I think that's so smart. There's lots of people who totally get hung up that they had one drink, think they threw away ten years of sobriety and then make an excuse to drink again that since they lost those ten years what's having another drink. He had one, realised it had no charm, and stopped. The ten years didn't stop being sober just because of that :P

I think the most prevailing results are when people realise alcohol isn't magic. It's just a dumb drug that shuts off parts of your brain and hits you with dopamine. It's like the successful unromanticification of alcohol. It didn't regain romance when he tried it again because it had already lost its romance permanently. Some people even sober still romanticise it, and they are heavily at risk because of it.

It was interesting reading everyones responses after I talked to my friend again. This quote right here, basically explains how he explained it to me. He said it was a process that he had been going through for sometime where he came to a cross in the road and always went left. After going left every time and coming back to the same place, he needed to know what was down the road that went right. I thought that was an interesting description of what he had been experiencing. As for the AA thing and continuous sobriety, he hasn't picked up a chip since his first year and pops into a meetings once or twice a year at the most, usually around his birthday.

I think the main thing is to remember we seek progress not perfection. If we stumble, pick ourselves up and remember to watch out for the those pitfalls as we continue on our journey. Me personally, I'm at 5 years myself, but I remember my first time around, when I was close to obtaining 6 months, but I relapsed and continued drinking that weekend primarily because I felt so guilty, that I had blown it and threw it all away. I'm glad that he was able to brush this off as something that needed to happen, but wasn't going to change his resolve for being sober.

I'm glad there were no bullets in chamber for him this time, what happens from this point only time will tell, I just hope he never picks up the gun again.

He can justify the drinking all he wants. He drank and no longer has 10 years of continuous sobriety. There's nothing wrong with that and as long as he's honest it is what it is. If he attends AA meetings though and tells people he has 10 years sober he's being dishonest and that's not fair to other people who may actually be 10 years sober. If he's honest and says he had 10 years and decided to drink but didn't like it and now he's back to sobriety that's great and may save others from taking that right hand turn down the road.

I thought this post was interesting, because it went against the grain of the rest of the group. He doesn't attend AA meetings, but what does his sobriety have to do with someone else's and fairness? Why is it not fair to someone else? I just ask that question, because usually when someone uses the word fair, it's because something will effect another person, but maybe not someone else. In this case, sobriety is a personal thing and only the person will be sufferer of their transgressions. What was your meaning?

"As for the AA thing and continuous sobriety, he hasn't picked up a chip since his first year and pops into a meetings once or twice a year at the most, usually around his birthday."

I wouldn't be able to show my face and claim uninterrupted sobriety at a meeting if I had one beer. I've tried it and felt way too guilty. One of AA's principles to live by is honesty. Claiming continuous sobriety when it wasn't continuous would be dishonest....for me.

TheEnd, my commit was more geared towards him attending AA and telling others in the program that he has 10 years. You mentioned he shows up to meetings at his anniversary and if next year he tells people he has 11 years of sobriety that's a smack in the face to the person next to him receiving a coin who actually has 11 years of continuous AA sobriety.

He accomplished a great goal of going 10 years without a drink but if he claims 11 years next year than that is claiming and taking credit for an accomplishment he will not have actually accomplished. This is unfair to those who have accomplished that goal. You are correct though and if he never tells anyone anything than no one will know but him.... and all of us. : )

I don't know if my ramblings made sense. If I could talk to you I think I could better explain my thoughts. Your friend did really have a great run and I hate to see him tarnish that accomplishment by not being honest to himself and others.

I can't understand the judgmentalism. Not everyone who goes to an AA meeting buys into any kind of program, or counts days as a kind of pecking order, or even necessarily defines sobriety in the same way (for example, I personally think the guy with a beer in 10 years is doing much better than the guy with no beers in 10 years but with daily benzos). Some support groups make a deliberate effort to emphasize that if you trip, you don't lose your sober time, you just tripped - the point being to try to destigmatize a short period of lapse so that it doesn't turn into a catastrophic guilt-ridden month-long binge. Different strokes.

I was trying to not be judgemental. If the person using benzos everyday is abusing them and not using then as prescribed that he isn't sober either. The group I got into is kind of hardcore so that's where I get it from. Using NA beer in my group also resets your sobriety date. They really emphasize the importance of understanding that alcoholism isn't about alcohol, it's about how you think and how you use alcohol or other substances to change how you feel so you don't have to deal with life on life's terms as they say. That's why you often hear that alcohol isn't our problem but our solution and AA helps you find another solution.

I think if you call a relapse a trip or a slip and not what it really is than it will probably lead to more and more trips until you trip yourself right into oblivion.

These are times I need to remind myself to read pages 60-63 and be more understanding of those who don't view the program the same way it was shown to me. Like I try to say, as long as you and your family are happy that's ultimately all that matters.

EXACTLY. Date, schmate - he is a lucky guy who played with fire.

I agree, but I question whether that can be accomplished by lying.

It's not lying if in his mind, one drink doesn't affect sobriety and it wasn't a "relapse". I guess that's the point, it's up to him to make that call and we're not in his head. Again, one drink would be the end of me, but apparently it wasn't for him, and perhaps it was something he needed to do. We also don't know his history, how far down the rabbit hole he went.

I think this is one of the best observations I've read on SR about why we cannot "go back out there." Thanks, Grungehead.

I think you've summed it up very nicely here, Jeffrey. Your experience and wisdom shines through.

I said before how I didn't understand why he needed to drink. That he should have known the answer as he pondered. For me I would consider that one drink failure. Especially considering he's an AA guy. I hope and pray that one drink was his honest to gods last one.

It was interesting reading everyones responses after I talked to my friend again. This quote right here, basically explains how he explained it to me. He said it was a process that he had been going through for sometime where he came to a cross in the road and always went left. After going left every time and coming back to the same place, he needed to know what was down the road that went right. I thought that was an interesting description of what he had been experiencing.

this is what sounds crazy-denying to me.
why would i need to turn right toknow what was down the road that went right.?
wasn't it the road to the right that got him exactly to the place where he quit? taking the road to the right...it sounds more like he "forgot" what's down that road.

getting to a place after ten years where we need to go see what's down the road that got us to the place of turning in the other direction...this is where i see the importance of this "story", not what the guy does with his date.

If your friend is at peace with it, then I say let sleeping dogs lye.

It would affect someone else if you were trying to paint the picture 'look at me, I never had a drink in x years, just do what I did.' But I also think in such a conversation "I had one beer after ten years blah blah blah" would probably come up because it's a significant part of his personal story.

And yet, depending on who you're talking to, it might not be helpful at all to that person to say 'I had one beer and never went back.' To that extent, you're getting into an argument about whether there is a such a thing as a good lie, and how much liberty you're allowed to bend or leave out the truth for someone else's benefit.

imo it's a case by case situation, even though I strongly lean to just being honest as a good policy.

It's not lying if in his mind, one drink doesn't affect sobriety.....

yes, that seems to be his view.
if i were to have one drink, though, it would say to me something drastic about the 'sobriety' which preceded it and 'allowed' that drink to happen.

If he is in AA, and is "grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty", and then accepts a chip for 11 years continuous sobriety, well, I don't see how that will work. Where is the rigorous honesty?

If he believes in his own mind that he didn't relapse, it is not much of a hop to believeing he is not alcoholic. Whatever he chooses to believe will not change the truth. It may not affect anyone else, but such a deception (by ommision) would be impossible for me to live with. It sounds more like denial than any rational point of view. Time will tell.

welcome >>>

to the newcomers who didn't introduce themselves
to anyone drunk at the meeting
to anyone drinking between meetings
to anyone who relapsed and didn't reset their sobriety date
to anyone smoking dope and claiming a sobriety date
to anyone using pills and claiming a sobriety date


i sure as hell didn't stop drinking at my first meeting!

you get it ....

welcome everyone!

:You_Rock_

:thanks