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wow, thanks for all the feedback and personal stories. I can't tell you how much it helps. I'm having a hard time right now. (even crying) I'll post more later.... |
hi robins, Such great thinking above. Gosh, I love this place :) I once lived with a man who, it turned out, was extremely passive. I was unhappy, and told him so. We worked at finding common ground. But he had no interest in changing - nor ability to change - his basic nature. He wanted an aggressive partner to make things go. Several years ago, I met and began a relationship with a man who was also fairly passive (too busy being "in love," I didn't notice the pattern again) When the glow wore off and I began a huge program of self-exploration, I found myself unhappy again. And again we worked on finding common ground. This is the man I'm still married to. And his passivity is only a fraction of what it once was. He was actually interested in an equal partnership, but never having had it modeled for him when young, he didn't know what it looked like or felt like. We worked together to create something new that worked for both of us. Just to say that he might be perfectly happy with who he is and how he does things, and your E1 perfectionism might be making you both miserable. Or he might be adventurous enough to work with you on this and establish some new groundrules. Sounds like your answer may lie in here somewhere. Can you do counseling together to try to come closer to an answer for yourselves? By the way, not to be grumpy or anything :D but these are words that only someone who's never struggled with addiction would say: AH is content to simply stop drinking This from an enneagram 4 - your worst nightmare - so please don't hold it against me :) |
P.S. Robins.........hugs to you right now. I know this cliff you're staring over all too well. |
Originally Posted by GiveLove
(Post 2040498)
This from an enneagram 4 - :) okay, back to regularly scheduled posting.... |
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
(Post 2040477)
Over time, I came to realize that those were excuses--for me. He used to say to me all the time "no matter what I do, it will never make you happy." He was right. I was the only one who could make me happy, only I didn't quite realize it yet. We had grown apart over the years, in many ways. The drinking only made our differences bigger, but the differences were there nonetheless. In a relationship, you either grow together, or you grow apart. We had grown apart. Our life's ambitions, goals, ideals, values, were no longer the same. When I was picking apart his recovery, what I was really doing was looking for reasons to end the marriage. I did not want to admit that I had changed (probably even more than him) and that we were no longer on the same page of life. I wanted to justify ending the marriage because of him rather than own the responsibility of wanting out. Eventually, I did admit that it was me who wanted something different. That I had changed so much I could no longer accept who he was as my partner in life. There was a time he was exactly who I wanted in my life. That time had passed. In a way, I guess I "outgrew" him, sad as that sounds. L Couple things: AH often says, "nothing I do will make you happy". It's ironic. Because the more he does for HIMSELF, the more "happy" I'll be in the relationship. I've tried explaining this to him. We are growing apart. But, are we growing so far as to have no common ground? I am changing tremendously, and this scares me.
Originally Posted by anvilhead
(Post 2040481)
robin, i was in a long term relationship (god how long? i always have to count......met in '88, split in '03....) of 15 years to a very VERY nice man. great guy, multiple years of continuous sobriety, gregarious, funny, thoughtful, intelligent, gainfully employed, all that STUFF.....but somewhere along the way it just stopped working FOR ME. matter of fact the DAY we got married, in 1993, shortly after the ceremony i realized i'd made a mistake. stuck it out another 10 years trying to FIX that mistake..... wasn't anybodies fault...the relationship just had a shorter life span than we anticipated. he is STILL a terrific guy, he's just off being terrific somewhere else. Someone can be a terrific person, but that terrific person may not work for US.
Originally Posted by GiveLove
(Post 2040498)
hi robins, He wanted an aggressive partner to make things go. This is the man I'm still married to. And his passivity is only a fraction of what it once was. He was actually interested in an equal partnership, but never having had it modeled for him when young, he didn't know what it looked like or felt like. We worked together to create something new that worked for both of us. Just to say that he might be perfectly happy with who he is and how he does things, and your E1 perfectionism might be making you both miserable. Or he might be adventurous enough to work with you on this and establish some new groundrules. Sounds like your answer may lie in here somewhere. Can you do counseling together to try to come closer to an answer for yourselves? By the way, not to be grumpy or anything :D but these are words that only someone who's never struggled with addiction would say: You're jamming an enormous effort into a tiny thimble there...y'know? This from an enneagram 4 - your worst nightmare - so please don't hold it against me :) Wanting an aggressive partner to make things go??? YES! Needless to say, AH is an E9. Our combo seems like an unlikely success (?). Okay, please tell me how my statement is typical of someone who's struggled w/ addiction? :clueless: AH is somewhat "adventurous". He does want to change certain behavior and thought patterns. He is gaining some awareness. He is giving me space (moved into downstairs bedroom. we are now roommates). We are establishing new groundrules. But, when old patterns surface, I'm quick to say "no more, this won't work out". In essence, I'm having a hard time untangling my own E1 and co-dependent issues from the issue of basic compatibility (or lack of). |
Originally Posted by RobinsFly
(Post 2040560)
Okay, please tell me how my statement is typical of someone who hasn't struggled w/ addiction? :clueless: |
Originally Posted by miss communicat
(Post 2040454)
this point is very important. Acceptance is not settling..... :huh?: |
We MUST accept people as they are. We DON'T HAVE TO allow them to be part of our lives. L |
Originally Posted by anvilhead
(Post 2040571)
i think Give Love said those sound like words of someone who has never (personally) struggled with addiction when you stated: AH is content to simply stop drinking.... as an addict myself, that comes close to minimizing the monumental effort it takes to "simply stop" using....my DOC is crack cocaine, and prying that dang pipe out of my hands, putting it down and NOT picking it back up (or buying a new one....) was a HUGE effort on my part and even tho it may not always seem like it to LOOK at me, it's still a ginormous effort today..........JUST quitting IS a big deal. For me, that lack of recognition is hard to give when I'm feeling angry for the damage his alcoholism has done to the relationship. This is going to sound mean (so please be kind), but I don't feel like I have to GIVE praise or recognition or whatever when he has taken away so much.
Originally Posted by Ago
(Post 2040573)
Quitting drinking is "no small feat" and only someone unfamiliar with addiction or who hadn't struggled with it would "minimize" it or realize the vastness of him quitting I don't think I do understand the magnitude of quitting something that is destroying your life. |
I had to gain a new vocabulary in order to get more emotionally healthy. The words i've gotten the most serenity mileage out of are "thats the way he/she/it is". Like LTD says, it does not, in any way, mean that I approve, condone, or marry him/her/it. I simply carry on with my good life and allow him/her/it to do the same. |
Key to Serenity - Page 449 It may be one of the most referenced passages in recovery literature. It's from Page 449 of Alcoholics Anonymous or The Big Book as it is widely known: And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God's world by mistake. Until I could accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober; unless I accept life completely on life's terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes. Shakespeare said, "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players." He forgot to mention that I was the chief critic. I was always able to see the flaw in every person, every situation. And I was always glad to point it out, because I knw you wanted perfection, just as I did. A.A. and acceptance have taught me that there is a bit of good in the worst of us and a bit of bad in the best of us; that we are all children of God and we each have a right to be here. When I complain about me or about you, I am complaining about God's handiwork. I am saying that I know better then God. For years I was sure the worst thing that could happen to a nice guy like me would be that I would turn out to be an alcoholic. Today I find it's the best thing that has ever happened to me. This proves I don't know what's good for me. And if I don't know what's good for me, then I don't know what's good or bad for you or for anyone. So I'm better off if I don't give advice, don't figure I know what's best, and just accept life on life's terms, as it is today--especially my own life, as it actually is.Before A.A. I judged myself by my intentions, while the world was judging me by my actions. For me, serenity began when I learned to distinguish between those things that I could change and those I could not. When I admitted that there were people, places, things, and situations over which I was totally powerless, those things began to lose their power over me. I learned that everyone has the right to make their own mistakes, and learn from them, without my interference, judgement, or assistance! The key to my serenity is acceptance. But "acceptance" does not mean that I have to like it, condone it, or even ignore it. What it does mean is I am powerless to do anything about it... and I have to accept that fact. Nor does it mean that I have to accept "unacceptable behavoir." Today I have choices. I no longer have to accept abuse in any form. I can choose to walk away, even if it means stepping out into the unknown. I no longer have to fear "change" or the unknown. I can merely accept it as part of the journey. I spent years trying to change things in my life over which I was powerless, but did not know it. I threatened, scolded, manipulated, coerced, pleaded, begged, pouted, bribed and generally tried everything I could to make the situation better -- only watch as things always got progressively worse. I spent so much time trying to change the things I could not change, it never once occurred to me to simply accept them as they were. Now when things in my life are not going the way I planned them, or downright bad things happen, I can remind myself that whatever is going on is not happening by accident. There's a reason for it and it is not always meant for me to know what that reason is. That change in attitude has been the key to happiness for me. I know I am not the only who has found that serenity. "When I focus on what’s good today, I have a good day, and when I focus on what’s bad, I have a bad day. If I focus on a problem, the problem increases; if I focus on the answer, the answer increases." |
Originally Posted by miss communicat
(Post 2040587)
I had to gain a new vocabulary in order to get more emotionally healthy. The words i've gotten the most serenity mileage out of are "thats the way he/she/it is". Like LTD says, it does not, in any way, mean that I approve, condone, or marry him/her/it. I simply carry on with my good life and allow him/her/it to do the same. So, what I need to do is figure out what I can accept? Obviously, the booze is no longer accepted. Nor is the extreme passivity and 'checking-out' behaviors. AH is working on all these things. My big, hard, difficult, heart-wrenching, task is to decide if, overall, I can accept him and move forward. dammit, can someone please figure this out for me? |
They often say here, as regards addictive behavior, that we can't do it for them -- they have to do it themselves, feel the hard work, go through the steps, in order for it to really have any meaning (let alone "stick") I'm afraid it's the same for you. The good news is that you don't have to decide today, or tomorrow, or next Thursday. Figuring out your life's "dealbreakers" (the things you can't live with, and can't live without) is kind of a wild adventure, but having gone through it will serve you for the rest of your time on the planet. Have you gone through any counseling yourself, to try to create what Barbara Sher calls her "perfect day scenario" ? (where you are, who you're with, what it looks/smells/feels/tastes like, ad infinitum) That was probably one of the pivotal times in my life, hard as hell but worth every second, every tear. |
Originally Posted by anvilhead
(Post 2040591)
again tho robin, i really sense that it's VERY possible that the real issues and undercurrents in your relationship have very little to do with the actual consumption of alcohol and much more to do with how life is "digested"....... ps - you don't have ANY less than healthy habits? nail biting? smoking? codependancy? chocolate? you've NEVER fought to change a behavior that you KNOW is unhealthy? tried to stick to the cucumber and fava bean diet? quit caffeine? tried to get a new early morning workout routine off the ground? and found those things HARDER than ya thought to accomplish? I think you nailed it. The core problems in the relationship are even bigger than the drinking. There are so many layers (we have a long and complicated history I can't get into at the moment. infertility, life-threatening illness, family & money troubles, etc...). But more important, the differences in how life is digested, as you say. What? I have no unhealthy behaviors! jk If someone told me I could no longer eat sweets I'd go nuts. I also think I have more co-dependent habits than I'd like to admit. |
God I love this place sometimes So much "meat" so thought provoking in addition to this thread I'm thinking about TC's quote about not having to "justify" or "explain" her actions any more, that was "served up to me" countless times this week, the first time, I "explained and justified" and walked away literally sick to my stomach, I wanted to puke, to last night saying "I don't care to discuss this" and walking away feeling good about myself OK, back on track, where are you guys getting the E1-9 personality profiles? Also, that whole "acceptance" speech, I have probably read 10's of thousands of times and it just never gets old, it's part of my "foundation" and "daily reading" |
If it's any consolation, I am really finding that these important, difficult decisions come in their own good time. No need to force it before you are ready. If you don't know, you don't know. I'm a thinker and a planner and a figure-it-out-right-nower. I want to know what's going to happen. But I'm working on knowing that I can't know for sure. That the next right step will be apparent when the time is right. That helps me relax and cherish the time that I have - the goodness that is present right now. Surely life has improved for you in many ways now that the alcohol is out of the picture. What's good about your life today? Take care - I'm so glad that you're here! -TC |
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