I don't share my boundaries with anyone as rules for their behavior. I decide what I can and cannot live with, what I want or don't want in my life, and then make choices accordingly.

I actually set boundaries with xAH very early in the relationship. He knew where I stood on certain issues. I then CHOSE to keep changing my boundaries to keep the relationship. So who taught him to treat me the way he did? I did.

The difference today is with ME. I've learned through my own recovery that I will never compromise my standards again for someone else. That is different from mutually agreed upon compromise. If someone crosses my boundary today, I take the action I told myself I would and that is it. It doesn't close the door to that person forever, but it does say I respect myself and I expect respect in return.

This has worked for me in wonderful ways.

interesting...

i can tell my husband *if you don't stop drinking i will leave the relationship* - that is a boundary - my husband can tell me - *if you drink i'll leave* - it's an ultimatum - i guess it's really the motives of who is stating their boundary - but really it is one in the same...

as for myself - when we decided *because of a son's probation* to not have alcohol in the house i didn't mind not having anything alcohol - a glass of wine or drink - now two and half years later it's just easier to not have anything to drink - it works for me :)...

s

In my book, that's an ultimatum.

To make that a boundary I would say to myself I cannot live the life I want with someone who is drinking. If I find myself in the living with someone who is drinking I will do X to make my life better.

Notice how I am not telling the other person what to do. The focus is on me, what I want in my life, what I do not what in my life and what I will do, all without the element of telling someone else how to act. That is what makes it a boundary IMO.

From Dictionary.com:

Ultimatum - A final, uncompromising demand or set of terms issued by a party to a dispute, the rejection of which may lead to a severance of relations or to the use of force.

Boundary - Something that indicates bounds or limits; a limiting or bounding line.

The way I see it, an ultimatum involves force; a boundary doesn't. In other words, an ultimatum is an attempt to control another; a boundary is an attempt to protect myself.

IMHO - Boundaries are around your personal property - yourself - your own "yard". You determine what is acceptable to happen to yourself. And if you choose to not allow it to happen, you take actions on yourself (insert serenity prayer here for clarification). An ultimatim is setting up boundaries/control on someone else's property and requiring THEM to take an action on THEMSELVES. That is their business to change themselves, not yours.

There can be confusion on ultimatims: There is the 'boundary ultimatim' that says, "Here is my boundary for me and my health/serenity/sanity. If you cannot respect this boundary, I choose to take an action on/with myself to protect me (i.e. leave)." Then there is the 'control ultimatim' that says, "Here is where your boundaries should be and if you don't live within them and change you, I'm going to make you do this/that thing (or I'm going to take some action to try to make you live what I feel your boundaries should be)."

Again - all IMHO.

I am learning daily and first hand about this difference because as I started setting boundaries FOR MYSELF (what behaviors I was willing to accept "in my yard" from my AH), he began to accuse me of being controlling. He started telling me (and others about me), "Lately with you it's "My way or the highway."

It took me a while to sort through my feelings and thoughts on the matter. But as I learned more about verbal and emotional abuse, I realized what was happening, began to look hard and deep at my motives behind my boundaries, and what it was I was actually setting boundaries around. Then it was clear and I could tell him with confidence: I'm NOT setting boundaries around you or your life/actions. I am setting boundaries only around me and letting you (and others) know what I accept as appropriate treatment to me. Not to mention, I was the one who moved out of the house. I did not kick him out. I don't have children, so it was not as big a deal for me to go elsewhere.

anvil, I was just thinking of that yesterday when trying to come up with a boundary that isn't about drinking.

I will not date a smoker. Not a moral thing, not a judgmental thing. I'm allergic, I think the stench is horrific and I don't want to live with it. I wouldn't say to someone, stop smoking and I'll date you. I make the choice not to date them, and I don't need to tell them why. I'm not out to get them to stop smoking. I understand I could be missing out on a great person, but it's an important enough issue to ME that I accept that possibility.

My first wife and I both quit a crack habit shortly after we were married and if one of us was still using it would have made it next to impossible for the other to quit. It's friggen hard enough with out it in your face. A couple years later S quit smoking the day she found out she was pregnant with our first. I quit smoking in front of her and in the house out of respect for her struggle. I've been in the OPs situation too, when M came home from rehab this was a alcohol free home and I quit out of respect for her struggle. Going on almost two years now I quit smoking and if I had a SO that smoked I would be a little pissed if I had to ask her to take that outside. The world could use a little more consideration.

This is a fascinating thread and has gone through some surprising twists and turns and has really helped me understand the dynamic that's going on with my wife and I.

I hope you don't mind a newly RAH (12 weeks) posting here in FAFofA. See my previous posts above.

The light bulb went on for me. My boundary regarding her enjoying her one drink at the end of the day is that I will stay in the same room if I am feeling healthy and happy and the knot doesn't tie itself in my stomach. If I'm not feeling healthy, I go to another room until she's done or I go to bed...

Light bulb moment... I was trying to understand why she gets upset, sometimes (she really did Sunday nite...) when I choose to go to another room. Since I am not her, and I can't read her mind, I really don't know why she gets so upset some nights (as she doesn't know why I am ok or not ok with it on any given nite...). Does she feel guilty? Would she like to sit with me as much as I would with her? Does she resent the changes in her life my recovery is causing? But sometimes her reaction seems out of proportion... but now I get that she may also think that I am trying to control her by my setting my boundary... (duh...)

Light bulb moment number two... Could it be that I am trying to control her??

Mark

Wow, Mark.

I'd be interested in what your heart tells you about that last question....

What a fascinating thread. I learn something new here every day, I swear.

I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this post, Anvilhead.

I was very fortunate in that I left my EXAH as soon as I got out of rehab for my own safety/sanity/recovery, and my home has been alcohol-free ever since.

I honestly don't know how other alcoholics do it early in sobriety with a spouse who drinks, even if it is social drinking.

I don't see where you are trying to control her at all. I commend you for knowing when you are not feeling spiritually fit enough to be in the same room as her when she is drinking.

At 12 weeks I would have been a goner had someone else in the house been drinking, and that's the God's honest truth.

If she gets upset about you leaving the room, that's on her, not you. You continue to do what you need to do for your own recovery. :ghug

But that is a question I have... She really was upset about my problem drinking. But...The way my recovery has affected her life now... "It's all about you and your recovery", It's (recovery) always the elephant in the room (at least for now, it's bigger than the drinking/pill popping elephant - mostly because I hid it so much).

She misses the drinking together, candles, music, fire... the romantic stuff. Before the downward spiral... She still only had one or maybe two, I had always lost count.

I think she forgets, at those times, how much I needed to quit. How much I have to lose if I relapse... That maybe she doesn't have to do "everything in her power..." That I'll just learn to "suck it up". I am in a monitoring program and the "stick" is losing my job - and that possibility keeps me from picking up. She has no idea how hard it can be.... I need some "carrots". :indiffere

Mark

Thanx Freedom - Most of the time I don't think it's a control thing. But Sunday night it was, partly. I was really looking forward to having her home and I was resentful when she poured herself one. I felt marginalized - yea, I was trying to control - but that plan failed.

I got lots of work to do on this issue. Sorry to be dominating this thread.

Mark

Thanx Anvilhead - Maybe as my recovery moves ahead, she will start hers. But, time takes time... I liked what you said and how you said it :)

I bet those enchiladas were awesome !!

Mark

Isn't it amazing how so many ideas of "romance" center around alcohol? If I could not have a good time if alcohol was not included, even one drink, then I'd take a good look at myself. Good luck with all!