Hmm. Well, I don't much believe your posted story is all that real either, so I guess we're starting off even, lol.

Alcoholism is not about how much or how little one person drinks or does nor drink. Back in my drinking days, it varied up and down, like most everything else in life, dynamics often rule hand-in-hand when opportunity comes knocking. Now well into my sober days, I don't drink at all. Weirdly, not drinking at all is still something different for me because I'm an alcoholic, you see. From what I gather from your post Jason, is you seem to be saying that alcoholism dosen't exist, or is exaggerated, or whatever. I haven't drank for decades now, and yet I'm still a dyed-in-the-wool alcoholic, so I guess we can assume you and I don't agree on what alcoholism is or even what it isn't. Since you've commented on a sober recovery site, you have in turn now invited comments from members and quite a few of us are recovered alcoholics. :)

Drinking everyday at 17 yrs old is what it is. I do know you just didn't pick up one day and start drinking everyday for nothing. Theres always a justified reason for that kind of alcoholic drinking. You don't say why you drank to the point of never being sober on weekends. Never being sober on weekends is quite the trick, yeah? Sounds like tough times to me, and for me it was, you know?!

So one day, also for justified reasons, you decided to drink less. Great. This is not new or unusual in the experiences of many alcoholics. Most of us had often cut back in our drinking experiences. Cutting back is just a normal thing in alcoholism, is my experience and my understanding of many others experiences. Like I said, its not about quantity.

Cutting back didn't change anything for me though because I still drank, even though less times, and less quantity those times. Eventually though I would have times when i again drank too much. It would happen. The real point is that I was still drinking, so in that way i was justified into believing I could moderate and control my drinking. Well, I was just being a fool, you know.

Why can't everybody just drink normally after drinking everyday (as you say) for ten yrs from age 17 to age 27? I don't know that answer, and even if I did, it would again be a justified answer, peculiar to the prevailing subjective circumstances over those ten years. Justified answers are a dime a dozen, you know. Talk is cheap is what I'm saying. People may often make some things up to give their story legs, you know? Lying is more art then fact, is my own subjective experience. Been there too, haha ha. :)

Anyways. Where are we? Oh yeah, so since quantity is never of importance, and the timing is also never of importance, then what is?

Not drinking is important, imo. Drinking is less important then not drinking. Not drinking is a for sure result of free choice. Drinking is a managed choice, an often valued choice, a risky choice, a desired choice.

Do I desire to not drink? NO.
Do I risk whatever by not drinking? NO.
Did I manage my past drinking choices? YES.
Is desire for alcohol a choice for recovered alcoholics? NO.
Can an actively drinking alcoholic choose to quit? YES
Choose to slow down cut back? YES
Choose to go on the wagon? YES
Do guys who drink make up stories? HELL YES
Do guys who don't drink make up stories? ABSOLUTELY

Yeah, Jason.

Like i said, its not about quantity. I haven't drank for decades, and I still, as defined by AA, have within me the illness of alcoholism. I started drinking age 12 and was fubar by age 15. Two years before you started daily drinking I was already gonzo. I finally quit for good age 24. Awesome for me.

I tried what you say is 'now' working ie so-called normal drinking. It didn't work for me. I don't believe its gonna work for you either. If you really did drink 'everyday' for ten years, you'll be getting back into it sooner then later, if you continue with your 'normal drinking'. Its only gonna take some clever additional justifications, and imo, you'll return to everyday drinking and worse. Is that alcoholism you're now experiencing? YES, in my informed opinion, it is an example of alcoholism. Do I know what I'm talking about? Well, I think I do, lol. :)

Stay cool, Jason.
Welcome to SR. Happy New Year!

I think one of the key differences that changed in my mind was that I realized I needed to seek help when I was sober, not just when I had drank. I always found that harder, because when I was drunk and in a mess... I could say this is why I can't manage... this is why I need help. To ask for help sober, that was different because my will was saying i'm ok, and i'm weak if can't manage. I think alcoholism wants us to do that.. it wants us to find no other solution to how were feeling except by open a can of beer or bottle of spirits. Sorry I've gone off topic a bit there.

The only thing I believe is that the OP got the response he was looking for. It's best to ignore anyone coming to an addiction recovery site saying addiction isn't real.

I think it's best to eventually ignore them if they keep on posting the same junk after they have received responses of help. You're right, this site is about recovery, but I also think ignorance can often kill in its own way too.

Personally, I see what Jason posted as an appeal for help. I guess we'll find out one way or another. In any case, he came to the right place, no big deal for us. :)

Made me lol right off the bat. :D

I would love to hear your wife's side of the story.

The Big Book doesn't use the word 'disease'. this is a misconception on the part of many in AA, including myself for a few years.

The Big Book uses the words 'malady' or 'illness', which though may be similar, are not the same.

Bill Wilson stated when asked about the disease model, "We have never
called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a
disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease.
Instead, there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of
them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore, we did not
wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing
alcoholism a disease entity. Therefore, we always called it an illness,
or a malady - a far safer term for us to use."

not an alocoholic but taking time to be here on this support group?

Awesome!
Welcome :)

I really feel compelled to comment because this could have been my story. I did moderate several times but never for 2.5 years. I kept this game up for weeks at a time until I just had one blow out night that led to drinking heavily again. It's why I know that moderation doesn't work for me.

The OP mentioned a wedding with too many shots. Was this a compulsion to drink that much? If you know it isn't for you, why did you do it? I hope you had a hotel room or a DD.

It took me a long time of "moderating" and quitting to get to my 26 days. It's still new to me.

The other side is he hasnt exactly given it up yet either. He could try giving it up for good and see if its still so simple. I'd hope it is.

I can sortof see his side. I really dont understand people with food addictions the only way i can try too is if i try and relate my alcohol addiction as if it was a food addiction then i start to say yeah ok i can see how your addicted to sweets in a bad way.

That being said why come posting here if you dont have an issue. whats the sense in it.

Doesn't sound like you are an alcoholic. Good for you! But because you as an individual are not an alcoholic it does not exist? I hope you do not have cancer either but do you believe that it can exist without you having it?
If you are curious about your ability to moderate you can research the heavy drinker. They drank like alcoholics but have the ability to moderate when good enough reasons present themselves, ie hangover, wife, kid. Alcoholics have plenty of good reasons to moderate but cannot do so.
So you are right, Alcoholism does not exist for you. But it does exist. You can check the facts yourself in medical journals and books such as Under the Influence and Above the Influence. Just facts not individual opinions.

all i have to say is you are very lucky. that is one of the greatest risk factors of contracting HIV or Hep C. and i am glad you did not get it, both are chronic and progressive diseases.

I've never been to Australia, but I'm taking Dee's word that it exists. :)

Seriously, I'm glad the OP's drinking is under control, but the premise of this post is just silly.

And I'm pretty sure Midlifecrisis was joking there, playing off the OP's train of logic.

Oh gosh yes, I was joking! I picked the most obviously silly thing I could think of!

And yes,
Very lucky.

ok I get several of you think this is silly.

I disagree - I think this thread addresses questions most of us have thought about at some stage of our drinking careers.

So far, I think the responses - at least the ones not ragging on the OP - are worth the thread staying up.

D

isn't it fascinating, a mind that goes through all the trouble of finding a sobriety/recovery site specifically to post that the reason we're here isn't real?
trying to imagine why i might do it....:
-to convince myself i have no problem by being able to, in my mind, dismiss and shoot down every other view
-to do the opposite: hear others and have them hear me saying in a round-about way that looking for a recovery-place is a good idea, since clearly i have a problem
-a prank
-a determined "willpower is king and you people are all weak and someone like me will show you how it's done...."

hm.........

I wasn't calling questions about one's own drinking silly. I was calling attempts to question the existence of alcoholism silly.

Personally, I think that notion needs to be smacked down good and hard—precisely because so many addicts are looking for excuses to deny their own addiction.

Smack! Smack!

OK, I feel better. Moving on now...

I tried to do what you've done exactly every day since I was 19 years old, and I couldn't, and howdy did I try, every day; I failed, every day. Once I found the resources and solutions I got better 19 months ago, at the age of 52. 52-19=12,045 attempts! Maybe it's not a disease, I really don't care. What I do know is alcohol is cunning, baffling, powerful and patient. Count yourself as one of the few who was able o do it as you describe. One question, if you've done so well what brings you here to SR?

Ethyl alcohol is a colorless liquid with the molecular formula C2H6O, a boiling point of 78.73 C, vapor pressure of 5.95 kPa at 20 C, and is a psychoactive drug. It is inanimate and therefore cannot be cunning, baffling, power and or patient. I often wonder why people feel the need to anthropomorphise this particular liquid.

Correct it is the addictive mind that is cunning. I really don't give a **** if it is a disease or choice I only know I can't drink it with any sense of restraint.

Not sure what the rub is, here.

AA works for me. That's all I'm really concerned with...*My program*

If something else works for somebody else, cheers.

Zube

I think those of us that can relate to that anthropomorphism understand that it is not the actual clear, colorless liquid that is cunning, etc.... but rather it's effect and our response to it.... At least I do.

:)

People do the same with Cancer.

It is simply what people do.

Well. If it matters, I don't think it's a disease either.

oh boy, here we go...:a213:

Whether it is a disease or not it causes enough horrible problems for people and ruins lives. Does it really matter if you know it makes ones life difficult?

Interesting thread.

My take is that for each their personal perception becomes their reality and each of us only know what we can know and cannot know what we do not.

As I have aged and seen my own perceptions and realities change as I learn more about our universe and everything within I know how little I do know.

And so it goes... with our human selves arguing among ourselves about spirituality and whether it is a disease when clearly no one knows except God (if you believe in Him/Her/It :) )

The fact is that our perceptions are constantly filtered through our own thoughts, feelings, emotions and past experiences. We filter through our culture and upbringing and education.

It is a worthy reminder to offer ourselves to beware of our perceptions and conclusions. We are always wise when we soften judgment and allow compassion to shape our perceptions.... because there is the tiniest possibility that maybe we are not 100% right as we are so sure!

In my own case with alcoholism everything I used to argue about years ago I now know I was dead wrong...period. I won't go into it but I was an insufferable know it all just because I had an alcoholic family of origin and collect alcoholics by my own dysfunction (or used to anyway).

Do we really think we are going to figure out the most baffling disease (yes I do think it is a disease by some definations) on the planet? I mean...some of the brightest and most educated men and women on the planet are all over the place on this subject... as well as those of us who suffer from alcoholism from a personal standpoint.

Patience, tolerance and humility might be considered. Each must find their own path and their own way out. Some of us choose to let pain an consequences knock us about like a pinball machine because of our stubborness. That was me... but not anymore.

Frankly I don't know. But I can sure share some E, S and H on some incredible miracles I have witnessed... lots of them! if you want to do what they did... just ask me ;)

Do I think it's a disease?
Not really, but it can cause problems with body, mind, soul and affect everyone around you more negatively than any disease i know of. That being said, I would choose it over cancer any day. The cure is to quit drinking.

The Disease Model around addiction could keep medical academics in debate for days.

Here is one definition of disease:
"A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, esp. one that produces specific signs or symptoms.
A particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people".

All I Know is that my father died of alcoholism after being dry for over 10 years. I was headed the same way. I have also been to enough remote aboriginal communities where substance abuse has taken a generation to realize alcohol is as effective a disease as small pox, yellow fever or TB (which is one of reasons it was given to aboriginals by the early settlers). You won't find a single health worker in these places now that calls it anything other than a medical and a social disease.

Realizing my own alcoholism is a disease has actually helped me. For every incurable disease there is still a treatment. In this case complete abstinence backed up by faith, respect and honesty and some simple steps is working for me. Reading and hearing the stories of survival from others also makes me appreciate I'm not alone.