Looking for advice - my wife is an alcoholic
 

Looking for advice, although I know there is no magic solution.

My wife has a drinking problem. I really want her to recogise the problem and I really want to help, but she is in complete denial about it. She drinks most evenings but every so often, usually at the weekend, it becomes a binge. She seems to reach a certain point of no return, at which point she just starts glugging bottle after bottle.

At these times, she undergoes complete personality changes.
Person 1 is the beautiful, intellegent, fantastic mother to our 2 children - the person I love. After a few drinks she turns into Person 2 - slurred speech, euphoric, loud, life and soul of the party. After more drinks and at the end of the night, she becomes person 3 - very depressed, sobbing, very (verbally) abusive to me. Recently, its taken a turn for the worse and she has started self abusing when in this state, by cutting her arms with a razor. Its nothing serious - only small scratches, but its very scary.

Eventually, I manage to get her to go to sleep.
In the morning she will wake up, no hangover and act as if absolutely nothing has happened. She's back to the person I know and love. If I try to raise the subject with her, or suggest that she doesn't start drinking the following day, I just get the silent treatment - she will not accept there's any sort of problem. Consequently, I just don't mention it and carry on as normal.

Our 2 beautiful daughters dont really know there's anything wrong - most of the 'bad stuff' happens late at night when they're in bed.

The trouble is, I know that its only going to get worse and sooner or later, one way or another, I'm worried that we'll end up with a trip to the hospital.

Some evenings (maybe 1 a week) she doesn't drink at all. Maybe this reinforces her belief that everythings under control. How do I get her to recognise her problem and allow me to help?

Any advice appreciated.

Your right, there is no magic solution. I bet she does know she has a problem and keeps drinking to push it away. I am sorry to tell you that It will only get worse.
As far as the kids not knowing...kids know more than we give them credit for. I know this because I was one of those kids who was supposedly oblivious to my parent's constant battles which kept me up all night, every night for my entire childhood and teenage years.
And her cutting herself....it IS a big deal. There are some serious issues here and I am not skilled in the area of being married or having kids around so you will have to wait til some more members come on with better advice.
Hang in there, there are many people here who have great advice. It may not be what you want to hear but I promise you it will be what you NEED to hear.
Sending you strength.

My husband and I had a similar dynamic (he is an alcoholic - I am a recovering codependent).

It seemed incredible to me that he didn't recognize his drinking as unhealthy.
I spent a lot of energy trying to convince him how harmful that amount of alcohol was to his body - his psyche - our family.

I gave him literature on alcoholism and medical options for treatment.
I wrote him poetry about how much I loved him and how willing I was to support him during his struggle.
I cried and pleaded and begged him not to follow his father's path into addiction - for the sake of our son.

Nothing worked.
All of my reasons for him to quit fell on deaf ears. Not because he's a bad and heartless man, but because he is a man who is compelled to drink alcoholically. His brain demands the drug and twists its reasoning around to accommodate that demand. Trying to explain reality to someone in that state is definitely a losing proposition.

It's heartbreaking to experience the alcoholic's denial.
But I found that I was in denial, as well.
I told myself that he wanted to get better. I believed that he wanted to get better, even though there was ample evidence to the contrary.

My husband would occasionally, after a particularly hard night of drinking, tell me that he wanted to quit. He'd say it - he even went to treatment - but he wouldn't actually stop drinking. He wasn't ready.

I had to get out the way. Step out of his business and take over my own. I had enmeshed myself in his struggle to the point that I felt physically ill when he drank. It crushed me.

But I came here. I realized and began to fully accept that it is not my fault that he drinks. I started trying to live my life without relying on his ability to stay sober. That meant rearranging our financial and housing situations, our childcare arrangements, and my general ideas about the emotional support I could expect from my partner.

He still drinks. Today I can honestly say that I have peace and happiness. I will always pray for his recovery, but I no longer depend on it.

Alcoholism is a hard pill to swallow.
I'm glad that you're here, Haddock.

I wish I had a magic answer for you.
Keep posting.
-TC

Welcome. I suggest educating yourself on alcoholism, perhaps going to AlAnon or getting individual therapy. The more you learn, the better you will be able to figure out what you need and want to do for yourself and your children.

Welcome Haddock!

I am the recovering alcoholic wife in our family dynamic.
All I can offer is my experience, strength and hope.
I knew I had a problem and I lived in fear that my husband would bring it up.
In fact, I WAY overcompensated in every other area to make it harder for anyone to complain about me.

But if I admitted I had a problem, that would mean that I had to do something about it, which was even more terrifying than what I was doing to myself.

I have now been sober for over six months and I am finally free. I can not tell you what a relief it has been to finally admit my problem and today, the thought of a life without "numbing out" does not scare me.

I had to bottom out and it was not pretty. Thank goodness no one was hurt. All I can suggest is that you take care of yourself. Being a watchdog will not help her to stop and it will make you crazy. But if you make the decision to take care of YOU, then maybe, just maybe, your wife will see that her drinking does not just affect her. This is what I thought. I was super wife, super employee and super Mom and then I started drinking at about 6 pm. I wasn't hurting anyone, or so I thought. But looking back now, if my husband had gone to Alanon to take care of himself, maybe I would have woken up a little sooner? I don't know this for sure but I DO know that my husband would not have suffered as much if he had taken care of himself instead of trying to take care of me, worry about me or developing resentments toward me.

I wish you all the VERY best. If there is anything I can help with, please do not hesitate to ask.
Best.

I'm no expert, but this is not good at all. You, as her husband, do have some options such as having her held for observation in a hospital for a period of time. The laws differ between states I believe.

Thanks for advice so far.

The cutting could indicate the existence of an additional problem; self-mutilation (such as cutting) is one of the criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and substance abuse is common in those suffering from BPD.

My abf exhibits many traits of BPD though not self-mutilation (in the form of cutting though his alcoholism is of course very self-destructive). Namely extreme emotional/verbal abuse and "splitting" (tendency to see things/people in black/white i.e. all good or all bad); he also has deep abandonment issues which he acknowledges.

To cope with the outfall of the abuse, the books Tears and Healing and Meaning from Madness have helped me greatly (both of these specifically address the so-called abusive personality disorders (including Borderline)). Also the Stop Walking on Eggshells book and workbook which were developed from the online support group (Welcome to Oz) for those with BPDs in their lives (these resources can be found through BPD Central - a dot-com). Tears and Healing and the author's other titles are available online from the Tears and Healing web site - also a dot-com (I am unable to post links). Tears and Healing also specifically deals with the issues involving decisions whether to leave or stay when marriage and children are involved (the author is a male who was married to a dually diagnosed BPD/alcoholic).

Though educating myself about BPD has been helpful for me in coping with my bf's behaviors, most professionals would probably agree that substance abuse must be addressed before any co-existing mental issues can be dealt with. And raising the possibility of BPD to a loved one who may be suffering from the disorder is not advised (this is explained in Stop Walking on Eggshells). The Tears and Healing series are useful for anyone suffering from the abusive behaviors caused by personality disorders and/or substance abuse/alcoholism alone (though not all alcoholics are abusive, many are); many of these behaviors (whether caused by a personality disorder or substance abuse) are similar and often impossible to distinguish.

I would not bet the store on this, haddock. I was one of those daughters who supposedly never knew and never suffered because "it all happened late at night". It took me many years to recover from my parents' alcoholic-enabler dynamic.

I would second Barbara's suggestion that you embark on a program of education for yourself. This forum is a great source of information to start - there are lots of great Sticky posts at the top of the forum that I found really useful. Al-Anon meetings helped me too, as well as a bit of counseling. I learned about enabling, and how I was not only decreasing the chances that my alcoholic X would choose to seek help, but also damaging myself.

That your wife is now into self-mutilation is a huge sign that something is at work here that's much greater than just a compulsion to drink. She sounds similar to my eldest sister, who was funny and kind when sober, but when drinking it escalated into being a loud, attention-seeking drunk, then a sobbing, tortured drunk after that.

With alcoholism, love just isn't enough. Your wife needs professional help, and I hope she gets it. Mostly, though, I'm glad you found us. This forum is a great source of support and inspiration.

Hugs,
GL

Haddock:

I'm new here so I don't know how to do the quote thing but I really want to echo what others are saying.

I, too, was the 'child in bed and too young to realize what was going on." I knew something was wrong, I could feel the stress in the house and eventually I realized dad was always drunk at night and mom was sad.

I'm 46 years old and when I think about those days I can still feel now how I felt inside then.

I'm so sorry you are going through this with your wife. I don't want to come across as cruel but I also don't want you to kid yourself that your kids don't know and therefore aren't being effected. They know.

Kaye

big hugs, i am the wife of an alcoholic and do not pledge to have any answers, but to echo the words of other it does get worse, so much worse before you get yourself better, your wife may or may not choose to do the same, and it is so so so so hard to accept the fact that you can and will have very little effect on your wife's choice to recognise and deal with her problems, as for the children i truely truely believed my babies (3 & 1) were far to young to know anything bad was happening (we didn't even fight) but the difference in the children since we've left speaks volumes, as others have said keep coming back, try not to be too hard on yourself (or your wife it'll only make you feel worse) when your ready you'll know the answers, just try to take care of yourself and your babies, there's some wonderful advice around here, and some great literature on codependancy (if you feel that may apply!
good luck xxx

Your children are being harmed by her drinking. You need to protect them. You should not stay in a situation where they're being harmed.

Here's what works: take the children and leave. Before you go, consult an attorney. I would also document her alcohol problem by taking her to the hospital ER when she is drunk and self-injuring. If you tell the ER doctors that she is a danger to herself, they may admit her on a 24 hour psych hold. You can use that evidence in court to get custody and limit her visitation.

If you're not ready to leave, you can give her the treatment option. Find out what treatment you have available for her and make arrangements for her admission. Take her to the ER during one of her drinking and self-mutilating bouts. When she sobers up, tell her that she can go to treatment or you're taking the kids and leaving. Before you do all this consult a divorce attorney, so that you are ready to leave when you need to leave.

Loving her isn't enough to make her better.

I'm back! 6 months later.

We've had many bad days, but thought we had a breakthrough about a month ago. After a particularly bad and embarrassing night (passing out at the local bar and being carried home) and after waking up on the floor the next morning, she admitted she had a problem and resolved then and there to do something about it. She went a full week without drinking, but then had 'just one'. She explained that this was ok, she would have 'just one' every now and then, as she didn't want to be 'the sort of person who can't have a drink'. You can guess the rest... One became two and about 2 weeks later, she had another major blowout and now, a few weeks later basically we are back to where we started.

The self-harming does seem to have stopped completely since I completely ignored it -it was very minor anyway and was just attention seeking I think.

I have taken much of the advice given above and learned more about the condition. I try to avoid 'enabling' and avoid reacting when being verbally abused. I live in hope that she will one of these days recognise that the only way to beat this will be to give up completely.

Questions:

When she has that first drink in the evening, is she thinking about how the evening will almost certainly end, or does she believe that she will have just a few and stop? Should I say anything at this point or try to intervene while she is still sober -or is it pointless?

Is it possible to beat alcoholism and still have one or two drinks, or is recovery only possible by stopping completely?

Thanks.

Is it possible to beat alcoholism and still have one or two drinks,

NO

or is recovery only possible by stopping completely? YES.

She's doing something quite typical... self denial and controlled drinking. I'd consider it only a pause in the spiral of alcoholism.

Haddock,

I can't add much to what's already been said, except to say that in describing your wife, you could have been describing me in active addiction. I was a PTA mom, very involved with my kids, kept a nice house, cooked three meals a day -- and every evening, after I picked up my first drink, I changed. Quickly to Person 2, and eventually, went straight to being Person 3. When you hear that alcoholism is chronic, progressive, and fatal, I can assure you from my own experience, I believe it to be true.

But the one thing I really wanted to add -- don't think your daughter's have been spared. Once I got sober, I found that my kids were not asleep like I thought they were and that they knew much, much more about the condition I was in than I believed. I thought that so long as I postponed drinking until they were in bed, I could go on being their hero mommy. It's years later now, and we've repaired much of the damage, but it's taken a lot of work.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

I am so sorry to hear that you are going through all of this. My exabf of 5 yrs was the exact same way...like most alcoholics. I used to call mine boyfriend 1 and boyfriend 2. Boyfriend 1 was an amazing person. I used to always say that he was everything i wanted in a man when he was in this state. Boyfriend 2 was a horrible thing to be around...he became a person that I did not even recognize.

I hate to hear that a family is going through this!!! You unfortunately can not convince her that she is an alcoholic. I tried for soo many yrs to convince and it never helped....it ended up making me very sick in the end. All you can do is try and take care of yourself and your little ones. Alanon and this website have been a great tool for myself in keeping me somewhat sane while going through the rollercoaster ride. The only good advice to give you is to follow through with what you say. If you set your bounderies then don't go back on them. I would always set bounderies and always let him cross over those bounderies b/c i wanted to try and keep the peace with us but in the end it only hurt the situation more.

I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.:praying

No and I honestly believe that now. I had to learn the hard way with this one. My exabf also many of times convinced me that he could have one or two drinks or just drink on the weekends. He was great at first and I actually convinced myself that he must have just been going through a bad spell in his life. Well as you can guess that only lasted for so long.

He also did not want to be that guy that was not able to drink. It is a hard thing for an alcoholic being that alcohol is so accepted in this society and made to look like sooo much fun but unfortunately there is no other solution then to say no to even one

I believe that with any kind of hard core addiction the only way to stay sober is to never touch it again. My dad who was not an alcoholic but a smoker who has not touched one in 20 yrs says to this day that at times he still wants one but knows that if he smokes one that he would be at a pack a day again before the week is over.

This disease is horrible and very very confusing and frustrating. Just know that you are not alone.

This happens because she is an alcoholic. She cannot pick up like normies. She metabolizes alcohol different. I can have a drink and walk away. It doesn't spiral out of control. It will continue to happen this way. It will not stop until she hits her bottom and is able to admit she has no control over alcohol; that HER LIFE has become unmanageable.

Question #1 - I don't know how an addict thinks. I am not an addict.

Question #2 - It is pointless for you to intervene. Just as that held true six months ago, it holds true today.

Question #3 - An alcoholic cannot drink. At least, I've never seen a single A I've known - and I've known many - who could pick up normally.

QUESTIONS FOR YOU HADDOCK: When are you going to get off her side of the street and respect her right to drink herself into a stupor? When are you going to try out a program for yourself that could help you? Because whether or not you realize it, YOUR LIFE has become unmanageable due to focusing all your efforts on someone else's addiction. You have zero control over what your wife chooses to do. Zero.

You do have an opportunity to manage your own life and affairs and get the focus on you. Again, as has been suggested previously, give Al-Anon a try. You will find support in those rooms and people who understand how you feel and what you're going through.

I wish you the best.

Replace "she" with "I" in your above comment. That is what you will eventually recognize. I'm really sorry for your struggles. We've ALL been there. Take care of yourself and your children. Do what you have to do to protect them. They already have one sick parent. Save yourself, for their sake.

Haddock,
I am sorry that you are still living with an active alcoholic. I feel very sorry for her as well.
I replied to your thread six months ago and in 5 days I will have a year sober.
Not a day goes by that I don't remember where I came from and am so grateful to be a sober wife and mother today.
This last week I made my amends to my husband and my son (17). It was hard to really face what I had done to them when I was drinking and thought I was hurting no one but myself. But not only do I have their forgiveness today, I have earned their respect. I wish that for your wife.
But for you and the kids, I wish peace. As you have been told all over this thread, it is up to you to bring that into your and your kids life. Keep reading, keep posting and get to Alanon!
Best of luck!!!

As the wife of a recovering alcoholic my heart goes out to you.
I give you SO much credit for being able to recognize that your wife is an alcoholic. I couldn't see that with my husband, even after the third time we landed in the ER because he punched a wall and sprained/broke his fingers. I didn't see it when he came home from work drunk and continued to drink. I didn't see it when it escalated and he got physical with me and I had to call the cops. I even had trouble seeing it when he started going to AA.
When he was drinking, he would quit for 1-3 months and I would believe it would be ok. Then he would have "just one or two", then just one or two more, and more and more. Expecting an alcoholic to have just one or two, would be like telling my dog to have just one or two treats when the entire box is in front of him. He just can't do it.
Alcoholics are "allergic" to alcohol. Someone deadly allergic to peanuts wouldn't have just one or two, so neither can an alcoholic.
I wish you luck on your journey....

Hi Haddock: I am the alcoholic wife, sober today, attending AA, seeing an addiction therapist and working the 12 steps. When you described your wife in your first post, that was me to a T: boy did I recognise the 1,2,3 personalities of getting drunk.
She is thinking she will have just a few and stop. None of us want to think that it will turn out badly, so, no, she is probably not thinking: "now I'm going to get really drunk, scream at my husband, throw up and pass out". She is probably thinking: "I'll have a couple/three drinks and have a lovely evening". That's what I always thought, but it rarely ended that way. Sure, I had okay evenings. But as the disease progressed, nice evenings became the exception.

I wouldn't try to talk to her once she has started drinking. Then you are only talking to the bottle. If you want to have a serious talk with her, wait until the next morning. She will be having plenty of remorseful thoughts dealing with a hangover and your words will ring true. The next morning is also when the alcoholic desperately wants to stop the cycle of drinking...

If you can have one or two drinks and stop you are probably not an alcoholic. Recovery for most alcoholics is complete sobriety because we can't stop at one or two. Sometimes I would be able to have a couple of drinks per night, during my "control-my-drinking" stage. I would be able to keep that up for a few of days, but inevitably I found myself binging again and drinking the massive quantities again.

You can try doing a couple of things to impress on her how serious you think the problem is. First of all, I would stop drinking with her, and I would not recommend having any alcohol in the house. If she asks why, just simply say you don't like her behavior when she gets drunk. Don't mince your words either: use the word "drunk".

Don't go to bars with her. If you go to a party with her tell her you will leave if she gets drunk and give her money to take a cab home.

I would not take it for granted that she is only drinking at night. It is very possible she is drinking during the day. It is a progressive disease. And, I drove after I'd been drinking. Sure, I was careful to keep my driving excursions close to home and I drove early in the morning before I'd had too much to drink. But the fact is I was driving and drinking.
She may be doing this and I would address it if she is a driver and drives the kids around. I would ask her straight out if she drives after she has been drinking.
She'll probably say no, but it will give her a lot to think about.

As far as communication, just be objective and express your feelings. If you are really unhappy with her drinking and want her to stop, then tell her, just like that.

Well here we are 5 years on, about time for an update.
I know I've made big mistakes in not confronting or dealing with the issue properly earlier on, but at least my two daughters have had five years of relative 'normality'. Yes, on occasion, they have no doubt overheard things they shouldn't, but in the main, life has continued pretty normally for them with two functional parents.

Things continued in pretty much the same vein, although the pattern changed from time to time. The binges continued every month or so, sometimes more often sometimes less often. Basically I would just sit there and take the abuse (and it took me a long time to recognize that it was abuse). The pattern would be to say more and more hurtful things continuing on and on into the night. I would lock myself in the spare room, but was always forced out by her threatening to wake the kids. Eventually, I would have to leave the house to escape it. I would never go far as she would be in no fit state to be alone in the house with the kids. So I would therefore tend to hang around outside the house, keeping track of her movements and actions through the curtains until eventually she would crash to bed and sleep. I would then generally sleep in the car until morning. Over the following days, she would tend to not speak to me until we fell back into 'normality' a few days later. About a year ago though, the abuse stopped completely - the pattern changed again. She drank most evenings, but a lesser amount (still several bottles of wine). In some ways, this was even more difficult to live with. The bedroom would permanently reek of booze and her snoring was unbearable. I would dread going in and would often bail out to the spare room again. It all made for a very disturbed sleep pattern and it was getting completely unbearable. Often she would pass out in her chair downstairs which gave me a few hours of undisturbed sleep.

She became more and more lazy over the years. I work full time and she would lie in bed until 9 or 10am - the kids would get breakfast and get ready for school themselves. She would be taken a cup of tea (I actually did this every day before I left for work!). We had a cleaner to clean the house. She paid the kids to do all the ironing! I would say nothing, put up with it and carry on.

Now that I write this down, I can't believe that I actually did this and put up with it, on and off for about 7 years. I did succeed in completely covering up the problem. Unsurprisingly I guess, my feelings for her diminished and our physical relationship completely stopped about three years ago. We still continued the pretense that everything was fine. It turns out though, that she actually believed it.

A few months ago, I had a short relationship with someone I met at work and this came to light. I could have begged for forgiveness, but why the hell should I? the pretence was over.

Suddenly, everything came crashing down for her. Reality hit her like a bus. I became the arch-villain, the philanderer and the cad. How could I do this to her and the children? - she said. The divorce papers have been filed. The trouble is, I've done such a good job of covering it all up, that I now find myself unable to provide any proof that any of this isn't a figment of my imagination. I'm not bothered about the divorce, but I don't really deserve to be treated as the villain. Oh well - I guess that isn't the most important thing.

I know I should have done many many things differently.

I guess first off, Haddock, there was some REALLY good information from a few years back that I think was overlooked.

You likely were and are dealing with FAR more than just Alcoholism.

But Here and Now -- as far as where you are. A deeper stage of a collapsing Borderline Relationship.

Yes. You will be "painted black." For a far deeper and better understanding than I can present here, maybe start with:

Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners

There is whole section for Failed Relationship, kids, etc.

Well, there are some threads around here currently about a very recent separation, there are people divorcing. It is sad, yes, but you will find a wealth of experience.

haddock....i just now read your first post - it sounded so like my wife 3 years ago. I just knew your update would be a separation.....as is my current state (4 days in!)

I dont know what help it is - but my life was VERY like yours....only my wife cheated (she felt lonely because we drifted...because she was always drunk) and thats why I'm divorcing her.....but I'm still the villain.
I know what you mean about evidence.....my wife took me and my kids to hell and back, yet the vast majority of her friends believe her to be the victim of an unreasonable husband.....they even had a sleepover with her saturday, her first night away from the home, and all brought beer!

So find a way to not worry....posting here has (almost literally) saved my life....it's wonderful to be able to talk and have people understand - as opposed to "real life" where not everyone does (doing the school run past mums that stare at me like I'm a wife basher is grim....but I know I can post here and it ceases to matter)

You are not alone.

Thanks Lewis - appreciate that.

I am continuing discussions with my wife trying to persuade her to take her condition seriously. Basically, I'm not happy for her to be in charge of the kids while she is a drinking alcoholic. She has come back with a message to me today, supposedly having seen the doctor and another support group, saying they have confirmed the following to her:
Does anyone think this is a likely or valid diagnosis?

Wait...this has been going on since 2008...for over 5 years?? If you haven't been able to persuade her to take her condition seriously by now, you never will. The confirmation from those doctors/support group is BS and I'll bet she's making it up. Anyone who knows anything about alcoholism knows that those three conditions don't mean a thing.

Your children are now 5 years older. How much longer are you going to allow this to continue??

It is progressive. I promise those little ears that you think don't know anything is going on late at night will know eventually if they don't already. It will change your entire perspective.

My husband usto have what I call drunken amnesia. It made me livid mad because he would be a raving nut, wake up and not remember and pretend things should be all happy. In the mean time...I was pissed and he was wondering why. It was an evil cycle.

Until she realizes she has a problem it will not have any chance of changing. You cannot force it upon her.

I sugges meetings and therapy for YOU to decide what boundaries you can set for yourself and your children.

Also...the liklihood she told the doctor the truth about the extent of her drinking is next to nill. If it is causing you enough trouble in your life to seek help and be on here posting about it...it is a problem.

Good Luck and God Bless!