Is Co-Dependency all bad?
 

Just a question for all of the people further down the road than I am.

Are the behaviors that are shown here bad in a functional relationship?

I know they're bad in a dysfunctional or addictive relationship. If you have a very deep relationship in which there is a lot of communication, a lot of closeness, and no gamemanship, is getting a emotional reward from being with a person such a bad thing?

Redd

Redd, it is my opinion that codependency is bad in any relationship. Codependency is not healthy in any situation. It robs people of their responsibility for themselves. That includes their own well being. We aren't meant to control others. Only ourselves. We aren't meant to solve other people's problems. Only our own. That doesn't mean we can't have compassion and can't be supportive. Just that there is a line that can be crossed and it's not healthy for anyone to cross that line.

Good answers.... basically the difference between a really emotionally close relationship and co-dependency is the motive behind the actions. A good relationship has actions that support or help the other, and the expectation that the other will help you. A co-dependent relationship has one person enabling the other, and taking responsibility for their shortcomings. The secondary part of this is that the help is "taken for granted" by the person helped, and there is no returning support.

Redd

codependency has worn me out, whether or not an A is involved. If I'm codependent, I tend to determine MY self worth by the other person's behavior. If they're upset, it must have been something I did. I was always trying to run around, smooth things over and keep everyone ELSE happy....and I lost my own happiness along the way. I didn't see this, though, until I started stepping back and let people handle their own issues.

Hugs and prayers!


Amy

Redd, my husband and I are a classic example of codependency gone wrong! 19 years of an alcoholic marriage destroyed both of us. His drinking wasn't the only problem. I became codependent and took "control" of his responsibilities. The more I did that, the more I took away from who I was. He stopped being responsible, I took over, he never dealt with the consequences, I took on more, he blamed me for all that was wrong in his life including his drinking, I accepted that and tried more. On and on and on. I stopped existing as a person and was just this shell that was being eaten away by someone elses addiction. No real happiness, serenity, peace, sense of being.

He is recovering now and so am I. Guess what? It's flipping hard. He's used to me taking care of everything and doesn't know how to do it for himself. The difference this time is that I am not stepping in any more. I am stepping back. I am making him make his own decisions. I am not wearing myself out trying. Trying to do, trying to fix, trying to control. All done!!!

Example: He laminated his social security card years and years ago. He now needs it to try and get himself out of some of his legal troubles. So he needs to go to the social security office to file for a replacement card. In the past, I would have taken time off from work, driven him, resented doing it and made things more hectic for me in an already hectic schedule. This time, I printed out the location of the office, gave him the bus schedule, reminded him of people who had offered help with rides and left it at that. Know what? He did it. He managed and in the process I kept my sanity.

Amy,

Your response makes me question my own co-dependency. The environment I'm in is different that what you note. What happens is that the AW will get upset, say or do goofy or mean things, and then not tell me what caused the action. Or, she will get upset because of something I do, that to me, is perfectly rational. She worries about the level of attention she gets from me, or how much I desire to please her, and acts on those feelings.

I understand that people have bad days and can be grouchy. What I don't understand is when people act out, and punish other people in their lives because they have issues.

So.... I think to a certain extent, co-dependency is not what I'm suffering... I'm suffering emotional and mental blackmail.

Aha!

Redd

Are you in an Al-Anon group? Do you have a sponsor? Are you working your steps?

If you answered NO to any of these questions, my suggestion to you would work on yourself.

NOBODY here can give you enough advice until you work on yourself.

I look at it this way. We all have certain personality traits. They are neither good nor bad, they just are. How they manifest in terms of behavior is how we end up with healthy or unhealthy relationships.

For example, one of my traits is determination/persistence. This can be a really good thing at work, especially if I am solving a problem or working on a project. The same trait resulted in controlling behavior in my marriage. I just knew if I kept coming at it from different angles, I could get him to stop drinking. Another example that comes to mind is perfectionism. It can work for me in terms of learning and studying, but can also work against me if I begin to judge myself harshly and hold myself to impossible standards.

Just because some of my traits have manifested in codependent behaviors, doesn't mean I have to obliterate those traits. I just have to learn how to use them in healthy ways.

L

I don't know, but I'd suspect that a relationship between a serious co-dependent and an averagely emotionally "healthy" person would end up with frustrations in both directions. The co-dependent will be trying to control the other because of their ingrained habitual codie patterns of behaviour. Those behaviour patterns aren't all nice (and I'm speaking for my own personal codie issues here); martyrdom for example is, essentially, attempting to guilt-trip someone into doing what you want them to do. Quite a lot of codie behaviour is, in my opinion of my own past actions, an attempt at emotional manipulation of others. That's why the addict / codie dance goes on for so long; we're both playing the same game from different ends.

I'd imagine that the mythical "emotionally healthy" person would tire of the codie games quite quickly. The codie would also likely feel frustrated because there he is, playing the only role in a relationship that he knows how to play, but the other person isn't playing along. The responses are wrong, the other person would be honest about their feelings and failings but also wouldn't take on responsibility for the codie's feelings. I don't know if that's universal among codies but, in retrospect, I spent a lot of time thinking "My XAGF made me feel angry / upset / whatever" Nope. She was just being an alcoholic, doing what alcoholics do. It was me that took her thoughtlessness and selfishness personally.

Now, a codie who has a sense of where they've been going wrong and which of codie habits are unhealthy and who can take constructive criticism... Yes, then I can see that kind of relationship working. But an unreconstructed codie who is unaware of their issues is, I'd suggest, someone who is going to have relationship problems no matter what until they start to address it. I've been single now for a couple of years now because I want to be sure I'm emotionally ready to move on to a new relationship. And I've learned a lot about myself in this time, not least that I can rely on myself a lot more than I ever thought I could.

Mr B.

That's an interesting viewpoint Mr. B. and LTD. I have responsibility for my own feelings.. Even if she maliciously does things to hurt or bully me.

Redd

This is along the lines of what I believe. Caretaking- for instance- is not a bad thing when you are dealing with a child- but when you start doing it with an adult- it's a useful trait that goes haywire.

I am also a perfectionist in many ways- at work or school- a good thing. . . but like LTD said, I find it's not a good thing when I start to expect too much from myself. I can get a "B" in a class and be ok with it, but I didn't used to feel that way.

I think co-dependent behaviors are ok in certain situations and in small doses, but if you are dealing with an addiction, those behaviors tend to increase over time and get blown way out of proportion. The bottom line for me these days is to take care of myself and leave others to take care of themselves. That's not selfish- it's the way it should be.

But I wonder if it's codependent to focus too much feelings/thinking on another person? I don't know. . . but I do suspect that in a healthy relationship I wouldn't be worrying so much about what the other person is doing or not doing. I'd be free to live my own life and let him live his- but at the same time sharing our life together. Sharing is the key word for me- STBXAH was not engaged in our marriage. We didn't talk about life, our dreams, we didn't share responsibilities. But I spent an awful lot of time thinking about him and what he was doing- or not. I think I just answered my own question.

((Redd))

All interesting viewpoints.

My biggest indicator of whether I'm being codie is how I feel, in my gut about something. If someone is doing something and I'm getting that sick feeling, then I have to look at why...especially if an A is involved. Am I trying to make sense out of something that doesn't make sense? I'm a recovering addict...most of what I did when I was using didn't make sense to anyone but me or another addict.

I also understand the emotional/mental blackmail thing, but I have learned how to step back, realize it for what it is (someone trying to control or manipulate my thoughts and feelings) and accept that this is THEIR issue. It took me a long, long time to get to that point.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense...kinda hard to put into words what I'm thinking:)

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

Yes... I see all of those viewpoints. What's happening to me is that I'm getting punished for not being able to read someone else's mind, or for saying no. I don't want to take care, I want to share. However, I'm aggressively punished for not dancing to the fiddler's tune.

Redd

This quote from Anvil's reply is worth my reading it over and over...

Redd...
The codependant dance is all about denial. The controller is controlling the shots and doing all those things we talk about here. But it's an illusion because the true controller in this dance is the other person in this kind of relationship.

They set the mood, call the shots, cause the problems, blame the other person etc etc...because when I have an illusion of control I have created the perfect playground for all those behaviors to continue.

When I attend open AA and NA meetings...I've heard the codie referred to as 'their hostage'...it is a very accurate description except for one tiny detail.

I Thank God...I don't have to stay in that hostage role. When I do the work and take the suggestions of others I can break free of that and the insanity stops.

Whether I call myself a codependant or not does not matter. If that other person is running the show and running down their own life and everyone else's who is in their path...including me- it's a huge problem.

I can't stop a hurricane but I can evacuate the area, or take shelter; protect myself and learn not to be swept away by a force outside myself.

It's not about why or how, but about what actions take place on both sides of this.

Right... and I'm getting ready to evacuate.

More power to you, Red.

Hi, Redd, I believe in a healthy relationship, where both people are caring and honest, there should be no need for either one to have to control the other.
In the 2 marriages I have been in, the first one I felt I had to control everything because my X would have drank and did drink all our income away and there was/would have been nothing left for me to take care of our sons. In the second, my X was a dry drunk with stronger control issues than I had, and that caused even more upheaval.

In the marriages that I have seen that work, the ones that have been married for 30, 40 or 50 years, they seem to have mutual respect for each other and seem to work together to live a happy, healthy life. That doesn't mean that a one time or another one had to take control of certain situations, but that they were operating on the same emotional level and wanted the same things out of life, and worked as team to reach the goals. They all have had a great communication system going.

In my oppinion, a relationship that has a co-dependent in it means that there has to be a dependent. So one is taking all the control and the other is letting them. There is no teamwork involved. Only resentment on both sides for the other person. The codie in us can't understand why the other person doesn't appreciate all we do for them and the dependent resents having no control.

I have been on both sides of this issue, and neither one made me feel good about myself. That is why I have been single, also, for a few years, because I have to work out my own issues before I get into another relationship. I refuse to settle for anything less than an equal partnership if I ever take the plunge again,can't see me ever taking the plunge again, but I don't know what God has in store for me so I am leaving my options open.

So, I guess to answer your question, IMHO if there is co-dependency in a relationship, I don't believe it is a healthy place to be.

Barb