still here, still struggling
 

Sometimes (actually most times) I wonder if I should even be posting all my crap here since I can't imagine anyone really cares that much. It seems that you would be far more interested in helping someone who is trying harder or is more down on their luck.

I went on vacation and had either beer or wine each night and felt pretty good about it. I thought clearly about my choices and was able to stop without a problem. I was really happy about that (since moderation is what I'm aiming for right now).

Then I came home and got back to the same old grind. I got stinking drunk on vodka and had to leave the dinner table and go for a walk because I thought I was going to puke. Real nice. When I got home I went to bed (8:30pm) and no one asked any questions, not even my husband. So I said "that's it, obviously I have a problem". Then 4 days later I had the grand thought that I just need to drink less, aha, I found the solution. The following day I bought a bottle of wine thinking I would drink some and throw some out (portion control). Instead I almost finished it and walked to the store and bought another bottle.

I'm sorry I keep posting these irritating, complaining posts about drinking too much. I shouldn't be looking for sympathy since I'm not trying to quit 100%. I just want to stop the bad choice drinking. I really do moderate in the normal times, it's the stupid times that I can't get rid of. ugh.

Winelover - don't be sorry and I do care! Keep posting, venting, complaining.......whatever you want. I'm here to listen. I've been where you are and I know how mentally draining it can be. As far as moderating your drinking.....that's your thing.....some people can do it. I tried it many times, and I can't. But that doesn't mean you can't. You have to figure that out on your own. And while you're trying to figure it out, I'm here to listen. That's what this place is all about.

:)
~doll

I tried the "controlled" drinking too -- only to find it a whole lot of work to manage. It only works for a short time. it feels like you are trying to hold back a dam that is about to burst. I get tired just thinking about being hung over and managing the whole thing that really is still out of control. It is running your life.
Hope you find the strength to stop.

Thanks for offering a shoulder doll. I feel like such a whiner here and I'm kind of annoyed with myself. mngg, I think I agree with the "dam about to burst". That's actually why I allow myself a drink. The battle to say no is too hard so I think "what's the harm". I just know that vodka at 9am is not part of the moderation plan yet I still did it.

I think I want to stop but I'm scared that if I become a "non drinker" and I do want a drink sometime it will be considered a "relapse" rather than just partaking in a casual once in a while drink.

Pffft....if you think YOU are a whiner .. go check out some of my threads! ;)

Have you looked into the SMART recovery techniques WF?
Also there is Moderation Management....

Hugs...

the addiction counsellor we saw told D to think in terms of lapses rather than always as relapse. She said the important thing was to realise why it had happened and take action to stop the same thing happening again. At one point the lapses added up - D scared the poop out of himself and pretty much knew if he didn't stop them he would relapse. He hasn't drank since.

I think it's a balance in knowing that each lapse runs risks and those risks get higher as they add up. I believe what was being said was along the lines of take them seriously but don't lose hope that you can get back from it.

I count the time D spent largely not drinking as important to him and me - lapses didn't take those important things away but did put them at risk. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense. I do feel like I'm learning something about myself each time I drink in an inappropriate manner, but I haven't mastered stopping that behavior.

I know this sounds crazy, but I looked at SMART and was turned off. I like SR. I like the premise of MM, but I don't know if I can stick to just 1 drink each day. I kind of like having 2 or 3 once in a while. How long did all you folks that claim to have tried controlled drinking actually try it? How did you know that it wasn't working?

I hit my bottom the very last time I drank and was "trying" to manage it. I only bought a certain amount of wine so I wouldn't be too hungover. I ran out and liquor stores were closed, so I decided to drive to a neighborhood bar. Well, I got a DUI which was my 3rd in 10 years. I've lost my car forever, lost my license for a year, and will have to serve some jail time (have to go to court 5/11). So much for an alcoholics "controlled drinking"!!! I hope you manage it better than me! I was in so much denial about how bad my addiction is.

My dad, who has been sober for around 35 years, says he thinks the worst thing ever would be just to be able to have one drink a day. He said that's all you would think about. You'd never do anything else except for think of that next drink. He says the same thing with cigarettes. I think he's got a point.

With Moderation Management, I think a lot of the participants set their own number of drinks and try to stick with that. They focus on harm reduction, as well, which I think is an important thing. So, say you want to have 2 glasses of wine per night. That would be what you could have and you'd be moderating. Some people in MM also say they'll only drink on the weekends, etc. I think you can work the program your way, if you so choose, and be very successful at it.

Good luck!

Kathie

I know that there are some people who come here questioning whether they are alcoholic because they have 2 glasses of wine each night and the usual answer is "if you have to ask then you probably are". So where do you draw the line between drinking 2 drinks and being an alcoholic and drinking 2 drinks and "moderating"?

Thank you so much for your responses. I guess I'll just keep trudging away reducing the harm to myself. On the positive side, for the past couple months I've only overdone it about twice a week instead of 5 or 6 times. I'm off to bed sober and just a little happier now.

Personally, I don't like the "if you have to ask then you probably are" answer. I don't think it's always true. Some people worry more than others. You can't only ask that one question to decide if alcohol is a problem in your life. Is it effecting your job, your marriage, your kids, your health? Those are other important questions that can help you figure it out.

In my opinion, alcoholics can't moderate. "Normal" drinkers can......that's what they do without even working at it. Winelover, I don't mean to say that you can't moderate. May be you can. I'm just putting my own experiences down here and I will not judge you for attempting it. I hope it works out for you. It sounds like you're making some good progress with overdoing it less often. Just keep working at it!

~doll

For years and years I tried to moderate my drinking. I didn't want to let go of drinking, I wanted to drink normally. I can relate to what you are experiencing. The fact of the matter is, I can not, and will not ever be able to moderate my drinking.

It got to the point that something had to give. For sanity purposes, I had to give up drinking.

It is your right to choose to continue to try to moderate your drinking. Either you will be successful, or you will not. Knowing that, if you succeed, my hat goes off to you. If you do not, do not fret, you are one of many who has tried and failed.

Keep coming back and sharing. We all have struggled and clung on to our desires to have the best of both worlds. You are not alone in this. There is a solution and I hope you find it. You shouldn't feel you have no right to post here because you choose the path of moderation. You do, and you are helping me in remembering my struggles and my hurdles.

We all are at different stages of recovery. I have stood where you stand today. The only difference between the two of us is, I came to the realization earlier then you. I can still relate and remember. You will hit your point. I hope sooner then later. Best wishes to you...

Hi Winelover,
Each person must draw their own line, or if we persist too long our family or the police intervene and start drawing lines for us.

Drinking two drinks was never a problem for me or for anybody, it is when I cant drink two drinks that the problem occurs.

Besides, I did not want to drink two drinks, what is the point??? The mellow feeing others get is only something I can imagine, when I drink I want to drink, two drinks is for sissy's and heh, I want three or four or more. Buying small quantities was a joke for me, I am going to want more and it is an unpleasant feeling unless I continue to drink, so why start in the first place? I am an alcoholic and that means I am allergic to alcohol. I don't process it the way other people do, once it hits my system my brain and everything else reacts differently. A chain reaction starts and I am uncomfortable unless I keep drinking. So trying to moderate and be like other people is never going to be my reality, I am not like other people and the sooner I took action on the fact the better my life got. I am not better or worse I am just different.

You asked when people knew they couldn't moderate, I would have to say I always knew, I just used "moderating" as another excuse to keep doing what I wanted to do, drink. Some clear warnings were drinking Vodka in the morning and looking back I also thought I was doing well when I was only getting trashed once or twice a week.
In the end I had to stop because I could not keep up with my pal alcohol, it made me physically and mentally sick.

Only you can decide if you have a problem. If alcohol is not interfering with you health and happiness or your family life then keep moderating there is no reason to quit.
I persisted long after it was interfering with my health my happiness and my family and I am only grateful I am stopped again before I went too far and stopping was not an option for me. The obsession with alcohol can be overpowering and has been for me at times in my life.

I wish you every success with the path you choose, if you keep reaching out for information and trying to find your way you will.
Take care:)

>>So where do you draw the line between drinking 2 drinks and being an alcoholic and drinking 2 drinks and "moderating"?<<

Winelover:

I don't really concern myself with the label "alcoholic." Some people might say that this is the purest form of denial. I'm not denying that being alcoholic is part of me, but I am *not* my disease or my condition or my habit or whatever word you want to call it. So... what's the difference you ask? I guess the difference is only in the label. If you're an "alcoholic," and you're moderating, you are doing less harm to yourself and to those around you. If you're an "alcoholic" and drinking two drinks, you are still doing less harm to yourself and those around you.

I think the thing is, most people don't want to think of themselves as an "alcoholic," so if they can get away from that label they are much happier. In other words, an alcoholic is an alcoholic is an alcoholic, no matter how much they drink, so if I'm *not* an alcoholic, those two glasses of wine a night aren't a problem. BUT if I'm an *alcoholic* then those two glasses of wine ARE a problem.

In the end, the drink's the problem. If you think you shouldn't be drinking two glasses of wine a night (or two beers, or four vodkas or 6 gins), then alcohol is a problem. It's really not, "am I an alcoholic or not?" It's -- "is alcohol causing a problem for me?" I think that's the better question.

And let's face it -- there are three scenarios -- abstention, moderation, and full-tilt drinking. If you can't or don't want to do the first, and you have had too many consequences doing the last, then moderation might be the ticket. Not everyone can do it and those who have problems with alcohol might find that moderating is harder than quitting altogether, or that they can moderate for a time and then they slip up and overdo it occasionally, but get back on the moderation bandwagon after their slip. BUT, which is worse -- giving up and just saying to heck with it and drinking yourself to death day after day, or moderating?

Anyway, just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it as you wish!

Have a great day!

Kathie

"It got to the point that something had to give. For sanity purposes, I had to give up drinking".

That be me as well. I could not keep doing it to myself - the denial had ended, and it was either sanity or insanity. Drinking made me nuts - I thought everyone else thought I was nuts - and they were right!

Wine lover, stick around, and dont be concerned what others think. Its what you do with your life that is important.

Sorry you are still struggling, WL... yes, I do care -- it pains me to see another go through this...

Page 30 from the Big Book comes to mind:

Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were
real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily
and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is
not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized
by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink
like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he
will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of
every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is
astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or
death.


We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost
selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step
in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or
presently may be, has to be smashed.


We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the
ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic
ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we
were regaining control, but such intervals -- usually brief --
were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in
time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We
are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in
the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable
period we get worse, never better.

Winelover,
As I read it you are unable to make the deccision to stop drinking. It is just a step too far for you right now and I think that that is why you are grasping at the concept of moderation.
For someone like me the prospect of moderation is an impossible dream. If I were to try moderation I would be very soon back in the madness of insobriety.
You say in a couple of the posts above that you only overdo it a couple of days a week and that you drink vodka at 9 am. These two statements lead me to believe that you really do have a problem. Moderate drinkers do not drink at 9 am nor do they overdo it twice a week.
When the time is right for you to stop you will know it in your heart. It will be the only avenue left open to you unless you want to end up in the dead end of alcoholism. I hope you do as little harm to yourself and your family as possible between here and enlightenment.
Michael.
PS Do you think that your family don't know that you have a problem? When you go to bed drunk at 8.30 and nobody mentions it, the silence is more eloquent than any recrimmination.

((((Winelover))))

Glad you are still with us. I've missed you!

You asked about people's experiences with moderation and how we knew it didn't work, so, here's what i experienced:

After 13 years of sobriety, I decided I could drink wine in moderation. It followed about 9 years of not going to any meetings, having sudden career success, and lots of recognition in my field. i mention those last parts because, for me, the decision that i could all of a sudden safely moderate (read:"control") drinking alcohol was interwoven with feeling that I had been cured, had healed to the point of not being alcoholic, and, in hindsight, i see that i was, in fact, operating out of quite a bit of arrogance and willfulness.

For 3-4 years, I did drink 2-3 glasses of wine per week with no consequences. However, about a year ago, i noticed my life taking a nosedive. I wanted to drink more, more frequently, i wanted to isolate so I could drink in peace, i made poor financial decisions based on alcoholic grandiosity, i became depressed, i hated my life and what i had created, which was once so positive.

Before losing everything, in dec 2005 (almost 5 months ago) I quit drinking and came here to SR. After about a month, i decided to go to AA meetings and i am still going. I have to say, the biggest improvement is spiritual: I do have gratitude and humilty back. my finances are recovering as well as my health and other aspects of my life.

so, thats my ES & H in a nutshell. I knew it wasn't working when I wanted to drink daily and was cynical and grouchy, broke and ugly. Luckily, that was my bottom and not worse.
Hope this may help you.......And, I'm glad you are here sharing your experience. it helps me, too!