but was coming accross as if I was, I would be seriously worried too, and would be hot-footing it to my GP for a referral. Job done. A bonus for that would be that my partner wouldn't feel they had to ask a bunch of random internet people who've never met me whether I was drinking or if it was some srious nerve/brain damage.

Perhaps you could suggest she goes to a GP, given the behaviour, and then let it go....

do you need to know either way right now, or could you wait and see what pattern emerges, how her behaviour pans out in the next couple of weeks?

that might give you and your gut a better chance for the truth to unfold.

She has an appointment with her physician next week. Do I need to know right now......good question. I guess that I do. I feel that if the current situation continues it can't be good in the long run. If it's alcohol, the sooner something is done the better. Same if it's physiological, the longer it continues without treatment, the more damage may be done.

I came home to a spouse who appeared drunk but swore he wasn't. I would take him to the ER for treatment since the behaviors/symptoms would strike me as serious. A delay in the light of serious symptoms doesn't seem to be a good idea. It would also immediately settle the question of is he drunk or sick?

Looks like my question has been answered.
I got home from work early yesterday. At the front door was the express mail pkg containing the breathalyzer. Inside the house, my wife's asleep on the couch (3pm). I test the breathalyzer on myself (0.00%). I leave the breathalyzer on the kitchen table. Wife wakes up. We order take out dinner. I go to pick up dinner, bring home some flowers for her as well. During dinner, she gets all upset about the breathalyzer, starts cursing me out about it. Even though she agreed in the presence of her counselor that if I thought she was drinking, she would be willing to get checked for alcohol. After dinner, I'm cleaning up, cleaning the floor, open the kitchen closet door, two packs of mini wine bottle on the floor, two empty bottles. OK, time for a breathalyzer test. Go to the box on the kitchen table, open it, what the h.....the 6 mouthpieces that came with the analyzer are gone!! light bulb goes off,....she threw them out when I went to pick up dinner!!
"Why are there bottles of wine in the closet?!!!"
"I bought them to test myself!" that's the answer....
You REALLY can't trust or believe alcoholics.....
And yet, 7am this morning she's going to an AA meeting.
It hasn't even been three weeks since she got out of the rehab program.......

Pretty much sums it up.

It's a hard lesson to learn though. Because you truly don't want to think that someone you give your love to can be THAT selfish and conniving.

Her behavior says all you need to hear. Someone who is still drinking is not serious about sobriety obviously.

So the big question remains. What do you want for your life?