What is considered sober?
 

Here is a question for all of you. I have friend with a number of years of sobriety. Recently he told me that for awhile he had become complacent about his sobriety, almost ambivalent. He described it as "I have 10 years sober and I wanted to know was there anything else out there?' He said he had reached a point in his sobriety where he wanted to know what is was that he thought he missed about drinking so much. He described this as a months long process, where he decided that he would let himself have a drink one night. So he did.

He told me after he had that drink, that he realized that he didn't miss drinking, that it was like a breath of fresh air. He said he still considers himself a sober individual, which includes his 10 years of sobriety. I asked him "Do you feel like you should set a new date?" He said, "If I had continued to abuse alcohol, then I would have set a new date, but I have decided that after this moment, that I was content being sober?" He said, now I can move forward in my sobriety and if I ever decide to do this again, then I will set a new date.

Then he asked me what I thought and I said, "I don't know". I guess since you didn't go back into full blown using and did this for a specific reason, that your logic makes sense. But I'm only one person, so what does everyone think?

I wouldn't reset my date for that. Ten years is way longer than one day, if he had gone on a few week binge then yes reset day one. A while back I realized though with a big relief that at the end of the early struggle alcohol is just another bad habit. Sure those early months are doozies but get far enough and you start to be able to look from the outside in.

He's a lucky guy. There are people who go back out there and fall deeply back into their addictions.

I guess in the long run, he's the only one who can determine if his sober date needs to be reset. What is more troubling, perhaps, is that any among us could think there's anything good for us contained in a bottle. It seems reckless and serves as a good reminder that sobriety is a precious gift, one that needs to be safeguarded whether it's Day One or Year Ten.

How long ago was that drink?!

After 6 years of sobriety, I started off having 1 drink one night. And then a month or 2 later, another 1 drink. Then a trip out of the country - BAM, a full alcoholic blackout.

So no if it was just 1 drink, I'd say he can still claim being sober for 10 years, but I find it hard to fathom that one drink would be "enough". For me, the 1 drink I had confirmed that the sky didn't fall and my life didn't implode so I must certainly be cured. I proved to be very wrong on that front.

Up to him. I did something similar with weed after not smoking for about 8 years, 20+ years ago. I was curious what I'd think of it after all that time, so I got high, and I hated every moment of being stoned. I have no interest in going there with alcohol, since I know what happened with weed and since alcohol was far more destructive to my life and far more difficult for me to quit, but I can understand someone doing that and not considering it a "relapse".

Two things will tell. How accurate was the original diagnosis of alcoholism, remembering that hard drinkers can appear to be alcoholic, but can stop or moderate if they have a good enough reason.

The second thing is time. As Kittykat3 demonstrated, the clock is ticking in the alcoholic mind. " I had a drink. No consequences, no craving. Maybe I'm OK. Perhaps I' try another and see what happens, tick tick tick."

If he was misdiagnosed in the first place, it won't matter, but for an alcoholic to believe one drink is OK is a sure indication that the insanity/obsession is back. I mean seriously, doing that is as mad as running out in front of a bus to see if you will bounce.

My Friend Zac tried this experiment at ten years. He was dead in three months.

here's how it looks to me:
He said he had reached a point in his sobriety where he wanted to know what is was that he thought he missed about drinking so much.


he thought he missed something about drinking so much.

so then he drank.

and now, wow, he doesn't miss anything about drinking.

if that were me, i'd ask myself what, then, is it that i missed so much? if it's not drinking, then what i was feeling i was missing is still missing.
if i was indeed missing drinking, then it would make sense that having a drink would quench that missing.
which would lead me to believe...anyway, doesn't matter what i believe.

hm...being a few months away from 10 years myself, i wonder what he's done all these years to address this feeling of missing something? sounds like torture if you spend ten years missing drinking....

I believe that's up to him. The thing I have learned is that even one drink can awaken the zombie and can start the obsession. I hope he doesn't experience this.

I don't understand why he needed to drink to find out what he had missed about drinking? Shouldn't he have already known the answer to that question?

"... he realized that he didn't miss drinking, that it was like a breath of fresh air. He said he still considers himself a sober individual, which includes his 10 years of sobriety. I asked him "Do you feel like you should set a new date?" He said, "If I had continued to abuse alcohol, then I would have set a new date..."

Boy! Talk about justification and rationalization! Now there's something I gotta tell my sponsor.......one drink, and one still can count everything as continuous sobriety.

(o:

So he put a bullet in the chamber, spun the revolver, squeezed the trigger and that chamber was empty. That's what taking one drink would be like for me. Except every time I took one drink after long-term sobriety (6.5 years once and 7 years another time) I found that the chamber was always loaded.

But I agree that he is the only one that can decide if he needs to change his sobriety date. To thine own self be true.

I have a friend who got sober in 2007. Went to AA meetings and worked the program. Lived in a sober living situation. About two or three years later, he was having trouble sleeping and was prescribed Ambien. He took it, and in a sleep- walking state- unplanned- went to the store, bought a 12 pack, took it home and drank all of it. He has not had a drink since, but still reset his sobriety date.

In the case of your friend, I would say there is no need to reset the date- as long as that one drink remains just that- one drink. I'm still not sure why your friend felt the need to do that, since it could have very easily reawakened things and led to a binge- but he's free to make his own choice. I doubt most of us on here would be able to do that without being sucked down the drain into active alcoholism again.

One drink never did anything for me when I was a drunk, so I'm quite certain it would do nothing for me now.

I think ten years is a long time, and his count is his own.
I can say for me that I also "wondered" about drinking after 11/2 years.
I think it is pretty normal to do that.

I tried "moderating" and reset my sober date, but like him, I now realize
I truly don't ever want to drink again, not just that I can't drink.

The bottom line is that we have to decide for ourselves what our goals and and motivations are. The big book of AA tells us that some people need to do some more experimenting before they decide if they want to be sober. I may be the only one who thinks this but if sobriety was bothering him and he needed to take a drink to determine if he wanted sobriety or not...that's not a bad thing...maybe. Now, of course, we don't know what could happen from here on out? Is the alcohol allergy a real thing? Will this trigger a horrific, years long relapse? We don't know. I certainly hope not. My AA sponsor got sober on her own at 22 (no AA) and had a glass of champagne on her 30th birthday and realized that she was really sick...she said she felt that poison go through her veins and she knew she was not going to get away with it and it scared the hell out of her. She has never had a drink again and she is in her early 60s.

I'm not one for marking one's self worth or quality of sobriety by a number of years without a drink. That being said, I don't think he should be getting an 11 year chip at an AA meeting because chips are for "continuous sobriety." Most of the meetings I attend are big book step study meetings and many of the old timers have never taken a chip....ever...because they do not measure sobriety in a temporal way...more so by the program of recovery, the steps, a spiritual awakening, work with others etc.

It takes absolutely nothing away from me no matter what the heck this guy says. Or does. I would just note his statement as a piece of information. Why assign a value judgement? No skin offa my nose either way. Suit yourself, buddy. If collecting chips and tokens is important to you, fill your boots.

Would I take a drink to see if I remembered what it was like? No. Would I claim uninterrupted sobriety if I did? See question 1.

What you wrote FormerBeerLover!

+1 FormerBeerLover. I never wanted one drink and I still don't. I want them all.

9 months and still going...

If the friend is an AA member, then I assume he should abide by AA rules\guidelines regarding continuous sobriety in his count, but the post doesn't say if he attends AA. I think its up to the individual to know himself, his actions and intent and to make his own decision on how to account for his sobriety.

I think it's important to keep in mind, nearly always we drink again as the end result of a process, probably a long process if we've been sober a long time. It's never a "what the hell" moment, not if we think carefully about what happened before that drink, what we did or didn't do, how we did or didn't stop and analyze what was happening and respond to it before the drink.

Drinking again would be deadly for me, but not because of the drink, not at all. It would be because of all that would have to happen before the drink, a process that would lead me to completely disregard all the wisdom I've gathered in the past six years, throw it all away, and never seek support before the drink. That process would upend my life, change who I've become, reprogram deeply ingrained parts of my identity. Only then could the drink come, and it would destroy me because of all that went before the drink.

But that's me. Not everyone is as committed, not did everyone go as deep into the rabbit hole as I did.

I think that's so smart. There's lots of people who totally get hung up that they had one drink, think they threw away ten years of sobriety and then make an excuse to drink again that since they lost those ten years what's having another drink. He had one, realised it had no charm, and stopped. The ten years didn't stop being sober just because of that :P

I think the most prevailing results are when people realise alcohol isn't magic. It's just a dumb drug that shuts off parts of your brain and hits you with dopamine. It's like the successful unromanticification of alcohol. It didn't regain romance when he tried it again because it had already lost its romance permanently. Some people even sober still romanticise it, and they are heavily at risk because of it.

It was interesting reading everyones responses after I talked to my friend again. This quote right here, basically explains how he explained it to me. He said it was a process that he had been going through for sometime where he came to a cross in the road and always went left. After going left every time and coming back to the same place, he needed to know what was down the road that went right. I thought that was an interesting description of what he had been experiencing. As for the AA thing and continuous sobriety, he hasn't picked up a chip since his first year and pops into a meetings once or twice a year at the most, usually around his birthday.

I think the main thing is to remember we seek progress not perfection. If we stumble, pick ourselves up and remember to watch out for the those pitfalls as we continue on our journey. Me personally, I'm at 5 years myself, but I remember my first time around, when I was close to obtaining 6 months, but I relapsed and continued drinking that weekend primarily because I felt so guilty, that I had blown it and threw it all away. I'm glad that he was able to brush this off as something that needed to happen, but wasn't going to change his resolve for being sober.

I'm glad there were no bullets in chamber for him this time, what happens from this point only time will tell, I just hope he never picks up the gun again.

He can justify the drinking all he wants. He drank and no longer has 10 years of continuous sobriety. There's nothing wrong with that and as long as he's honest it is what it is. If he attends AA meetings though and tells people he has 10 years sober he's being dishonest and that's not fair to other people who may actually be 10 years sober. If he's honest and says he had 10 years and decided to drink but didn't like it and now he's back to sobriety that's great and may save others from taking that right hand turn down the road.

I thought this post was interesting, because it went against the grain of the rest of the group. He doesn't attend AA meetings, but what does his sobriety have to do with someone else's and fairness? Why is it not fair to someone else? I just ask that question, because usually when someone uses the word fair, it's because something will effect another person, but maybe not someone else. In this case, sobriety is a personal thing and only the person will be sufferer of their transgressions. What was your meaning?

"As for the AA thing and continuous sobriety, he hasn't picked up a chip since his first year and pops into a meetings once or twice a year at the most, usually around his birthday."

I wouldn't be able to show my face and claim uninterrupted sobriety at a meeting if I had one beer. I've tried it and felt way too guilty. One of AA's principles to live by is honesty. Claiming continuous sobriety when it wasn't continuous would be dishonest....for me.

TheEnd, my commit was more geared towards him attending AA and telling others in the program that he has 10 years. You mentioned he shows up to meetings at his anniversary and if next year he tells people he has 11 years of sobriety that's a smack in the face to the person next to him receiving a coin who actually has 11 years of continuous AA sobriety.

He accomplished a great goal of going 10 years without a drink but if he claims 11 years next year than that is claiming and taking credit for an accomplishment he will not have actually accomplished. This is unfair to those who have accomplished that goal. You are correct though and if he never tells anyone anything than no one will know but him.... and all of us. : )

I don't know if my ramblings made sense. If I could talk to you I think I could better explain my thoughts. Your friend did really have a great run and I hate to see him tarnish that accomplishment by not being honest to himself and others.

I can't understand the judgmentalism. Not everyone who goes to an AA meeting buys into any kind of program, or counts days as a kind of pecking order, or even necessarily defines sobriety in the same way (for example, I personally think the guy with a beer in 10 years is doing much better than the guy with no beers in 10 years but with daily benzos). Some support groups make a deliberate effort to emphasize that if you trip, you don't lose your sober time, you just tripped - the point being to try to destigmatize a short period of lapse so that it doesn't turn into a catastrophic guilt-ridden month-long binge. Different strokes.

I was trying to not be judgemental. If the person using benzos everyday is abusing them and not using then as prescribed that he isn't sober either. The group I got into is kind of hardcore so that's where I get it from. Using NA beer in my group also resets your sobriety date. They really emphasize the importance of understanding that alcoholism isn't about alcohol, it's about how you think and how you use alcohol or other substances to change how you feel so you don't have to deal with life on life's terms as they say. That's why you often hear that alcohol isn't our problem but our solution and AA helps you find another solution.

I think if you call a relapse a trip or a slip and not what it really is than it will probably lead to more and more trips until you trip yourself right into oblivion.

These are times I need to remind myself to read pages 60-63 and be more understanding of those who don't view the program the same way it was shown to me. Like I try to say, as long as you and your family are happy that's ultimately all that matters.

EXACTLY. Date, schmate - he is a lucky guy who played with fire.

I agree, but I question whether that can be accomplished by lying.