Some of us us are sicker than others. Early on I had a meeting I was going to that just about made me quit AA and it was mainly because of who I perceived as the group leader. I shopped around and ended up with two meetings I really like. I go twice a week and only to those two meetings. Good recovery and very little drama. Don't let a small group make you sour. They aren't worth it.

Not everyone at AA is good at explaining their thoughts, or presenting opinion as just that. And some meetings are def better than others, and at smaller meetings there are not many people available to take on the role of secretary or other service positions. These roles are simply filled by volunteer members of AA who have the required sobriety time, who are agreed by the people who treat the meeting as their home group.

(The word dry-drunk makes me shudder, as I got into a dry drunk phase myself - just sitting in AA meetings, not doing any work on my recovery and just waiting for other people's sobriety to rub off on me. It was very, very painful, and at it's worse I can honestly say that I wanted to die. Thankfully I realised where I was going wrong and got a sponsor and started doing my step work and things started to improve quite quickly. Phew!! I couldn't have stood that much fear; anger and resentment much longer sober.)

From my experience the combination of AA and SR is more effective in maintaining and having a more quality sobriety.

Just cause a person is sober and goes to meetings doesn't mean they won't get any thoughts of drinking, even with a sponsor and working the 12 steps!

There are no absolutes with sobriety! Nothing is guaranteed!

You can find judgement anywhere you go. Absolutely nothing is all good or all bad. My experience has been that I need to approach all with an open mind but know that not everyone operates the same way. In any case, find what works for you and stick to it. I have found support in many many places and forms. It's always good to have back up options! Take care. Congrats on the 2 yrs!

One fact was learned many years ago, long before the internet, is I didn’t know what I didn’t know.
The next one that was pressed into my mind is I can’t get drunk if I don’t pick up the first drink.
Many other facts from sober oldtimers led me on a path of recovery of being sober and helping others, even just showing up at my home meetings.

In my opinion being active by making coffee, chairing meetings, cleaning up, talking to newcomers, speaking at the podium and on and on helped me in recovery one day at a time in a row. The main thing in my opinion is it helped me to not isolate which is probably an alcoholic’s biggest reason for failure.
Just don’t drink over it.

BE WELL

I thought it was resentments. Oh no she didn't just say that! ; )

I remember when I had a stint in rehab a few years ago, within one minute of meeting me, an AA 'leader' telling me to sell all my assets to pay for a 28 program when I made the point I have bills to pay and a family to take care of. When another group member agreed I had a point he became very agressive.

Anyway, I think there are many paths to sobriety depending on the individual.
(I don't know how much weight this carries given I relapsed yesterday and am on day 1 again today but I have and am in a much better place than I was years ago using other methods)

I really do not think it is wise or fair to condemn or embrace any large group of people based on one members opinions.

AA literally saved my life and has kept me sober for almost six years. The paths to sobriety are varied but condemnation without thorough investigation serves no one.

Regardless everyones' opinions( except mine of course, lol) I think essentially it all boils down to deciding for one's self to stop drinking and resolve to never again pick up 'that' first drink. "Oldtimers" and those who enjoy abstinence have in common that individual resolve and practice it, yes ?
As to the OP , even after two yrs (congrats, thats awesome :) ) thoughts are just thoughts they can and do proceed action, but action is not inevitable it still remains a choice. What are your plans for future alcohol use ?

The problem is I have met a lot of alcoholics who decided not to drink again.

I've met fewer that managed it.

Saying you can't get drunk if you don't drink the first drink is a fact. But. Not a very useful one.

Just IMHO.

Easilypleased- You have a great user name! What a great perspective on life. I'm going to remember to be 'easily pleased' in the future. It seems like such a joyful approach to life.

Regarding your experience at the meeting, it is unfortunate and potentially dangerous that someone said that to you. I'm glad that you responded by feeling more committed to sobriety. I can imagine that some people might have given up and said, "I might as well drink then." You are obviously very committed to sobriety.

I've been to lots of different meetings (12-step and non-12-step), and people have said all sorts of unhelpful things to me. I struggle with how to respond sometimes. (I've also met really cool people at meetings.)

I don't like the term 'dry drunk'. It seems like a way to judge other people's sobriety. Of course, some people have serious issues even during sobriety and they need more help, but at least they are sober. I cannot imagine a situation where drinking would be better than not drinking.

I have almost three years sober (and once had 16 years sober). I sometimes attend meetings, and sometimes skip meetings for long periods of time. Occasionally, I have cravings or thoughts about alcohol. Sometimes, those cravings/thoughts get troublesome. Last fall, I intensely struggled with cravings and went to meetings. Therapy has helped me a lot. And SR. There are so many ways to recover.

I hope you find the support you need to work through the thoughts about alcohol. For me, it helps to think about what is triggering the thoughts and what I want to get from alcohol (fun, freedom, etc.) and find other ways to get those things. I hope you find what works for you!

Thank you, very kind words. I'm doing just that, I'm looking at what was triggering those thoughts.

I am back feeling strong and happy now though, my AV has taken another blow, it will be back though, it always comes back :(

Thanks for all your comments.

I can see this happening too, Lighter. Someone who has not yet removed that label from themselves could easily go against a previously made promise to sobriety. This is what alcoholics do, after all, don't they? They drink and they just can't help themselves. Being addicted to the stuff is as good a reason as any to fail to stay sober.

I think rejecting alcoholism in thought and act, and in addition in self-identity is important. That's what I did.

If this is not what you meant, then you have met one more.

Not useful? OMG it is probably what every successful program stresses.

That’s something I’ll try to understand because it came from the internet!

BE WELL

I've built my recovery on that premise.
I find it incredibly useful - fundamental, in fact :)

If I were to drink again it would because my recovery maintenance is lacking, not because I label myself an alcoholic :)



I have no quarrel with either of you guys or what you believe - I simply see things differently.

I think it's genuinely wonderful (and wondrous) we can all reach the same summit by such varied paths :)

D

^^^ Yes! I haven't tried AA yet, but will soon. That bloke sounds like an a-hole...maybe try a different group.

But then, 2 years sober is a hell of an achievement, and you did it your own way. Bravo!

It's not useful, in my opinion, because it doesn't stop you drinking.

Sooner or later every problem drinker, on every single path and whether or not an alcoholic comes to the realization they have to stop drinking or drinking too much.

So many of them don't.

So many people go for a year, five, twenty years then start drinking again.

The realization that you can't drink is of no value until you are willing to put the work in that stops you actually drinking. Just IMHO.

Hello Ep.
Great on two.
Millions of us have done it without AA.

She has every right to come on here and complain about something she heard at a meeting. That's an awful thing to say to someone who has TWO YEARS sobriety. She's obviously doing something right. And that is not some strange isolated event. You hear it all the time. Didn't AA coin the term "dry drunk?"

I've done sobriety completely on my own and feel there is a "support" element missing. That being said there are other ways like rational recovery and smart and women for sobriety. Or even try a different AA meeting. But congrats again. 2 years is amazing!

I can't speak for Dee or others, however, I think what you might be missing here is that this was a pivotal and critical realization. The work thereafter hinges on acceptance of this premise.

That was a only a selective quote, not the whole statement from which this was taken. I had provided more context.

My full statement was this
Do you see 'recovery maintenance' in opposition to 'rejecting alcoholism in thought and act'? I don't. I see all three aspects as being important.

I think that attempting to 'maintain recovery' while under the self identification of alcoholism is an unnecessary complication. That was my meaning, Dee.

Second ( and final ) reminder folks...please keep personal arguments and/or debates about the validity of any particular recovery method out of the open forums. We are here to help each other, not argue about who's recovery method is better or worse.

I am over two years sober without AA. I rely on SR and the friends I have made here. That is not to say AA has not helped millions of people it was jut not for me.

I need simple for my recovery. Don't drink the first drink is about as simple as it gets. What my BAC after eating with 4 drinks in me 90 minutes after consumption is way too complicated. I simply stay away from the first drink and then I don't have to concern myself with the higher math!

A member posted this about a month ago in a thread - perhaps you recall lighter?

"I've been thinking about this step...

I'm a blackout drunk. I know that. I know that if I drink a single shot, then I'll drink until I vomit and black out.

But I haven't taken that first drink for six years... so am I powerless over alcohol?

I think I am. Even though I can choose to not drink the only way I can do it on my own isn't healthy. It hurts me, hurts those around me. Replacing alcohol with other addictions, isolating, lying, being irresponsible. Being not as good a human as I could be. In its own way just giving up drink by my own willpower is just a slower death sentence...

So, I'm powerless over alcohol.

And my life was unmanageable even before I took my first drink... "

Good advice, imo.....regardless of program.
I thanked this useful post today coincidentally :)

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post5379828

If you think about it we're all at different mile markers, on different roads trying to get to the same destination. Some of us may get lucky and reach our destination without much trouble. Others may keep taking wrong turns, keep getting lost and need to stop and ask for directions. The exact same directions may not always be best if we're all starting from different locations but you have to admit some type of road map makes the trip easier.

Apologies if you felt misquoted FS.

Let me try and rephrase my sticking point:

I don't see my accepting the mantle of alcoholic as antithetical to 'rejecting alcoholism in thought and act'.

I actually found my acceptance of 'being alcoholic' to be fundamental to my recovery and not an unnecessary complication.

It's empowering, not limiting for me. :)

Do I see 'recovery maintenance' in opposition to 'rejecting alcoholism in thought and act'?

No I don't
I'm not sure why thought I might? :)

Like I said - many paths, same mountain.
We're both sober and happily so.

pax vobiscum :)

D

DOnt let one bad apple spoil what can be a great program. im NA myself. there can be some woderfully spiritual people in meetings. but do keep in mind you are walking into a room full of sick people trying to get better.

For me AA, NA, SR, what really matters is what u take form any of them and how you apply it to you life.

if it was me my sponsor would probably ask why what he said mattered so much at all? to be honest hes just some guy at a meeting. dont give him the keys to your car. he doesnt speak for AA at all.

Et *** spiritu tuo, D. Glad the melon is feeling better.

You're possibly missing the fact that I didn't think that I was an alcoholic when I gave up drinking? It took me several years after I gave up drinking to get to that point in my personal development.