In common usage, faith healing refers to notably overt and ritualistic practices of communal prayer and gestures (such as laying on of hands) that are claimed to solicit divine intervention in initiating spiritual and literal healing. I looked it up. Divine intervention seems to be the key concept here.

Self empowerment, while it does concern a faith in one's own ability to change harmful behaviour, doesn't seem to fit this definition, Dee.

The point is raised, if alcoholism is a disease, then faith healing and the solicitation of divine intervention would seem to be a curious approach.

I know what faith healing is :)
That definition doesn't fit AA either, FS.

D

My reading of that comment (the dark ages one) was simply that not a lot of research has been done on the "science" of treating alcoholism.

Maybe I read it wrong too, but it made me think about nutritional approaches to treating addiction (as well as acupuncture, detox treatment, pharmaceuticals to ease anxiety, maybe someday even something which pinpoints & acts upon the very specific alcoholic gene - the disease...)

We are still using "faith" (thus "faith-healing") a malady that is considered a disease. There might be additional treatments someday.

.

Some believe in "faith healing" and "divine intervention" while others believe that their sybaritic inner beast and the voice in their head led them to overindulging.
I guess we alcoholics are a weird bunch...:c041:

http://ct.weirdnutdaily.com/ol/wn/sw...d96b331f05.jpg

I don't think I did - not in the sense you insist on using :)

I responded to Lacey.

My assertion was that faith is a common element in any recovery, FS.

The things we have faith in may not always be the same, but the faith is the common strand.

D

This is what keeps me coming back. As a result I am becoming more self-reflective, open minded and responsible. It hasn't kept me sober the entire time I have been going, but I at least have some hope within my heart/mind.

If I were at a meeting and the word 'Jesus' were being thrown about liberally by more than one person, on a single occasion, I would walk out. There is NO PLACE for Jesus in the fellowship as a collective. What an individual chooses to hold on to is their own decision, but to assign the very religion that many newcomers are seeing in the steps (ie with the western understanding of the word 'god') is actually going to hinder new members in coming back.

I don't live in the USA, but find it startling to hear that some groups recite a christian prayer ('Our Father who art in Heaven etc'). This goes against the 'not allied with any sect, politics, religion, organisation' preamble. How would they feel if started a meeting and recited a passage from the Quran each week, I wonder.

faith
noun \ˈfāth\

: strong belief or trust in someone or something

: belief in the existence of God : strong religious feelings or beliefs

: a system of religious beliefs


So yes, first definition can be related to sobriety without theology. Having faith in one's self, or in the collective wisdom of a fwellowship, or a behavioural workshop.

That's good to ponder, thanks Dee. It will help me get over the misconception of 'faith' as being a religious concept.

It really depends on which meeting you attend. My home group does not talk about Jesus, the Bible or close with the Lord's prayer.

Just to go meta a bit, I'm wondering what fuels these conversations? If something isn't working for you, try something else. And something else again. And if none of those things "works", mebbe ask yourself if you're the problem. Or don't -- what do I care whether what works for me works for you?

AA/not AA, cult/no cult, faith in a spiritual solution or scientific one -- and most people's ideas about science are faith-based, especially about medical and psychological sciences -- does the back-and-forth improve your experience of life? Or is it just feeding your ego? Or passing the time between urges?

Me, I'm here because my blocker shut me out of computer solitaire. :)

I guess my concern is that we (AA) are all one fellowship right, whether we're in Nebraska or Nepal. So a faction of the fellowship that I am a part of is conducting christian-flavoured meetings under the Alcoholics Anonymous trademark. I fail to understand how this is even allowed. I mean 'god' can refer to anything that the speaker assigns to it, as I'm discovering through a buddhist peer/mentor, but the Lord's Prayer is wholly a biblical reference.

What's the problem with dialogue between people, especially considering it's about people ultimately trying to work their way in to a program that leaves a lot of people feeling isolated because of the appearance of it being a christian program? There's nothing to be gained by silencing open discussion.

Open inquisitiveness may actually save some lives. Please allow those with questions to feel free to speak without fear of ostracism. It's hard enough for newcomers without there being an inference that their questions will be censored or dismissed.

I'm not comparing alcoholism to cancer, I am saying imagine a doctor prescribing meetings and talking to "cure" any other disease or ailment.... that is what's asinine. That in the 21st century we are still using a 1930's "cure" with a pitiful 5% success rate to combat a very real problem. Great if AA worked for you. You are one of the lucky few.

You're just buying in to the anti-AA propaganda that pollutes the internet, without understanding how that figure was reached. Do you know the variables in that percentile? Do you know the process in which the calculation was done? Have you even thought about the impossibility in reaching a success rate figure in a group that holds no member records, requires no regular attendance, includes people who don't succeed for the first few times etc? 5% is a bogus figure.

Have you ever heard of psychotherapy?

My bad. But though I put a dismissive spin on my words -- default tone of my alcoholism which you picked up, but sarcasm is a long way from censorship -- the question was in earnest. The threads on this particular topic on SR, which is usually a very tolerant place, generally devolve into trench warfare quickly -- people lobbing their opinions like grenades from fixed positions.

I'm an atheist. Not an agnostic, not a fence-sitter, not a philosopher of science -- an atheist.

I go to AA. Sometimes people mention god in meetings. Some of them even believe in a god. People have believed in various gods since prehistory. I don't expect anything different, especially when they're also talking about the most important things in the world to them -- sobriety, life, death, insanity, fear, joy....Sometimes people use the phrase "higher power." I don't, but I certainly admit there are powers higher than myself. Lots of 'em.

One other thing I always wonder -- and then I'll stop this rant -- why are we atheistical alcoholics so high and mighty that they can't stoop to be talked at by anyone with religion? When did we get so all-fired up & proud? When I was drinking, I'd have gone to confession to find a bottle in the booth, and I wasn't too proud to do a lot worse than that.

Ah, I've answered my own question. AA-related rants are fun! :lmao

That was the funniest thing on this thread http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...phy-smiley.gif

Firstly - the preamble specifically states (well the meetings in my city do anyway) that AA is not allied with any religion. The wholesale promotion of Jesus goes against the very essence of the program. People have every right to criticize those whose motivation is to bring christianity into AA.

Secondly, you can speak for yourself about your own experiences before and after your sobriety. For me (and many others I speak to) it's entirely the opposite to what you suggest in your 'high & mighty' retort. As a drunk, I would actively seek out fundamentalist christians and devour them with my 'intelligent atheism' (note my reference to my own ego there). Today I would do nothing of the sort.

Since finding AA, I am softening my viewpoints considerably. Sure, *I* still think the notions are ridiculous, but I'm learning that it's not for me to say what someone can cling to if it brings them happiness. I am also opening up to a more spiritual outlook on humanity, and how my existence impacts the universe around me. It may be a bit 'hippy' for some, but there's a rich stream of 'religion' that I have started to tap in to. While AA itself may not be illuminating me to this wisdom, had it not been for walking through those doors, I would not be on the path towards inner peace.

I'm even starting to think I've cracked what this whole religious business is about, but this is not the thread for such discussion.

"the programme of suggestions in the Big Book is seen as almost a Holy Text."
I brought this up at a meeting once. I also said I felt the founder was just a human being with lots of faults and I was troubled by him being treated and quoted as if he were the messiah. I was treated to a 45 minute quote filled lecture from an old timer. Oops!
It was my last meeting.
Did learn some things and meet some good people though. The guy who used to sponsor me really helped me out in early recovery. Didn't say much but was a real good listener. It's what I needed at that point, I guess.
So yeah take what you need. Also keep an open mind and do some investigation into other methods. I read a lot and use what info I feel works for me.

Jeez, this is like crack cocaine. Or Lays potato chips. Which pinhead's atheism has more dancing angels? You and everyone else on this adorably relatively uncensored forum have the right to criticize anyone and anything, provided you don't use any &#*!! words. I as a member of same forum have a right to come right back attcha. Rights are fun like that.

I always do.

I'm going to rest on my laurels, having given Carlotta a chuckle. I promise now to stay off this thread, and thank the group for leading me to ponder the mystery of the persistence of faith in our species, when we are otherwise such perfectly reasonable apes.