|
Good to see you back Robby :) D |
Cliff notes anyone? Thanks |
I think I seeing our point of differentiation. You was able to pivot base on experiential evidences and analysis and conclusions. Which I also has all that. But I wanting my preponderance to be senses or feeling. I waiting to feel something that move me to choose sobriety. Certainly I got all the knowledge and observations and conclusions in my head. Even when I say, I not want to die, I want to live, is not any emotion to make real these facts. I can detach from bad thoughts, but not can attach to good thoughts. I can detach from bad behaviors, but not attach to good behaviors. (which why it easy to go back/forth.) I not feel responsibility or worth or faith about one choice over another, is all intellectual concepts and the intellectual concepts does not have any weight of preponderance to me. I not in any way moved viscerally to get sober, nor has I been able to think my way sober thought I has try really fricking hard. FYI, I still doing my AA and therapist and sponsor and case manager and not currently drinking, so no worries too much for me, I just looking for way to make any of it to seem "real." |
I think you have come a long way...perhaps with some more time things will seem more real. |
I sure didn't "feel" my early sobriety, you know. I felt beat up, used and suicidal psychotic to be honest. When I quit I was entirely delusional on what side was up. Toasted. I could barely speak to others and when I did they wished I hadn't. Schizophrenic. Cow, you're way more functional with others than I was when I quit. I was jobless and homeless. My parents let me crash at their place whenever and that in itself was a nuthouse of sorrows. I think you waiting for feelings of sobriety to make everything jell isn't going to happen and its just wasted time, okay? Sorry, don't mean to be fresh with you, but how can someone as yourself who understands the limits of their ability to feel positive and joy wait around for feelings of whatever?? All I had when I got sober was a belly full of hurt, a heart full of hate, and a mind full of despair. I had given up on feeling good years before I ever finally quit... You surprise me with your lack of clarity, my good friend Cow. :hug: Good to hear you're not drinking. Seriously awesome. :) |
Originally Posted by Cow
(Post 5159235)
...FYI, I still doing my AA and therapist and sponsor and case manager and not currently drinking, so no worries too much for me, I just looking for way to make any of it to seem "real." |
Originally Posted by Cow
(Post 5159235)
Certainly I got all the knowledge and observations and conclusions in my head. Even when I say, I not want to die, I want to live, is not any emotion to make real these facts. I think you waiting for feelings of sobriety to make everything jell isn't going to happen and its just wasted time, okay? Sorry, don't mean to be fresh with you, but how can someone as yourself who understands the limits of their ability to feel positive and joy wait around for feelings of whatever?? )[/QUOTE] The decision to die is the emotional decision. There's no rationale to that. The decision to live is a rational, non-emotional decision. The joy of that rational decision comes after. After, because doing the work necessary to change and live is hard. It comes, I promise. |
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
(Post 5158929)
In a practical sense and to make a long story short, I had to lie to myself that I was sure I would make it. I had two grandmothers. One was a narcissistic, toxic, joy-devouring b**ch. The other was optimistic to the extreme, the glass wasn't half full; it was FULL to the brim. It didn't matter how screwed up my life was at the time, she was always so proud of me and how great I was doing. I use to joke to people that she was pathologically cheerful. But now, in retrospect, I see a kind of method to her madness. It wasn't that she didn't have any sorrows or hardships in her life. She did. But she always chose to be happy, and to see the good in everyone and everything. She chose. Even though I'm surrounded by piles of problems, I can chose to believe it's all going to work out. Even if I am sad or angry -- even if I feel numb -- I can still choose to get my butt out of bed, plaster a smile on my face, brush my teeth (Cow, I struggle with personal hygiene too), put one foot in front of the other and do the things I intellectually know I need to do to be healthy (mentally, physically). Am I just going thru the motions? Yes, sometimes. But gradually over time, I am pleasantly surprised to discover that the fake smile often turns into a real one. And the "motions" become habits, which lead to real change. |
Good morning, Cow. Rise and shine. You are loved. Persevere, dear. It gets better. I believe you'll be able to say that and mean it one of these days. |
I waiting to feel something that move me to choose sobriety. This is it ! You found it. Your "BOTTOM LINE" . This is your eternal escape clause and your perpetual reason for repetitive self sabotage. I get it Cow. My f it moment turned into an f it month. But Robby is so right. You already know your preponderance for actually feeling anything good is slim to none as per your anhedonia, so why let that be your defining statement in regards to you chosing to get sober ? For me, it would be because I could always use that as my penultimate excuse to drink. What's the use ? Life's just gonna suck anyways so I might as well be stoned. And that makes your bottom line really not all that different then the rest of us drunks. (((((((COW)))))) |
Originally Posted by jerri11
(Post 5159633)
...Even though I'm surrounded by piles of problems, I can chose to believe it's all going to work out. Even if I am sad or angry -- even if I feel numb -- I can still choose to get my butt out of bed, plaster a smile on my face, brush my teeth (Cow, I struggle with personal hygiene too), put one foot in front of the other and do the things I intellectually know I need to do to be healthy (mentally, physically). Am I just going thru the motions? Yes, sometimes. But gradually over time, I am pleasantly surprised to discover that the fake smile often turns into a real one. And the "motions" become habits, which lead to real change. But that's the way the cookie sometimes crumbles. |
We are going to have bad days. That is the rich warp and weave of Life. I guess I got to the point I didn't want the bad days to define my life. I got to the point, with therapy and I suppose some maturity, I could believe the bad days would pass. The bad feelings could and would pass. That I had the ability to rise above it. I didn't have to stay emotionally moored to the crap. I don't have to drink to escape because I truly know its going to pass. It was hard! I do think that daily, written out by hand gratitude list my sponsor required helped me get into a Habit of Mind. I used to hum "Always Look On the Bright Side of Life" while imagining that last scene in "Life of Brian." it always makes me laugh. Still. Today it's easier for me believe the bad stuff is going to pass. I also know I can work to make it better. Some days it was minute by minute, hour by hour. but today, over seven years later, I know. And I can continue in Sobriety. Love from Lenina |
Originally Posted by alphaomega
(Post 5159799)
I waiting to feel something that move me to choose sobriety. This is it ! You found it. Your "BOTTOM LINE" . This is your eternal escape clause and your perpetual reason for repetitive self sabotage. I get it Cow. My f it moment turned into an f it month. But Robby is so right. You already know your preponderance for actually feeling anything good is slim to none as per your anhedonia, so why let that be your defining statement in regards to you chosing to get sober ? Anyways, I trying. I will just pretend I a real Borg and sobriety my programming and I not suppose to has any emotion so stop wish for that. And every night I will return to my cube, another day useless energy spent, and every day I will get up and hope to catch glimpse of that sexy Captain Picard ...before I dispassionately assimilates him. PS. Robot: "You surprise me with your lack of clarity, my good friend Cow." Ah, that nicest way anybody ever call me a dumbass. :kiss: |
being positive takes practice and time. something we don't like, we want that quick fix. Keep moving forward, Moo Friend!!!! |
Originally Posted by trachemys
(Post 5159545)
The decision to die is the emotional decision. There's no rationale to that. The decision to live is a rational, non-emotional decision. The joy of that rational decision comes after. After, because doing the work necessary to change and live is hard. It comes, I promise. Still though, I have been so burnt out emotionally that I was effectively dead emotionally, and I couldn't have cared one way or the other about living and dying. These rough times though were always an intimate and personal struggle, and the dying was winning when I succumbed to my alcoholism. Sobriety eventually freed me from being in lock-step with my desires for self-destruction. When for whatever reason I am out of touch with my feelings, my life experiences have less importance to me. I believe our friend Cow struggles with being out of touch feeling-wise on a horrific scale of misery. I have had such times myself, and yet there it is - such times - its not like I suffered with severe anhedonia. (((Cow))) I believe in YOU. :hug: |
Cow, I went through a hellacious period of self-loathing, anger, misery, and hopelessness during my first year of sobriety. I call that my "growing up" stage. Because it seemed I was hit with an onslaught of rapid maturation, and perhaps it was maturation that had been postponed by ten years of drinking. It seemed I was experiencing in a year's time what might have happened over a five or ten year period for a sober person. Some people go through less hell that I did, some go through much more. You are somewhere on that continuum. Sometimes you just put one foot in front of the other and walk aimlessly onward, with no end in mind. It can seem futile. It's not though. Just don't give up. |
Still haven't smoked Cow! No sugar yet either and it's been about 5 days. I am trying to put it out of my mind and create a new reality where there is no such thing as cigs and donuts and eating a whole box of peanut butter puffs in one sitting without any milk. I think trying to wean myself off the Effexor is kicking my ass tho. Even though it is keeping weight on me it does help and yesterday I got sick from withdrawal. Maybe a rethink on that one. As soon as my brain resets the nicotine and sugar receptors I can get used to my new normal. for as attached as I was to my whiskey cokes I could give a crap less about them now. It's crazy what a person can get used to and then un-used to but then used to again if you pick up. I love your attitude jerrie11!!! I like selection bias for how we frame things. The nice grandma was on to something. |
there's peanut butter puffs? Um, where? Just in case. Be careful with the Effexor. I hear it's a rough detox, I hope you're doing this with medical supervision. I couldn't take that med, I puked my guts out. XXOO Lenina |
Go SILENT !!! You are one helluva strong broad !!! Fight for yourself gurlfran XO AO |
Good on you SR! SJ, I not have any self loathings or self blame or guilt or these type of thing. I guess is one blessing of anhedonia. Or maybe not, is same double edge sword, you not able to feel bad about self, but not able to feel good about self either. Well tonight is AA night. 1.5 hour meeting with sponsor (and yes, I still lie to her --see above about how I not feel bad about it). I did reading and Step 1 worksheet. Then is Atheist/Agnostic meeting after that. Sponsor did no make me admit I powerless, which (aside from god thing) was other big AA problem for me, I love what this group do instead. This from worksheet: Some agnostics, atheists, and freethinkers in AA reject the idea that they are completely powerless over alcohol. They acknowledge that their alcoholism has reduced them to a seemingly hopeless state and they need the fellowship of AA to help them recover. However, they suspect they may yet have inner resources from which they can draw to aid that recovery, even if they're not completely sure what those inner resources may be. Do you think this is true for you? To which I answers: Hmm, is power an emotion? I not think so. I think is maybe just a sensation or something you command or claim. Maybe I focus on power and put aside wanting of emotion. Maybe I focus intellect on task of commanding power better. Maybe that where I weasel my way in to some kind of control and direction that give me at least feedback that could be experience as "positive." ...Oh that very tricksy, I like it. Yes. I has no problem to admit to being out of control, crazy, irrational, sick, and unable to manage this myself. But I never like AA notion that you powerless. Because I not think is ever really true. You maybe lost or detached or too sick or depress to tap into it, but it there, is not something that go away and come back, whatever it is, it just there. I think should be more about to help people find and strengthen their power. Because at end of the day, that is the fortitude that gonna keep you sober wherever you are, when no one else around. |
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:09 AM. |